Galatians Discussion
- Thread starter thebattleforideas
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I think Paul is correcting them because their actions were not consistent with the idea that justification is by faith. If it is, Gentiles should not be required to be circumcised and obey the law of Moses if they were in good-standing with God through Christ. They did not have to enter the covenant to keep the law to be righteous, and therefore should be accepting into fellowship.
Also, since the Lord's Supper was originally an actual meal, and if eating together were typically 'the Lord's Supper' excluding members of the body from the supper is a serious thing. It is a bit of speculation to think that may have been an issue. But excluding the poor or those who arrive late by not sharing the supper with them is a pretty big deal in I Corinthians 11. Something else that comes to mind regarding false brethren and false teachers is that they were spots on the love feasts and 'spots and blemishes while they feast with you' in Jude and Peter's writings. So if this is the Lord's Supper, we can see why Paul makes much of it.
Paul does not say that James was culpable. After certain men came from James, Peter withdrew from eating with the Gentiles. Paul does not say that James ordered it.
It is possible that the James that sent these men was James the son of Zebedee before he died. In Galatians Peter, James, and John were considered to be 'pillars' and these are also the names of the men on the mount of transfiguration. These events might have happened after Barnabas had retrieved Saul from Tarsus and they taught the church in Antioch for a whole year as seen in Acts 11:25-26. Herod killed James in Acts 12. In Acts 13, Paul and Barnabas our sent out by the Spirit from Antioch as apostles, preaching to the Gentiles. In Acts 14, they go to what was at that time was part of the region of Galatia.
Later, the Romans would move the southern border of Galatia further north. As late as the 1800's, Bible commentators would consider Galatia to have a border further north, and not include first missionary journey. They would either have to suppose Paul went there between Acts 14 and 15 or that his first trip there was recorded in Acts 16:6.
In the 1800's, a theologian developed this idea that Paul and James the Lord's brother were at odds with one another. I have seen many an Internet poster try to blame James the Lord's brother for the men who came from James, as if they told Peter not to eat with the Gentiles. We have no evidence about that. They could have, some of them could have. They could have without any leading from James. But Peter could have felt self-conscious around fellow Jews and wanted to act more conservatively.
At that time the Shammai Pharisees were in charge. They were more rigid about Gentile conversion. It could be that Peter's comment about it being unlawful to go under a Gentile's roof was a decision by the Shammai Pharisees in the Sandhedrin. Jews from Jerusalem may have been used to keeping aspects of scribe and Pharisee decisions. Jesus had told His listeners in Matthew 23 that the scribes and Pharisees sat in Moses' seat. Whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do, but not to do their works. But he also rebuked them for shutting up the kingdom of heaven against men. Paul found a problem of acting according to the Gospel in the practice of not eating with the Gentiles.
Also, if we recognize the 'south Galatian theory' that these events likely occurred before Barnabas and Saul were sent out in Acts 13, it makes more sense. If Paul already had the decision from the Jerusalem council in hand when he first went to Galatia, then why wouldn't he mention this settled issue in his epistle? In Acts, Paul delivers the letter from the council to Galatia. Why would the issue even be an issue in Galatia if he had already given them the letter from the apostles and elders from Acts 15?
There were men in Galatians 'sent from James.' Some would try to make them out to be those promoting Gentile circumcision in Acts 15. But the apostles and elders said they did not mention those men mentioned in Acts 15. The evidence is that these are two separate events.
Also, since the Lord's Supper was originally an actual meal, and if eating together were typically 'the Lord's Supper' excluding members of the body from the supper is a serious thing. It is a bit of speculation to think that may have been an issue. But excluding the poor or those who arrive late by not sharing the supper with them is a pretty big deal in I Corinthians 11. Something else that comes to mind regarding false brethren and false teachers is that they were spots on the love feasts and 'spots and blemishes while they feast with you' in Jude and Peter's writings. So if this is the Lord's Supper, we can see why Paul makes much of it.
Paul does not say that James was culpable. After certain men came from James, Peter withdrew from eating with the Gentiles. Paul does not say that James ordered it.
It is possible that the James that sent these men was James the son of Zebedee before he died. In Galatians Peter, James, and John were considered to be 'pillars' and these are also the names of the men on the mount of transfiguration. These events might have happened after Barnabas had retrieved Saul from Tarsus and they taught the church in Antioch for a whole year as seen in Acts 11:25-26. Herod killed James in Acts 12. In Acts 13, Paul and Barnabas our sent out by the Spirit from Antioch as apostles, preaching to the Gentiles. In Acts 14, they go to what was at that time was part of the region of Galatia.
Later, the Romans would move the southern border of Galatia further north. As late as the 1800's, Bible commentators would consider Galatia to have a border further north, and not include first missionary journey. They would either have to suppose Paul went there between Acts 14 and 15 or that his first trip there was recorded in Acts 16:6.
In the 1800's, a theologian developed this idea that Paul and James the Lord's brother were at odds with one another. I have seen many an Internet poster try to blame James the Lord's brother for the men who came from James, as if they told Peter not to eat with the Gentiles. We have no evidence about that. They could have, some of them could have. They could have without any leading from James. But Peter could have felt self-conscious around fellow Jews and wanted to act more conservatively.
At that time the Shammai Pharisees were in charge. They were more rigid about Gentile conversion. It could be that Peter's comment about it being unlawful to go under a Gentile's roof was a decision by the Shammai Pharisees in the Sandhedrin. Jews from Jerusalem may have been used to keeping aspects of scribe and Pharisee decisions. Jesus had told His listeners in Matthew 23 that the scribes and Pharisees sat in Moses' seat. Whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do, but not to do their works. But he also rebuked them for shutting up the kingdom of heaven against men. Paul found a problem of acting according to the Gospel in the practice of not eating with the Gentiles.
Also, if we recognize the 'south Galatian theory' that these events likely occurred before Barnabas and Saul were sent out in Acts 13, it makes more sense. If Paul already had the decision from the Jerusalem council in hand when he first went to Galatia, then why wouldn't he mention this settled issue in his epistle? In Acts, Paul delivers the letter from the council to Galatia. Why would the issue even be an issue in Galatia if he had already given them the letter from the apostles and elders from Acts 15?
There were men in Galatians 'sent from James.' Some would try to make them out to be those promoting Gentile circumcision in Acts 15. But the apostles and elders said they did not mention those men mentioned in Acts 15. The evidence is that these are two separate events.
“what is written in the law remains, that which God desires up to follow”
“Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”
Exodus 21:24-25 KJV
Moses law taught equal revenge eye for an eye justice but Christ Jesus taught Gods Will look at the contrary nature of it
“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
Matthew 5:38-39 KJV
take revenge ? Or don’t take any revenge ? Whats Gods will ?
“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”
John 6:45 KJV
we have to believe the gospel to know Gods will the law is for unholy and unrighteous people who refuse to repent that’s why it tells us what not to do
Thou shalt not , Thou shalt not ect ….it’s for these folks
“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
1 Timothy 1:9-10 KJV
it’s what God said to those he knew were wicked at heart and wanted to do all those things he says not to do Jesus is who teaches us what God wills for us to do and be
Moses law is for this
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
Knowing sin can’t save anyone but the gospel is for this
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
and for this
“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”
Romans 3:21-28 KJV
This isn’t faith “ Thou shalt not kill or ye shall be killed “
this is faith
“Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”
John 6:28-29 KJV
to know Gods will we have to hear what christ said and forget what Moses said to sinners we need Christ and the gospel the law of the spirit of life
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
not the law of sin and death that says “ Thou shalt not lest ye surely be put to death “
that will never help us
“Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”
Exodus 21:24-25 KJV
Moses law taught equal revenge eye for an eye justice but Christ Jesus taught Gods Will look at the contrary nature of it
“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
Matthew 5:38-39 KJV
take revenge ? Or don’t take any revenge ? Whats Gods will ?
“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”
John 6:45 KJV
we have to believe the gospel to know Gods will the law is for unholy and unrighteous people who refuse to repent that’s why it tells us what not to do
Thou shalt not , Thou shalt not ect ….it’s for these folks
“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
1 Timothy 1:9-10 KJV
it’s what God said to those he knew were wicked at heart and wanted to do all those things he says not to do Jesus is who teaches us what God wills for us to do and be
Moses law is for this
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
Knowing sin can’t save anyone but the gospel is for this
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
and for this
“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”
Romans 3:21-28 KJV
This isn’t faith “ Thou shalt not kill or ye shall be killed “
this is faith
“Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”
John 6:28-29 KJV
to know Gods will we have to hear what christ said and forget what Moses said to sinners we need Christ and the gospel the law of the spirit of life
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
not the law of sin and death that says “ Thou shalt not lest ye surely be put to death “
that will never help us
The core foundation upon which the new covenant stands is as follows:
“This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[b]
17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”[Heb10:16&17
It simply means God puts the desire in your heart not to covet, steal, bear false witness, commit adultery etc
That law cannot condemn you, for Christ paid the penalty of your sin. You do not look to that law in order to live as God desires you to live, you look to Christ and trust in him. It is there because it cuts out a licence to sin under grace. You have righteousness apart from obeying the law, and you can have it, because in your heart you desire to live as God wsants you to live for that is where what is written in the law is placed. Law without condemnation, in this respect keeps what is holy, righteous, and good intact
“This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[b]
17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”[Heb10:16&17
It simply means God puts the desire in your heart not to covet, steal, bear false witness, commit adultery etc
That law cannot condemn you, for Christ paid the penalty of your sin. You do not look to that law in order to live as God desires you to live, you look to Christ and trust in him. It is there because it cuts out a licence to sin under grace. You have righteousness apart from obeying the law, and you can have it, because in your heart you desire to live as God wsants you to live for that is where what is written in the law is placed. Law without condemnation, in this respect keeps what is holy, righteous, and good intact
-
1
- Show all
right his law this law that he promised and was witnessed in prophecy
“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.
My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.”
Isaiah 51:4-5 KJV
Moses law was given to them way before that promise when Christ was saying listen to me a law shall proceed from me …
Moses law written on the heart condemns everyone to death makes them guilty what Christ said when he dame is the law of light he promised it’s what Paul was saying here
“Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”
Acts 26:22-23 KJV
we’re not going to be judged by Moses law we have to believe the gospel that’s how it gets written on a heart we have to put our faith in Jesus and that comes when we hear his word not moses words but christs words these words
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50 KJV
everything is based on the gospel that’s why the gospel is what he sent into the world not the law but the gospel the law he promised to speak when he came the messiah is the lawgiver Moses already said that long ago moses witnessed that we have to go to Christs word not his
“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
… Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
Acts 3:22-24, 26 KJV
Even Moses knew who’s words to hear and live by Moses law led us to Christ who was always promised to come and speak Gods truth it’s why Jesus came
“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
John 18:37 KJV
Moses and all the prophets witnessed the same again and again this has to be accepted and believed that’s how it gets “ written on the heart “
“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.
He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
2 John 1:9-10 KJV
We need the word of faith not this word
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:10-12 KJV
We need Gods word through Christ without the law of Moses
“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;”
Romans 3:21 KJV
the law can’t produce any faith but his word can
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
Again this is what Moses was told by God about Jesus
“And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”
Deuteronomy 18:17-19 KJV
The law of Moses does this
“And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.”
2 Corinthians 3:13-15 KJV
We need the law of light he promised would come with the messiah
“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.
My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.”
Isaiah 51:4-5 KJV
Moses law was given to them way before that promise when Christ was saying listen to me a law shall proceed from me …
Moses law written on the heart condemns everyone to death makes them guilty what Christ said when he dame is the law of light he promised it’s what Paul was saying here
“Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”
Acts 26:22-23 KJV
we’re not going to be judged by Moses law we have to believe the gospel that’s how it gets written on a heart we have to put our faith in Jesus and that comes when we hear his word not moses words but christs words these words
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50 KJV
everything is based on the gospel that’s why the gospel is what he sent into the world not the law but the gospel the law he promised to speak when he came the messiah is the lawgiver Moses already said that long ago moses witnessed that we have to go to Christs word not his
“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
… Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
Acts 3:22-24, 26 KJV
Even Moses knew who’s words to hear and live by Moses law led us to Christ who was always promised to come and speak Gods truth it’s why Jesus came
“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
John 18:37 KJV
Moses and all the prophets witnessed the same again and again this has to be accepted and believed that’s how it gets “ written on the heart “
“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.
He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
2 John 1:9-10 KJV
We need the word of faith not this word
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:10-12 KJV
We need Gods word through Christ without the law of Moses
“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;”
Romans 3:21 KJV
the law can’t produce any faith but his word can
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
Again this is what Moses was told by God about Jesus
“And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”
Deuteronomy 18:17-19 KJV
The law of Moses does this
“And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.”
2 Corinthians 3:13-15 KJV
We need the law of light he promised would come with the messiah
this is the issue the reason people commit sin there’s a root to why we sin even though we say I believe
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
Mark 7:21-23 KJV
telling person not to sin when thoer heart is like that does this
“For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.”
Romans 7:5 KJV
but the gospel addresses the issue which one of these is going to cause repentance and keep us from committing sin remember where it comes from
“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
Matthew 5:27-28 KJV
We only commit adultery flyer we entertain it and harbor the ideas and thoughts if we let Jesus address our heart and accept his word there’s never going to be any motive to ever commit adultery Jesus word of we accept it and persevere and follow his word keeps us from sin . He teaches us to deal with the issue inside of us that comes out in sinful actions.
what Jesus taught is this
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
if we follow the spirit and life in Christs word then we’re going to overcome the flesh
“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:16, 18-21 KJV
In other words if we walk by what Christ is teaching about the inner part of us the heart d not allowing lustful ideas and fantasies to dwell in our mind and heart of we get control of our inner self like Christ teaches “ don’t hate people in your heart , don’t love money in your heart , don’t look with lust in your heart , don’t bear any grudges ect it’s going to change the heart that’s what he promised remember ?
“A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”
Ezekiel 36:26-27 KJV
not moses laws but Christs judgements the true law of God the spirit and truth of life and righteousness
If we put all Our faith in Christ and his word , we’re going to repent in truth where it matters and the sinful actions we used to let flow out of us aren’t going to anymore instead well
Start bearing the fruits of the spirit the fruits of the gospel
telling a wicked heart not to commit sin will never help it was for the hard hearted sinners who wouldnt hear and repent the gospel is for Hods gchildren to call us to true repentance and righteousness
But no offense or anything at all just discussing my own belief and what I see in scriptire doesn’t make me right but of course I believe it and have seen it’s effect in my own life I’ve found this is true
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32 KJV
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
Mark 7:21-23 KJV
telling person not to sin when thoer heart is like that does this
“For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.”
Romans 7:5 KJV
but the gospel addresses the issue which one of these is going to cause repentance and keep us from committing sin remember where it comes from
“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
Matthew 5:27-28 KJV
We only commit adultery flyer we entertain it and harbor the ideas and thoughts if we let Jesus address our heart and accept his word there’s never going to be any motive to ever commit adultery Jesus word of we accept it and persevere and follow his word keeps us from sin . He teaches us to deal with the issue inside of us that comes out in sinful actions.
what Jesus taught is this
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
if we follow the spirit and life in Christs word then we’re going to overcome the flesh
“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:16, 18-21 KJV
In other words if we walk by what Christ is teaching about the inner part of us the heart d not allowing lustful ideas and fantasies to dwell in our mind and heart of we get control of our inner self like Christ teaches “ don’t hate people in your heart , don’t love money in your heart , don’t look with lust in your heart , don’t bear any grudges ect it’s going to change the heart that’s what he promised remember ?
“A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”
Ezekiel 36:26-27 KJV
not moses laws but Christs judgements the true law of God the spirit and truth of life and righteousness
If we put all Our faith in Christ and his word , we’re going to repent in truth where it matters and the sinful actions we used to let flow out of us aren’t going to anymore instead well
Start bearing the fruits of the spirit the fruits of the gospel
telling a wicked heart not to commit sin will never help it was for the hard hearted sinners who wouldnt hear and repent the gospel is for Hods gchildren to call us to true repentance and righteousness
But no offense or anything at all just discussing my own belief and what I see in scriptire doesn’t make me right but of course I believe it and have seen it’s effect in my own life I’ve found this is true
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32 KJV
are you reading the scriptures I’m sharing ? This is the spirit we follow
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
of we follow Jesus word we aren’t going to need to be told not to commit adultery. The law of the spirit of life is what Jesus spoke that’s what we’re supposed to believe and follow because it will save us from our sin it’s going to achieve this
“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Luke 5:32 KJV
again this is where our issue is it’s why we commit sin with our body
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
Mark 7:21-23 KJV
the problem Is in our heart this is what Christs word does
“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
Hebrews 4:12 KJV
This is Gods word that does that
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
That’s why Jesus is constantly quoting Moses law and saying different things to our heart not to our flesh saying “ don’t commit sin “ he’s solving our sin issue at the core of we accept and believe the gospel
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
of we follow Jesus word we aren’t going to need to be told not to commit adultery. The law of the spirit of life is what Jesus spoke that’s what we’re supposed to believe and follow because it will save us from our sin it’s going to achieve this
“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Luke 5:32 KJV
again this is where our issue is it’s why we commit sin with our body
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
Mark 7:21-23 KJV
the problem Is in our heart this is what Christs word does
“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
Hebrews 4:12 KJV
This is Gods word that does that
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
That’s why Jesus is constantly quoting Moses law and saying different things to our heart not to our flesh saying “ don’t commit sin “ he’s solving our sin issue at the core of we accept and believe the gospel
Im not arguing, just making some simple statements, none of which you have refuted incidentally, I don't see how you can. The law God desires us to follow is within us, if we conscious of sin in our lives we are wilfully going against law within us for sin is transgression of the law, and through the law we become conscious of sin
Sin shall not be your master for you are not under righteousness of obeying the law but under righteousness of faith in Christ/grace. Rom6:14
However, none of us will ever b e sin free in this body of flesh
Sin shall not be your master for you are not under righteousness of obeying the law but under righteousness of faith in Christ/grace. Rom6:14
However, none of us will ever b e sin free in this body of flesh
wasn’t attempting to “ refute “ anything was sharing scriptirs that’s super clear and overwhelming for you to consider.
“However, none of us will ever b e sin free in this body of flesh”
not if we keep returning to a law for sinners we won’t but if we turn to Christ there is no sin in him there is the righteousness of God for his children
would it change your view what if you believed this ? Would it move your opinion ?
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
John 8:31-32, 34, 36 KJV
and then if you noticed Paul witnessing that
“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death,
or of obedience unto righteousness?
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
Romans 6:15-18 KJV
would you consider that we can be free of sin ? And are being called out of it completely ?
“And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.”
1 John 3:5-8 KJV
I’m asking if you were to believe that not read it and reject it but if you let that into your thinking do you think it would change your mind about that ?
the key is this part which is what I thought we were talking about
The key is this part
“Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.”
1 John 3:4 KJV
“But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.”
Galatians 5:18 KJV
“Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.”
Romans 4:15 KJV
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;”
Romans 3:19-21 KJV
that’s why we have to come out from the law as Christ provided for us if we go back to it we’re always going to be bound to sin and death that’s it’s purpose to give the knowledge of sin of you begin to believe what Paul’s saying about Christians already having died to the law d no belong to Christ there is no sin in him because the law was removed from over us
we make mistakes but his doctrine covers it forgive and you will be forgiven mercy for the merciful don’t judge others and you won’t be judged ect
we’re not perfect but if we believe what the New Testament says about the law being fulfilled for us and we are no longer under that law sin goes away with it
“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”
Romans 7:4 KJV
We belong to the gospel only the law has no part in Christ his law is sufficient all he taught and did is all we need in fact we can’t put the two covenants together they are contrary one is going to always produce sin in sinners The other is always going to remit sin and create righteousness
“However, none of us will ever b e sin free in this body of flesh”
not if we keep returning to a law for sinners we won’t but if we turn to Christ there is no sin in him there is the righteousness of God for his children
would it change your view what if you believed this ? Would it move your opinion ?
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
John 8:31-32, 34, 36 KJV
and then if you noticed Paul witnessing that
“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death,
or of obedience unto righteousness?
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
Romans 6:15-18 KJV
would you consider that we can be free of sin ? And are being called out of it completely ?
“And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.”
1 John 3:5-8 KJV
I’m asking if you were to believe that not read it and reject it but if you let that into your thinking do you think it would change your mind about that ?
the key is this part which is what I thought we were talking about
The key is this part
“Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.”
1 John 3:4 KJV
“But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.”
Galatians 5:18 KJV
“Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.”
Romans 4:15 KJV
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;”
Romans 3:19-21 KJV
that’s why we have to come out from the law as Christ provided for us if we go back to it we’re always going to be bound to sin and death that’s it’s purpose to give the knowledge of sin of you begin to believe what Paul’s saying about Christians already having died to the law d no belong to Christ there is no sin in him because the law was removed from over us
we make mistakes but his doctrine covers it forgive and you will be forgiven mercy for the merciful don’t judge others and you won’t be judged ect
we’re not perfect but if we believe what the New Testament says about the law being fulfilled for us and we are no longer under that law sin goes away with it
“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”
Romans 7:4 KJV
We belong to the gospel only the law has no part in Christ his law is sufficient all he taught and did is all we need in fact we can’t put the two covenants together they are contrary one is going to always produce sin in sinners The other is always going to remit sin and create righteousness
-
1
- Show all
One of the greatest delusions in the church is the need to focus on the sin nature. We've even come up with Public Relations axioms that no one questions: "We're just sinners saved by grace" "Who am I to judge?" etc. All these appeal to a population that is carnal (worldly). These things are said to somehow assuage the moodiness of a god who is petulant. This way of thinking is an active deception from the Roman Empire's influence on the church.
"God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting men’s trespasses against them.... God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God."
This is not about sinning or not sinning. This is about the change of nature and standing with the Father: from a sinner to a son.
"God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting men’s trespasses against them.... God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God."
This is not about sinning or not sinning. This is about the change of nature and standing with the Father: from a sinner to a son.
-
1
- Show all
You are not following Christ if you are living in rebellion to the law. You have no faith in Christ if you don't have faith in anything you are told by Christ about how to live in this world.
Christ knew we couldn't keep the law perfectly, Christ does that for us and we are righteous through Christ, not through our own powers. We are only asked to want to obey the law, to repent of any sins we commit.
Righteous living is done through Christ, and we are to have pride in Christ within us to lead us. Christ does NOT lead us to rebellion against the law, Christ leads us to a life living with him, and Christ cannot live with sin. Our sin separates us from Christ.
What leads to death is a lack of true repentance. The sin we want to keep causes our death. Christ wants us to repent of that sin, give it to him and get rid of it with his forgiveness.
Christ knew we couldn't keep the law perfectly, Christ does that for us and we are righteous through Christ, not through our own powers. We are only asked to want to obey the law, to repent of any sins we commit.
Righteous living is done through Christ, and we are to have pride in Christ within us to lead us. Christ does NOT lead us to rebellion against the law, Christ leads us to a life living with him, and Christ cannot live with sin. Our sin separates us from Christ.
What leads to death is a lack of true repentance. The sin we want to keep causes our death. Christ wants us to repent of that sin, give it to him and get rid of it with his forgiveness.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Your belief system is hogwash before God.
"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin."
Remain guilty under the law or repent from error and run to Christ.
"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin."
Remain guilty under the law or repent from error and run to Christ.
You said: "If the law was removed we would not have to repent."
The Holy Spirit strongly suggests you read Genesis, which was before the law that was given to Moses.
Remove the law and you still have sin ruling in men's hearts.
But i AGREE with you in this: The law magnified our sins and therefore no one can ever be made righteous by the law.
The Holy Spirit strongly suggests you read Genesis, which was before the law that was given to Moses.
Remove the law and you still have sin ruling in men's hearts.
But i AGREE with you in this: The law magnified our sins and therefore no one can ever be made righteous by the law.
Standing with the Father as a son means that you take on the characteristics of the Father. The father cannot live with sin, and in that way it is about sin for we are born in sin and righteous only through Christ.
If we don't want that righteousness, if we don't repent of sin, but want to keep sin in our life we can't stand with the Father.
If we don't want that righteousness, if we don't repent of sin, but want to keep sin in our life we can't stand with the Father.
-
1
- Show all
We don't return to a law for sinners, but, according to the foundation upon which the new covenant stands the law God desires for us is within us, but minus the penalty for breaking it. The power of sin is the law 1Cor 15:56. But the true power of sin is the penalty for transgression, that got removed by Christ's death at calvary. It is an indisputable fact through the law we become conscious of sin. You can only have heartfelt conviction of sin before God concerning law that is within you. I would think nearly all christians would have consciousness of sin if they committed adultery for example, or committed theft, or bore false witness. I am only sharing biblical truth also.
Concerning being sin free. With respect, please see a difference between being a slave to sin, where sin is your master, and sinless perfection. They are worlds apart, please bear that in mind when quoting your scriptures:
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God 1John 3:9
If we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us 1John 1:8
Contradiction? Well no
If you asked nearly all christians if they must live a sinless life in order to be a christian they would reply ''No'' for they would know they were not perfect in the flesh, no one is(1John1:8)
However, if you asked nearly all christians if you could be saved if you lived a lifestyle of sin, they would also reply ''No''(1John3:9)
We have to read the bible as one cohesive whole, and discern what is written. Do you commit sin in your view if we do not obey Jesus commands in the Gospels? Jesus spoke the word of God on this earth remember. That is where the bar is set, the beatitudes for example. In over 40 years I have never met any christian who even tried to obey each and every command of Christ, are you really different? And, if a person believes they are sinless, what need have they for a saviour from sin, Jesus becomes irrelevant to them. Even Paul said he was not perfect! No, you should consider just what it would take to be sinless, man will not achieve that, even with the Holy Spirit, for no man will perfectly follow the manual, as that Baptist minister said
Concerning being sin free. With respect, please see a difference between being a slave to sin, where sin is your master, and sinless perfection. They are worlds apart, please bear that in mind when quoting your scriptures:
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God 1John 3:9
If we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us 1John 1:8
Contradiction? Well no
If you asked nearly all christians if they must live a sinless life in order to be a christian they would reply ''No'' for they would know they were not perfect in the flesh, no one is(1John1:8)
However, if you asked nearly all christians if you could be saved if you lived a lifestyle of sin, they would also reply ''No''(1John3:9)
We have to read the bible as one cohesive whole, and discern what is written. Do you commit sin in your view if we do not obey Jesus commands in the Gospels? Jesus spoke the word of God on this earth remember. That is where the bar is set, the beatitudes for example. In over 40 years I have never met any christian who even tried to obey each and every command of Christ, are you really different? And, if a person believes they are sinless, what need have they for a saviour from sin, Jesus becomes irrelevant to them. Even Paul said he was not perfect! No, you should consider just what it would take to be sinless, man will not achieve that, even with the Holy Spirit, for no man will perfectly follow the manual, as that Baptist minister said