Galatians Discussion
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Of course, if we consistently, or always followed after the Spirit, for the rest of our lives, without deviation, we would never have to tell God we were sorry for any thought, word or deed would we. We would never have a bad conscience about anything, we would never regret anything we have done since being born again. Yet the bible tells us to confess our faults/sins to one another.
A person is born again, or made alive with Christ even when they are dead in transgression/sin(Eph2:5) What follows next?
If while we seek to be justified in Christ it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does this mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not, if I rebuild what I destroyed I prove I am a lawbreaker Gal2:16&17
The justification being sought in this respect is in crossing over from being a slave of sin when we come to Christ into a slave of righteousness leading to holiness. It obviously takes time.
But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
19 I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. Rom6:17-19
A person is born again, or made alive with Christ even when they are dead in transgression/sin(Eph2:5) What follows next?
If while we seek to be justified in Christ it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does this mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not, if I rebuild what I destroyed I prove I am a lawbreaker Gal2:16&17
The justification being sought in this respect is in crossing over from being a slave of sin when we come to Christ into a slave of righteousness leading to holiness. It obviously takes time.
But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
19 I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. Rom6:17-19
Phl 3:4, Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Phl 3:5, Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Phl 3:6, Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Phl 3:7, But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Phl 3:8, Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Phl 3:9, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Phl 3:5, Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Phl 3:6, Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Phl 3:7, But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Phl 3:8, Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Phl 3:9, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
What follows next is very very important. It is the main message Christ was sent to give according to Matthew: it is repent.
Our work is like filthy rags, we simply can't be like God and only righteousness that we can't attain is good enough. God in His mercy took care of that, God said I only ask that you truly want to live a life without sin and I count it as being sin free.
The price of not listening to God, of ignoring what God tells us is great. It really lays it on the line in Proverbs. We are forgiven our sins, we live in God's mercy and abundance, but to live with Him within us, we must listen when he asks that we want to follow Him in a sinless life, even though we can't.
Proverbs 1: 24 Because I have called an you refused to listen,
have stretched out my hand and no one has heeded,
25 because you have ignored all my counsel
and would have none of my reproof,
26 I also will laugh at your calamity
I will mock when terror strikes you,
27 when terror strikes you like a storm
and your calamity comes like a whirlwind,
when distress and anguish come upon you.
28 Then they will call upon me, but I will not answer;
they will seek me diligently but will not find me.
Our work is like filthy rags, we simply can't be like God and only righteousness that we can't attain is good enough. God in His mercy took care of that, God said I only ask that you truly want to live a life without sin and I count it as being sin free.
The price of not listening to God, of ignoring what God tells us is great. It really lays it on the line in Proverbs. We are forgiven our sins, we live in God's mercy and abundance, but to live with Him within us, we must listen when he asks that we want to follow Him in a sinless life, even though we can't.
Proverbs 1: 24 Because I have called an you refused to listen,
have stretched out my hand and no one has heeded,
25 because you have ignored all my counsel
and would have none of my reproof,
26 I also will laugh at your calamity
I will mock when terror strikes you,
27 when terror strikes you like a storm
and your calamity comes like a whirlwind,
when distress and anguish come upon you.
28 Then they will call upon me, but I will not answer;
they will seek me diligently but will not find me.
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“It is the main message Christ was sent to give according to Matthew: it is repent. “
“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Luke 5:32 KJV
“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?”
Romans 2:4 KJV
“I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.”
Luke 15:7 KJV
“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:3 KJV
“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men…. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:7, 9-11, 13 KJV
“if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
2 Timothy 2:25-26
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24
“The price of not listening to God, of ignoring what God tells us is great.”
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50 KJV
“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Luke 5:32 KJV
“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?”
Romans 2:4 KJV
“I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.”
Luke 15:7 KJV
“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:3 KJV
“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men…. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:7, 9-11, 13 KJV
“if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
2 Timothy 2:25-26
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24
“The price of not listening to God, of ignoring what God tells us is great.”
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50 KJV
Well I doubt they would have needed bullet proof vests, but I would imagine James and Paul could have had lengthy discussions as to their main particular emphasis on the Gospel message. Though they would have united around the core truths of the Gospel.
I like what Spurgeon once said:
Two ministers preached very different sermons to their congregations. One preached on a righteousness of faith in Christ for the whole of a believers life, apart from works, the other stressed right living. Spurgeon said they both preached correct sermons, for they preached what their particular congregations needed to hear.
I like what Spurgeon once said:
Two ministers preached very different sermons to their congregations. One preached on a righteousness of faith in Christ for the whole of a believers life, apart from works, the other stressed right living. Spurgeon said they both preached correct sermons, for they preached what their particular congregations needed to hear.
It bothers me that there is such a difference between Christ and Paul. Christ is God, and we are to check Paul out, he must agree with God.
When I read the gospels it fills me with love and enthusiasm, I feel God in me directing my every step. Paul has so many "careful" "put on the breaks" sort of things I feel a frown coming on.
When I read the gospels it fills me with love and enthusiasm, I feel God in me directing my every step. Paul has so many "careful" "put on the breaks" sort of things I feel a frown coming on.
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I don’t know what you are specifically referring to of course. But where Paul’s main message is concerned, I think he elaborates on what Christ taught.
Jesus lived under the old covenant, and was faithful to it, however, he did look forward to the new covenant also:
When he(the Holy Spirit) comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. John 16:8-10
The above would seem to me to be what Paul stressed. Christ did not say in regard to sin, transgression of the law, but rather because people did not believe in him. And Paul relentlessly stressed a believers righteousness was faith in Christ, not observing the law.
Jesus himself also told his disciples he was limited as to what he could teach them, but when the Spirit came he would lead them into all truth. The Apostles had the indwelling Spirit and could teach other believers(elaborating on the message) who also had the indwelling Spirit, something that could not happen during the time of the Gospels.
12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. 12&13
I think Paul’s message defies human logic, so we need the Spirit to understand and accept it:
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20
Bearing in mind sin is the transgression of the law, the above could just as well be written as:
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by not committing sin…
Is that really so far from the new covenant?
This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[b]
17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”
To Paul, believing you had no righteousness of obeying the law/not committing sin resulted in victory over sin, or, being enabled to live the life God wants you to live. That is a hard thing to accept. But then, we need to see where Paul was coming from. As a Pharisee he could not obey the law that mattered most, the Ten Commandments. He was condemned by it, and through his knowledge of those commands much sin was aroused in him. But Saul had been a stickler for the letter of the law. It must be obeyed or he was condemned, for he was an ardent Pharisee. I think many today who grew up with a similar view, earnestly stress grace when they are shown it. I wonder if Christ chose Paul to preach the message because he had been such an ardent Pharisee. Just a few thoughts.
Jesus lived under the old covenant, and was faithful to it, however, he did look forward to the new covenant also:
When he(the Holy Spirit) comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. John 16:8-10
The above would seem to me to be what Paul stressed. Christ did not say in regard to sin, transgression of the law, but rather because people did not believe in him. And Paul relentlessly stressed a believers righteousness was faith in Christ, not observing the law.
Jesus himself also told his disciples he was limited as to what he could teach them, but when the Spirit came he would lead them into all truth. The Apostles had the indwelling Spirit and could teach other believers(elaborating on the message) who also had the indwelling Spirit, something that could not happen during the time of the Gospels.
12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. 12&13
I think Paul’s message defies human logic, so we need the Spirit to understand and accept it:
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20
Bearing in mind sin is the transgression of the law, the above could just as well be written as:
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by not committing sin…
Is that really so far from the new covenant?
This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[b]
17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”
To Paul, believing you had no righteousness of obeying the law/not committing sin resulted in victory over sin, or, being enabled to live the life God wants you to live. That is a hard thing to accept. But then, we need to see where Paul was coming from. As a Pharisee he could not obey the law that mattered most, the Ten Commandments. He was condemned by it, and through his knowledge of those commands much sin was aroused in him. But Saul had been a stickler for the letter of the law. It must be obeyed or he was condemned, for he was an ardent Pharisee. I think many today who grew up with a similar view, earnestly stress grace when they are shown it. I wonder if Christ chose Paul to preach the message because he had been such an ardent Pharisee. Just a few thoughts.
It depends on how you perceive the word "blameless".
If it is referring to outward righteousness only, then coveting would not be included as an indictment on blamelessness.
Concerning outward righteousness Paul was completely blameless.
But he was indeed a Pharisee; so he had cleansed the outside of the cup and platter but the inside of the cup and platter was full of ravening and wickedness (as Jesus put it in Matthew 23:25-28).
When it came to visible righteousness Paul was even perfect.
But Paul, as a Pharisee, was only capable of changing his outward behaviour.
He could not change his own heart.
Only Jesus was able to do that; and in order to obtain that inward cleansing, Paul was willing to forsake his outward blamelessness (Philippians 3:6-9).
It meant becoming genuinely who he was to people; and showing that he was a sinner if that was who he was; so that, as Jesus changed him on the inside, it would be readily seen on the outside because now, he was walking in the light (1 John 1:7) and therefore his outward behaviour more readily reflected who he was on the inside.
If it is referring to outward righteousness only, then coveting would not be included as an indictment on blamelessness.
Concerning outward righteousness Paul was completely blameless.
But he was indeed a Pharisee; so he had cleansed the outside of the cup and platter but the inside of the cup and platter was full of ravening and wickedness (as Jesus put it in Matthew 23:25-28).
When it came to visible righteousness Paul was even perfect.
But Paul, as a Pharisee, was only capable of changing his outward behaviour.
He could not change his own heart.
Only Jesus was able to do that; and in order to obtain that inward cleansing, Paul was willing to forsake his outward blamelessness (Philippians 3:6-9).
It meant becoming genuinely who he was to people; and showing that he was a sinner if that was who he was; so that, as Jesus changed him on the inside, it would be readily seen on the outside because now, he was walking in the light (1 John 1:7) and therefore his outward behaviour more readily reflected who he was on the inside.
Rom 8:12 (kjv), Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:12 (NLT), Therefore, dear brothers and sisters, you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do.
Rom 8:4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
1Jo 3:5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jo 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Rom 8:12 (NLT), Therefore, dear brothers and sisters, you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do.
Rom 8:4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
1Jo 3:5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jo 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Paul referred to the Corinthian church as ''The church of God''
Did the corinthians commit sin?
They were worldly/carnal, with jealousy and quarelling amongst each other. They took each other to court, instead of sorting out problems privately. They allowed a man sleeping with his Father's wife to remain in the church. Some of them got drunk during communion. Some ate all the food so others went hungry.
Did Paul not understand what John believed, was he so wrong?
Did the corinthians commit sin?
They were worldly/carnal, with jealousy and quarelling amongst each other. They took each other to court, instead of sorting out problems privately. They allowed a man sleeping with his Father's wife to remain in the church. Some of them got drunk during communion. Some ate all the food so others went hungry.
Did Paul not understand what John believed, was he so wrong?
like your username, that is cool.
the reason that bilk said Paul contradicts Jesus is she has hebrew roots beliefs, which are that Paul's words are inspired, but not authoritative Scripture, there is no old and new Covenant, but a " renewed" Covenant, and one has to keep the jewish Sabbath to be saved...
i could go on, just wanted to let you know where she was coming from...
the reason that bilk said Paul contradicts Jesus is she has hebrew roots beliefs, which are that Paul's words are inspired, but not authoritative Scripture, there is no old and new Covenant, but a " renewed" Covenant, and one has to keep the jewish Sabbath to be saved...
i could go on, just wanted to let you know where she was coming from...