Galatian Conundrums

PS · Oct 6, 2019

Rom 16:25-27 KJV
(25) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
(27) To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

The above was written by Paul to the Romans. You know Paul went to the Gentiles with his message. It was the same gospel message that had been given to the Jews, but it had been hidden from the Gentiles from the foundation of the earth.

PS · Oct 6, 2019

The New Living Translation puts it best.

Rom 16:25-27 NLT
(25) Now all glory to God, who is able to make you strong, just as my Good News says. This message about Jesus Christ has revealed his plan for you Gentiles, a plan kept secret from the beginning of time.
(26) But now as the prophets foretold and as the eternal God has commanded, this message is made known to all Gentiles everywhere, so that they too might believe and obey him.
(27) All glory to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, forever. Amen.

PS · Oct 6, 2019

Greeting
Rom 1:1 This letter is from Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus, chosen by God to be an apostle and sent out to preach his Good News.
Rom 1:2 God promised this Good News long ago through his prophets in the holy Scriptures.
Rom 1:3 The Good News is about his Son. In his earthly life he was born into King David’s family line,
Rom 1:4 and he was shown to be the Son of God when he was raised from the dead by the power of the Holy Spirit. He is Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 1:5 Through Christ, God has given us the privilege and authority as apostles to tell Gentiles everywhere what God has done for them, so that they will believe and obey him, bringing glory to his name.
Rom 1:6 And you are included among those Gentiles who have been called to belong to Jesus Christ.
Rom 1:7 I am writing to all of you in Rome who are loved by God and are called to be his own holy people. May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.

Even the Gentiles are God's Holy people, praise His wonderful name.

(I may turn to the NLT more often. I bought it from E-Sword.)

garee · Oct 6, 2019

Guojing said:

You are simply preaching another gospel . There is only one gospel. The gospel of Christ. My gospel, Paul gospel as well as everyone else's. We have the power of it in us but would never divide it up and pretend there is more than one. Christ is simply not divided .

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

The commandment is that we do not know any man after the flesh. . . it clearly includes Jewish flesh . Like the flesh of Jesus who made it clear it profits for zero, nothing.

Its the unseen Spirit that works in man that can profit. We walk by faith, the unseen eternal, not by sight the temporal seen .

We are new creatures as the bride of Christ the church . . . no longer Jew or gentile, male of feamale .What we areaready is not what we will be.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.2 Corithians 5:16

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.John 6 :63

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

PS · Oct 6, 2019

garee said:

You are simply preaching another gospel . There is only one gospel. The gospel of Christ. My gospel, Paul gospel as well as everyone else's. We have the power of it in us but would never divide it up and pretend there is more than one. Christ is simply not divided .

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

The commandment is that we do not know any man after the flesh. . . it clearly includes Jewish flesh . Like the flesh of Jesus who made it clear it profits for zero, nothing.

Its the unseen Spirit that works in man that can profit. We walk by faith, the unseen eternal, not by sight the temporal seen .

We are new creatures as the bride of Christ the church . . . no longer Jew or gentile, male of feamale .What we areaready is not what we will be.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.2 Corithians 5:16

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.John 6 :63

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

One God, One Message to all nations, from whom it had previously been hidden. Please confirm if that is what you believe.

Jesus came to the Jews first.

PS · Oct 6, 2019

Sorry Garee, that was for the other guy.

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 6, 2019

Grandpa said:

And yet, in Acts 3, this is exactly what Peter is saying to "ye men of Israel".

That they had overlooked/bypassed the "Suffering Servant" aspects of the prophecies concerning Him (expecting only the "Reigning King" aspects of the prophecies concerning Him), and thus (by doing so) having (themselves) a hand in fulfilling those very prophecies (the "Suffering Servant" ones, which they had overlooked/bypassed).

The following is a post I made on that, some time back:

[quoting--only read this if you care to think further on what I stated above; if not, it's fine, plz disregard]

Acts 3:21 [speaking to "ye men of Israel," v.12 (unsaved persons as noted in v.13-15,17,19)] then states: "whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age."
[in contrast to that which He had theretofore kept "hidden in God"/was as yet undisclosed]

In vv.13 and 26 the phrase "His Servant Jesus" (they had not been expecting the "suffering servant" aspects of His Person, only the "reigning-in-power King" aspects, though both aspects had been prophesied in the OT; chpt 3's point is Peter telling them they'd overlooked the former of these two aspects ['His Suffering Servant'], and thus had a hand [themselves] in fulfilling that very thing, vv.13-15), but this was not saying that "everything" was at this point in time (the time of Acts 3) fully fulfilled; and...

...there are TWO "raise" senses spoken of in Acts 3... v.15 speaking of His being "raised from the dead," but the other being "raised" to a position of prominence BEFORE His death (that is, to the position of 'a Prophet like unto Moses'...'raise up unto you of your brethren like unto me [Moses]; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you' and 'UNTO YOU FIRST God, having raised up [to a position of prominence BEFORE His death] His Servant Jesus, SENT him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities'). The "ALL things which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets" (meaning, OT prophecies) have not yet been fully fulfilled, but remain for a yet-future time

[end quoting that post]

The point Peter is making in Acts 3, is that BECAUSE they had overlooked/bypassed the "Suffering Servant" aspects of the OT prophecies concerning Him, they thus had a hand in fulfilling those very prophecies, in having Him "killed" (etc), vv.13-15.

Amillennialists (and other views) are notorious for missing the point here in Acts 3. Peter is NOT saying (in this text) "all is [now] fully fulfilled"... he's saying, (essentially), "you MISSED the parts where He's a 'Suffering Servant' in all of the OT prophecies concerning Him ["His SERVANT Jesus" vv.13,26], and therefore you participated in fulfilling THOSE" (by your rejection of Him and having Him put to death)… He's not saying "this is the ENTIRETY of the OT prophecies [concerning Him] NOW [as] FULLY FULFILLED, here [in 'these days']"<--Peter's just saying, THESE DAYS were spoken of TOO (and you MISSED *THOSE/THESE* aspects of the OT prophecies concerning Him, and thus FULFILLED *these* aspects by having a hand, yourselves, in having Him "killed" [etc])

[see John 20:9 also, re: Peter and that other disciple at the sepulchre (it is only said of "that other disciple" [not said of Peter!] that "he saw [the grave clothes] AND BELIEVED")]

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 6, 2019

^ EDIT (compelled to correct this, AGAIN, lol): should read- "[see John 20:9 also, re: Peter and that other disciple at the sepulchre (it is only said of "that other disciple" [not said of Peter!] that "he saw [the linen cloths] AND BELIEVED")]" ("linen-" not grave-, in the text)

Grandpa · Oct 6, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

And yet, in Acts 3, this is exactly what Peter is saying to "ye men of Israel".

That they had overlooked/bypassed the "Suffering Servant" aspects of the prophecies concerning Him (expecting only the "Reigning King" aspects of the prophecies concerning Him), and thus (by doing so) having (themselves) a hand in fulfilling those very prophecies (the "Suffering Servant" ones, which they had overlooked/bypassed).

The following is a post I made on that, some time back:

[quoting--only read this if you care to think further on what I stated above; if not, it's fine, plz disregard]

Acts 3:21 [speaking to "ye men of Israel," v.12 (unsaved persons as noted in v.13-15,17,19)] then states: "whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age."
[in contrast to that which He had theretofore kept "hidden in God"/was as yet undisclosed]

In vv.13 and 26 the phrase "His Servant Jesus" (they had not been expecting the "suffering servant" aspects of His Person, only the "reigning-in-power King" aspects, though both aspects had been prophesied in the OT; chpt 3's point is Peter telling them they'd overlooked the former of these two aspects ['His Suffering Servant'], and thus had a hand [themselves] in fulfilling that very thing, vv.13-15), but this was not saying that "everything" was at this point in time (the time of Acts 3) fully fulfilled; and...

...there are TWO "raise" senses spoken of in Acts 3... v.15 speaking of His being "raised from the dead," but the other being "raised" to a position of prominence BEFORE His death (that is, to the position of 'a Prophet like unto Moses'...'raise up unto you of your brethren like unto me [Moses]; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you' and 'UNTO YOU FIRST God, having raised up [to a position of prominence BEFORE His death] His Servant Jesus, SENT him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities'). The "ALL things which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets" (meaning, OT prophecies) have not yet been fully fulfilled, but remain for a yet-future time

[end quoting that post]

The point Peter is making in Acts 3, is that BECAUSE they had overlooked/bypassed the "Suffering Servant" aspects of the OT prophecies concerning Him, they thus had a hand in fulfilling those very prophecies, in having Him "killed" (etc), vv.13-15.

Amillennialists (and other views) are notorious for missing the point here in Acts 3. Peter is NOT saying (in this text) "all is [now] fully fulfilled"... he's saying, (essentially), "you MISSED the parts where He's a 'Suffering Servant' in all of the OT prophecies concerning Him ["His SERVANT Jesus" vv.13,26], and therefore you participated in fulfilling THOSE" (by your rejection of Him and having Him put to death)… He's not saying "this is the ENTIRETY of the OT prophecies [concerning Him] NOW [as] FULLY FULFILLED, here [in 'these days']"<--Peter's just saying, THESE DAYS were spoken of TOO (and you MISSED *THOSE/THESE* aspects of the OT prophecies concerning Him, and thus FULFILLED *these* aspects by having a hand, yourselves, in having Him "killed" [etc])

[see John 20:9 also, re: Peter and that other disciple at the sepulchre (it is only said of "that other disciple" [not said of Peter!] that "he saw [the grave clothes] AND BELIEVED")]

Even Peter agrees with me. And preached the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus to the Jews and they were saved.

Can't separate the Kingdom of God from what the Lord Jesus did and what was prophesied about what He was going to do.

But those who practiced Judaism got mad that Peter would teach Jews this and Peter went on to tell them that there is no salvation in Judaism. Salvation is ONLY in Jesus Christ.

Sounds like the same Gospel that I know.

Acts 3&4 pretty much shut the door on this little 2 gospel charade, I think. This is Peter, the Apostle to the Jews, teaching unsaved Jews the same Gospel that Paul teaches Gentiles.

Guojing · Oct 6, 2019

Grandpa said:

You are reading what is not there because of your preconceived beliefs

Peter accused the Jews of murdering Jesus and hence they must repent of that act

That is a Long way from preaching that Jesus died for their sins and rose again for their justification

Guojing · Oct 6, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

Good point, thanks to this discussion, I begin to take another look at the parable of the tenants and appreciated the true meaning of the parable so much more.

The Jewish leaders were asking him what authority Jesus has in doing all these things, and in this parable, Jesus revealed what "repentance" really meant in terms of the gospel that he was preaching to them.

The idea of repentance is actually more for the Jews and can be viewed from the parable of the tenants, told in all 3 synoptic gospels. (Matthew 21:28-46; Mark 12:1-12; Luke 20:9-19)

When Jesus and the 12 were preaching from Matt-John, they need to repent of rejecting God their Father in the OT, and believe in his Son is their promised King and Messiah, as foretold by their prophets. The Jewish nation had rejected and killed many of those prophets.

God had mercy on them and now decided to send his Son to them now. But as Jesus told them in the parable of the tenants, they were wicked and decided to slay the son instead, thinking they can then take control of the vineyard. The words they told Pilate was really horrific from this perspective

Matthew 27:24 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

When Jesus was on the cross, he asked his father to forgive them for this act, because they know not what they do, the Father agreed to Jesus request.

So when Peter urged his Jewish brothers at Pentecost to repent (Acts 2:38), they are to repent from their horrific act of murdering the Son of God, and accept him once again as the Son of God and their King, since Jesus's resurrection showed, as Peter stated, he is indeed the Messiah and the Son of God. (Acts 2:36)

But of course the Nation did not, only a remnant of them did, so God blinded the nation temporary, setting his secret plan in motion to save us Gentiles, independent of Israel.

Peter, unlike what so many believe, did not preach to the Jews that Jesus died for their sins and rose again as a sign that all their sins are forever put away.

Peter did not understand this gospel even until after Jesus resurrected, although nearing the end of his life, he seems to understand it a bit better, if you read his farewell letters to the Jews in his epistles.

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 6, 2019

Grandpa said:

I think you are reading too much into what I said.

I'm referring to Jesus' earthly ministry BEFORE His death (which seemed to be your comment I quoted). [this is what vv.26,22,24 is referring to (Acts 3)]

This is referring to AFTER His death/burial/resurrection. I'm not saying Peter didn't preach this AFTER His death/burial/resurrection.

My post (quoting yours) had to do with His earthly ministry BEFORE His death/burial/resurrection/exaltation).

How much did "Peter" know [/understand]" and "preach" His "death/burial/resurrection" (from the OT prophetic scriptures), when even at the sepulchre [empty tomb] he still didn't "know" the scripture "that He must rise again from the dead" (John 20:9) and even later that same evening, Jesus "UPBRAIDED [the eleven]" "because THEY BELIEVED NOT them which had seen Him after He was risen" (Luke 16:14; also v.11, and other verses). That's all I'm saying. Don't read something FURTHER in what I've said, than I actually have said.

I'm saying, they didn't "preach" THIS, until AFTER His death/burial/resurrection! and after He had "UPBRAIDED them with their UNBELIEF and HARDNESS OF HEART [because...]" . Try reading my post again, with this in view.

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 6, 2019

My post had to do with, "how much did they 'grasp' BEFORE His 'death/burial/resurrection'?"

Guojing · Oct 6, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

Haha, reminds me of the exchange I had with another user, Locopy something, hard to spell out, somewhere in this long thread.

He insisted that, even after Peter rebuked Jesus for telling them he would have to die, Peter can still be preaching his death burial and resurrection during the 4 Gospels.

PS · Oct 6, 2019

Guojing said:

What do you say! Wash your mouth out.
Act 4:10-12 KJV
(10) Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
(11) This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
(12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Guojing · Oct 6, 2019

PS said:

You don't understand the meaning of words used in KJV that you quoted from?

whom ye crucified?

And when you quote v11, do you not realized he is making reference to what Jesus said in the parable of the tenants, as I have explained already?

PS · Oct 6, 2019

Guojing said:

He is talking about salvation in Jesus Christ who they crucified. The Lamb upon the throne.

Guojing · Oct 6, 2019

PS said:

Peter is accusing them of having murdered Jesus, as I have already stated.

What are you disagreeing with?

PS · Oct 6, 2019

Guojing said:

They murdered the Saviour of mankind.

Jesus saves is the same message Paul preached.

Guojing · Oct 6, 2019

PS said:

Do you now also go around telling your unbelieving friends that they murdered Jesus, the savior of mankind?

How did they respond to you?

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