"God loves everyone" - false

[eternally-gratefull]

I assumed nothing. You used it to counter my argument that God doesn’t have mercy on all, which is contextually salvational. Your point was that oh yes he does but you made a category error. Your dodging, not owning up, and being regularly disingenuous makes it not worth my time talking to you.

Your still assuming

and your Still wrong

Stop telling other people what they are saying and what they mean like you know better than they do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Agreed. I am saying that if you could produce a verse saying God loved a specific biblical individual that is in hell ... that this verse would strongly further your stance that "God Loves Everyone". For some reason all the specific people in scripture that God says He loves end up in heaven and none that are in hell as said to be loved. What are the odds if God loves everyone?


This would be true if you can provide a verse that says "God loves His enemies". Please provide such a verse.
Aside: Yeah, I know God loves the WORLD ... but the word WORLD is ambiguous.
Aside2: Yeah, I know God love ALL ... but ALL can be understood as 'without distinction' or 'without exception'.
Aside3: Interesting that I can provide verses stating God hates his enemies ... but none seem to exist saying He loves His enemies.

No one is in hell now so how could we literally show you that

But proof. Look at Israel. He loved them with deep long suffering knowing they would reject him. According to Paul he still loves them

 

[Magenta]

Your argument assumes that we must do whatever God does.

I would say rather, that what God commands us to do, He does also.
Obviously we cannot do everything God does, such as speak a universe into existence.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Part of the issue? The incessant lying, slander, ridicule, mockery, name calling, failure to own up when proven in error (note my post to EG). A person counters you argument with a statement, you point out the glaring category error and that it’s unrelated, then that’s not what he meant. Um. Lol!!!!!!!! That’s what we call bovine scat in these parts. When you can’t get a guy to admit he’s arguing out of context and made a category error that is plain to see? Yep. Why bother.

I'll try to give you more votes

Well, most people can't do what you are asking ... see another point of view let alone change their mind or appreciate logic errors and contradictions. I am not sure I can. Guess we all like to think we can. I've tried to break down arguments into simpler PREMISES ... but does seem to work (this assume I am doing it correctly).
Then there are those that can't articulate but think they can.
Then there are the worst ... become personal.

Looking forward to some votes from you ... I am dying out there (J/K) .... LOL

 

[EleventhHour]

Well, most people can't do what you are asking ... see another point of view let alone change their mind or appreciate logic errors and contradictions. I am not sure I can. Guess we all like to think we can. I've tried to break down arguments into simpler PREMISES ... but does seem to work (this assume I am doing it correctly).
Then there are those that can't articulate but think they can.
Then there are the worst ... become personal.

Looking forward to some votes from you ... I am dying out there (J/K) .... LOL

I see the other point of view it does not work scriptural or logically, obviously God does things we cannot do, I do not see how that even relates.

First of all a premise is based on assumptions if the assumptions are wrong so is the premise.

So far we are not able to establish agreement on the first truth statement.

 

[DanielT]

Agreed. I am saying that if you could produce a verse saying God loved a specific biblical individual that is in hell ... that this verse would strongly further your stance that "God Loves Everyone". For some reason all the specific people in scripture that God says He loves end up in heaven and none that are in hell as said to be loved. What are the odds if God loves everyone?


This would be true if you can provide a verse that says "God loves His enemies". Please provide such a verse.
Aside: Yeah, I know God loves the WORLD ... but the word WORLD is ambiguous.
Aside2: Yeah, I know God love ALL ... but ALL can be understood as 'without distinction' or 'without exception'.
Aside3: Interesting that I can provide verses stating God hates his enemies ... but none seem to exist saying He loves His enemies.

"But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous." - Matthew 5:44-45

Do you really need this passage to use the exact words "God loves His enemies" in order to understand that that is exactly what it's saying? Essentially, Jesus is saying "love your enemies just like God does".

 

[Magenta]

Does God worship himself as He has told us to do?

Everything God does is for His glory.

 

[preacher4truth]

Well, most people can't do what you are asking ... see another point of view let alone change their mind or appreciate logic errors and contradictions. I am not sure I can. Guess we all like to think we can. I've tried to break down arguments into simpler PREMISES ... but does seem to work (this assume I am doing it correctly).
Then there are those that can't articulate but think they can.
Then there are the worst ... become personal.

Looking forward to some votes from you ... I am dying out there (J/K) .... LOL

I voted!

Hey, if a guy would just humble himself and admit the error, then we could have dialog. Pride won't let that happen. There is no need to continue on after this because everything after that point is disingenuous waffling.

My beliefs now came via admitting I was in error. Frankly it didn't bother me to admit I was in error. But I was at a point in my life where I wanted the truth. That was God, not me.

 

[EleventhHour]

appreciate logic errors

Can you show me a logic error?

 

[Fastfredy0]

My beliefs now came via admitting I was in error. Frankly it didn't bother me to admit I was in error. But I was at a point in my life where I wanted the truth. That was God, not me.

Thanks for the vote..

I asked myself ... what is the BIGGEST doctrine you have changed your mind on in the last 5 years. Said it was about LORDSHIP SALVATION ... but took a while. (aside: maybe I have it wrong now, and right before ...lol)
I had semi strong ideas on eschatology ... I am at point that I think I have vague guess, couple things pretty sure ... but won't stake my life on any thing in that area. Heard R.C. Sproul says some like "he was 100% sure regeneration precedes faith" but much lower percent confidence about eschatology.

Guess all Christians want the truth.

 

[preacher4truth]

Your still assuming

and your Still wrong

Stop telling other people what they are saying and what they mean like you know better than they do.

You're denying your own argument to counter mine. You can't own your own statements as when they're proven wrong you move the goalposts.

You made a category error, admit it, and you do so often which is why your arguments are readily dismantled. Then you resort to the above. Thus is how you handle being proven wrong.

Now tell us why you argued God does show mercy to all to counter my argument, which is biblical, that he actually won't and doesn't. I can't wait to see the spin you put on it.

I know your beliefs already, you think God shows everyone mercy, thus your argument to counter Scripture that he doesn't. My guess is you'll bow out after a couple more accusations.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Can you show me a logic error?

1 + 1 = 3
Not sure that is what you are asking. When I was speaking of logic errors I was speaking in general to someone, not something you said.

I did tell someone they were using circular logic.
... and someone said my premise is wrong without stating why ... guess that's just avoiding the question

 

[preacher4truth]

Thanks for the vote..

I asked myself ... what is the BIGGEST doctrine you have changed your mind on in the last 5 years. Said it was about LORDSHIP SALVATION ... but took a while. (aside: maybe I have it wrong now, and right before ...lol)
I had semi strong ideas on eschatology ... I am at point that I think I have vague guess, couple things pretty sure ... but won't stake my life on any thing in that area. Heard R.C. Sproul says some like "he was 100% sure regeneration precedes faith" but much lower percent confidence about eschatology.

Guess all Christians want the truth.

So called Lordship Salvation is literally the gospel the church preached (orthodox) until the likes of Finney, Robert Sandeman and others came along some 150 years or so back. This explains why many were appalled at MacArthurs "The Gospel According to Jesus" because in it he preached the same true gospel.

 

[preacher4truth]

@Fastfredy0 I need some votes!

 

[Fastfredy0]

MacArthurs "The Gospel According to Jesus" because in it he preached the same true gospel.

Yeah, I read that book and Ryrie's counter "So Great a Salvation". I was initially on Ryrie's side.

Anyways... time to watch the news ... How to Shop at Target in Minnesota

 

[EleventhHour]

1 + 1 = 3
Not sure that is what you are asking. When I was speaking of logic errors I was speaking in general to someone, not something you said.

I did tell someone they were using circular logic.
... and someone said my premise is wrong without stating why ... guess that's just avoiding the question

Your logic did not work because you think you started with a truth statement .. it is not a truth statement.

And we have been continually trying to show why your original premise is not a truth statement according to scripture.

 

[Fastfredy0]

our logic did not work because you think you started with a truth statement .. it is not a truth statement.

Well, that is 'water under the bridge now". I don't recall anyone SPECIFICALLY pointing out a premise of mine and saying it was incorrect for a specific reason. Maybe my memory is bad ... to the best of my recollection. Maybe someone made a point and it was relevant to a Premise I proposed... but don't recall someone correlating their argument to such a premise. (I stand to be corrected)

Hey .. I have lots of questions that haven't been answered.

I am all caught up on questions posed to me. Time for the TV news

 

[preacher4truth]

Yeah, I read that book and Ryrie's counter "So Great a Salvation". I was initially on Ryrie's side.

Anyways... time to watch the news ... How to Shop at Target in Minnesota

Remember Swindoll came out with The Grace Awakening at virtually the same time. It was your basic Antinomian Free Grace Theology "gospel" the antithesis of MacArthur's work, and quite shallow.

 

[preacher4truth]

Well, that is 'water under the bridge now". I don't recall anyone SPECIFICALLY pointing out a premise of mine and saying it was incorrect for a specific reason. Maybe my memory is bad ... to the best of my recollection. Maybe someone made a point and it was relevant to a Premise I proposed... but don't recall someone correlating their argument to such a premise. (I stand to be corrected)

Hey .. I have lots of questions that haven't been answered.

I am all caught up on questions posed to me. Time for the TV news

Hey, you look a little like Ray Parmesan.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, most people can't do what you are asking ... see another point of view let alone change their mind or appreciate logic errors and contradictions. I am not sure I can. Guess we all like to think we can. I've tried to break down arguments into simpler PREMISES ... but does seem to work (this assume I am doing it correctly).
Then there are those that can't articulate but think they can.
Then there are the worst ... become personal.

Looking forward to some votes from you ... I am dying out there (J/K) .... LOL

I think it is Pride which gets people to think they know it all. And when it comes to getting personal. The person you responded to is one of the masters of this. Look how he tries to tell me he knows why and what I means when I posted? I mean lol. Talk about pride.

Then again, It is how some people work..

He can change my mind, People have already changed my mind in here. All you have to do is propose an idea. Back it up scripturally (where there is NO DOUBT, and answer questions when people ask you them to further understand what you mean.

The worse thing you can do is when people question you. Get angry and resort to what certain people do..

As for your premesis

As I showed. You give a few premesis, And they work for those senerios. But not everyone or everythign falls into those premesis.

If you going to give like say two different premesis. And say this is what you see. You have to be open to allow others to also give premesis to show you what they see. And you can not be so bent that your right, That you downplay what the other said. and say YOURs is the ONLY WAY.