Gods Standard of Righteousness

[justbyfaith]

I unignored this person to make a point

Here he proves my point.

The only law written on stone is the ten commandments The rest of the law was written on parchment or whatever scrolls they used to write on back them.

Hence in his own words. He to states the standard is the law written in stone (the ten commands) which is so far below the standard we can not even begin to comprehend the magnitude of how sinful we are if we just use this as a guide.

The problem is he does not, nor does it appear he wants to, understand what true sin is. His go to verse is by the law is the knowledge of sin. But it is not comprehensive. I tried to explain it to him, But he did not want to hear.

Maybe @Charlie24 would like to discuss this. I know when I figured out this basic truth a few decades ago it changed my life. I stopped trying to follow commands. which I could never live up to Gods standard. And started loving others and serving them. My sin life shrunk, and I started to become more like Christ. Not because I was special or had any great power. But I understand the true means to sanctification. Take the love from God, and give it to others.

It is more blessed to give than to receive. this also became more real to me as I learned to stop focusing on how good I am by the law. and started to focus on giving and serving.

Rmans 7 is pauls struggle with the law. He wanted to do good because the law said he should , but he found he could not do this, So the law which was given to help him he found cursed him.. So he turned and learned to serve Christ. And stop being a pharisee (focus on obedience to the law)

He also found himself to be the chief of sinners. Even though he admitted himself. according to the law he was righteous (in the eyes of the religious jew)

I am not in disagreement with any of your statements here, @eternally-gratefull.

if we love one another we will fulfill the law...we will sin less and less.

That is basically all that I have been saying.

I have been emphasizing the fact that by the law is the knowledge of sin in practically every post.

By the law, I do not mean only the ten commandments, or even the 613.

I mean every moral tenet that is spoken of in holy scripture.

You yourself have admitted that there is no sin that isn't mentioned in holy scripture.

How, then, dos it take more than the law (what is spoken of in holy scripture concerning what is sin) to define for us what is sin?

 

[justbyfaith]

No, we are not following the Law in any way, remember that Christ fulfilled the Law for us.

By faith in Him we are given the righteousness that God demands but not of our own doing.

This is His Grace toward us, we are not righteous but He gives us that righteousness by faith in Christ.

Then our sanctification begins, the Holy Spirit begins to bring us up the position of our God-given righteousness.

Of course we will not reach the position of perfection in this life that God sees in us through faith in Christ.

We receive this perfection at the resurrection.

As far as the Law, we are aware of the Ten Commandments in this life, but we know we can't keep them perfectly.

This is where we die to self every day, we can't live the perfect Law, but Christ can live it through us.

We will still fail, but it is Christ that is fulfilling the righteousness of the Law in us.

It is total surrender to Christ and faith in Him that allows Him to live through us.

We will not be perfect in this life, but God doesn't expect perfection, He expects us to believe and surrender to Christ.

I do believe that, while no one can keep the letter of the law (Galatians 6:13), that the righteousness of the law can practically be fulfilled in us in a consistent manner when we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

We will continue to have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8, 1 Timothy 1:15, Jeremiah 17:9).

However, since indwelling sin is rendered dead within the sanctified believer (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8), the believer is not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12); it does not any longer have any say over his behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Therefore, committing sin is not inevitable in the life of the believer.

We can therefore walk consistently according to the Spirit for an extended period of time; even for the rest of our lives (Luke 1:74-75).

 

[justbyfaith]

if we love one another we will fulfill the law...we will sin less and less.

And is not sin the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), by definition?

 

[Charlie24]

I do believe that, while no one can keep the letter of the law (Galatians 6:13), that the righteousness of the law can practically be fulfilled in us in a consistent manner when we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

We will continue to have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8, 1 Timothy 1:15, Jeremiah 17:9).

However, since indwelling sin is rendered dead within the sanctified believer (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8), the believer is not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12); it does not any longer have any say over his behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Therefore, committing sin is not inevitable in the life of the believer.

We can walk consistently according to the Spirit for an extended period of time; even for the rest of our lives (Luke 1:74-75).

Yes we can, but note, for an extended period of time. We will never become perfect in this life.

What God wants from us is to reach the center of His will. How do we do this?

The center of God's will for all of us is having no known sin in our life, this is achievable for all believers.

This is done by allowing Christ to live through us by the guiding of the Holy Spirit, it is total surrender to Christ.

As you have said in a previous post, it is the Spirit that points out the sin, and by His power, if we cooperate, He will take this sin from us.

This is the process of sanctification, to slowly but surely create Christlikeness in us by the removal of sin.

 

[Charlie24]

Yes we can, but note, for an extended period of time. We will never become perfect in this life.

What God wants from us is to reach the center of His will. How do we do this?

The center of God's will for all of us is having no known sin in our life, this is achievable for all believers.

This is done by allowing Christ to live through us by the guiding of the Holy Spirit, it is total surrender to Christ.

As you have said in a previous post, it is the Spirit that points out the sin, and by His power, if we cooperate, He will take this sin from us.

This is the process of sanctification, to slowly but surely create Christlikeness in us by the removal of sin.

Let me make it clear right here so there is no misunderstanding that Charlie is preaching righteousness to the lowly crowd here on CC.

I have not reached the center of God's will in my life, I have known sin, in other words I am practicing sin in my life.

It is a constant sorrow in my life that I can't quit smoking cigarettes, I have not given it to Christ, it is shameful to admit this.

The reason I have told this is because I don't want anyone to think I am righteous over you by my posts. I am not, I'm a sinner saved by grace, a work in progress!

 

[justbyfaith]

How, then, dos it take more than the law (what is spoken of in holy scripture concerning what is sin) to define for us what is sin?

*does*

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes we can, but note, for an extended period of time. We will never become perfect in this life.

What God wants from us is to reach the center of His will. How do we do this?

The center of God's will for all of us is having no known sin in our life, this is achievable for all believers.

This is done by allowing Christ to live through us by the guiding of the Holy Spirit, it is total surrender to Christ.

As you have said in a previous post, it is the Spirit that points out the sin, and by His power, if we cooperate, He will take this sin from us.

This is the process of sanctification, to slowly but surely create Christlikeness in us by the removal of sin.

I believe that we can indeed become perfect in this life;

Not in the sense that we no longer have indwelling sin;

But in the sense that we no longer commit sins in the practical sense.

There are a few passages that tell me this specifically.

Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), 1 John 3:9;

1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6;

1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17;

Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10;

Romans 6:6, Colossians 2:11;

1 John 1:5, 1 John 3:5, 1 John 5:20.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/the-doctrine-of-entire-sanctification.202171/

 

[Charlie24]

I believe that we can indeed become perfect in this life;

Not in the sense that we no longer have indwelling sin;

But in the sense that we no longer commit sins in the practical sense.

There are a few passages that tell me this specifically.

Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), 1 John 3:9;

1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6;

1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17;

Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10;

Romans 6:6, Colossians 2:11;

1 John 1:5, 1 John 3:5, 1 John 5:20.

Paul told us plainly that he had not attained perfection, meaning he had not become sinless.

If the great apostle couldn't do it, there is not a chance any of us can!

Phil. 3:12

"Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus."

There is no such thing as sinless perfection in this life, but we can reach the goal of no know sin in our lives.

 

[Magenta]

Is not God's standard of righteousness the law?

Acts 13:38-39

 

[justbyfaith]

Paul told us plainly that he had not attained perfection, meaning he had not become sinless.

If the great apostle couldn't do it, there is not a chance any of us can!

Phil. 3:12

"Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus."

There is no such thing as sinless perfection in this life, but we can reach the goal of no know sin in our lives.

Paul actually said that as many as had become perfect (Philippians 3:15) ought to take on this attitude, that they had not apprehended "the resurrection from the dead", in context.

 

[peachyking]

There is no such thing as sinless perfection in this life, but we can reach the goal of no know sin in our lives.

How would you know one way or the other?

 

[Charlie24]

Acts 13:38-39

Paul actually said that as many as had become perfect ought to take on this attitude, that they had not apprehended "the resurrection from the dead", in context.

The perfection Paul is speaking of is Christ's perfection we receive by Grace through faith.

 

[Charlie24]

How would you know one way or the other?

We only have a down-payment on our salvation in this life, that is the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Our salvation is not complete until the resurrection, that is when we will become sinless.

Anyone who claims sinless perfection in this life is only fooling himself.

 

[peachyking]

We only have a down-payment on our salvation in this life, that is the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Our salvation is not complete until the resurrection, that is when we will become sinless.

Anyone who claims sinless perfection in this life is only fooling himself.

How would you know one way or the other?

 

[justbyfaith]

We only have a down-payment on our salvation in this life, that is the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Our salvation is not complete until the resurrection, that is when we will become sinless.

Anyone who claims sinless perfection in this life is only fooling himself.

And of course, "sinless" perfection is rejected by my doctrine. Because 1 John 1:8, 1 Timothy 1:15, and Jeremiah 17:9 are clear that we are not without sin as believers.

However, I believe that we can be "perfect" (Hebrews 10:14 (kjv)) apart from being "sinless".

In that sin, while it is not eradicated from the body, is rendered dead within the body (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14). Iow, we are not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12).

So, our practical walk can be perfected as we consistently walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:1,4) for the rest of our lives (Luke 1:74-75; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17).

 

[justbyfaith]

The perfection Paul is speaking of is Christ's perfection we receive by Grace through faith.

Which is not only imputed; but can also be imparted (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6, Matthew 5:20).

 

[Charlie24]

And of course, "sinless" perfection is rejected by my doctrine. Because 1 John 1:8, 1 Timothy 1:15, and Jeremiah 17:9 are clear that we are not without sin as believers.

However, I believe that we can be "perfect" (Hebrews 10:14 (kjv)) apart from being "sinless".

In that sin, while it is not eradicated from the body, is rendered dead within the body (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14). Iow, we are not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12).

So, our practical walk can be perfected as we consistently walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:1,4) for the rest of our lives (Luke 1:74-75; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17).

Paul said that "sin shall not have dominion over you." Sin has total dominion over the unbeliever, but not the believer.

We can be perfected as in progression, but not perfect in any way until the resurrection.

But we are perfect in the sight of God by faith in Christ, it is His righteousness that God sees and we are in Christ.

 

[Charlie24]

Which is not only imputed; but can also be imparted (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6, Matthew 5:20).

Yes, as I said in my last post, we are perfect in the sight of God, that is the demand of God, perfection.

But our perfection is not our own, it is Christs' perfection.

 

[peachyking]

Yes, as I said in my last post, we are perfect in the sight of God, that is the demand of God, perfection.

But our perfection is not our own, it is Christs' perfection.

This is not the doctrine of Christ.

 

[peachyking]

Paul said that "sin shall not have dominion over you." Sin has total dominion over the unbeliever, but not the believer.

We can be perfected as in progression, but not perfect in any way until the resurrection.

But we are perfect in the sight of God by faith in Christ, it is His righteousness that God sees and we are in Christ.

Tell me what Jesus said. Jesus is the Word. If it does not line up with what Jesus said then it is not the truth.