Galatian Conundrums

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K

kaylagrl

Guest
People should know what "hyper-dispensationalism" teaches, before they try to address it.

From what I see of his posts, it doesn't appear that he believes "the Church which is His body" started in Acts 9,13,18,28 or the like (as "hyper-dispensationalism" says) [<--instead of Acts 2 (Eph1:20-23 WHEN)]... this doesn't seem to have been his points he's been putting forth. JMHO
One thing I dislike about CC is that people come here and will not say what they truly believe. For instance, I don't believe OSAS, but most people that believe that here will say up front that is what they believe. Some will even say they agree/disagree with parts of tulip and explain that. I appreciate people who are up front with what they believe. Otherwise are you afraid to name it? Quit blowin at the fur and get to the hide for pity sake. I'd give these people a tiny bit of respect if they were honest about what they believe.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
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No, it's not Hebrew Roots, it's what I said it is. Now, name what you believe so people can properly debate it. Thank you.
"Pauline Christianity" (the false doctrine that GotQuestions article is presenting) is something radically different from "Pauline Dispensationalism" (I really wish GotQuestions site would make that clear, for you are not the first person I've come across who has attempted to use it as evidence in these types of discussions [don't feel bad :D ])

It is true that the article is presenting something more akin to "Hebrew Roots" than anything near to "Pauline Dispensationalism" (which GotQuestions is not even covering in this article, at all... not even remotely, nor even making an attempt to say they are. It isn't addressing that at all. So we shouldn't use it in these discussions as if it were pertinent at all. :) It simply isn't.)


It seems to me that RickStudies has presented what his viewpoint of what Galatians 2:7 [vv.7-9] is saying, as clearly as is possible, throughout these threads. JMHO.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
One thing I dislike about CC is that people come here and will not say what they truly believe. For instance, I don't believe OSAS, but most people that believe that here will say up front that is what they believe. Some will even say they agree/disagree with parts of tulip and explain that. I appreciate people who are up front with what they believe. Otherwise are you afraid to name it? Quit blowin at the fur and get to the hide for pity sake. I'd give these people a tiny bit of respect if they were honest about what they believe.
And you notice, it seems to be the same group, or people who believe certain things that do this.

They not only can not properly discern what others believe, you will never get a straight answer what they believe.
 

RickStudies

Active member
Sep 10, 2019
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No, it's not Hebrew Roots, it's what I said it is. Now, name what you believe so people can properly debate it. Thank you.
ἀλλὰ τοὐναντίον ἰδόντες ὅτι πεπίστευμαι τὸ εὐαγγέλιον τῆς ἀκροβυστίας καθὼς Πέτρος τῆς περιτομῆς
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
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He was a gentile, thank you

After this event, paul was sent to gentiles, peter and the rest were to remain in jerusalem,
Except they didn't remain in Jerusalem forever, and Jesus did send them to the gentiles in Mat 28 and Acts 1. So since the word and history cleary shows differntly than you just said will you accept the word?

Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore, as you go, disciple all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you each and every day until the end of the age.”

Acts 1:6-8, " 6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Peter was martyred in Rome about 66-68 AD, during the persecution under Emperor Nero. Origen says Peter was crucified, upside down at his request, because he did not feel he was worthy to die in the same manner as the Messiah.



Andrew went to the "Land of the Man-Eaters," in what is in modern times Russia. Christians there he was the first to bring the gospel to their land. He also preached in Asia Minor, modern-day Turkey, and in Greece, Patrae in Achaia is where he is said to have been crucified on an x-shaped cross he called to the crowds and taught them about Jesus Christ and how they might be saved, thus he was sharing the gospel up until the very time of his death.



Thomas was probably most active in the area east of Syria. Tradition has him preaching as far east as Edessa and India, where the ancient Marthoma Christians revere him as their founder. They claim that he died there when pierced through with the spears of four soldiers.



Philip possibly had a powerful ministry in Carthage in North Africa and then in Asia Minor, in Phrygia and died at Hierapolis. The tomb of the Apostle Phillip is found in Hierapolis where he converted the wife of a Roman proconsul, the proconsul had Philip arrested and cruelly put to death. He was impaled by iron hooks in his ankles and hung upside down to die.



Matthew the tax collector and writer of a Gospel, ministered to the Persians, Parthians, Medes and Ethiopians, he was staked or impaled to the earth by spears and then beheaded.



Bartholomew/Nathaniel had widespread missionary travels attributed to him by tradition: to India with Thomas, back to Armenia, and also to Ethiopia and Southern Arabia. There are various accounts of how he met his death as a martyr for the gospel. Most agree that he was basically flayed to death by whip, where he was literally torn to shreds, martyred in Armenia, he too must have been involved in the Great Commission and taking the good news into that part of the world. Apparently, he became a missionary to Asia Minor.



James the son of Alpheus, is one of at least three James referred to in the New Testament. There is some confusion as to which is which, but this James is reckoned to have ministered in Syria. The Jewish historian Josephus reported the James was thrown down from the temple by the scribes and Pharisees; he was then stoned, and his brains dashed out with a club.



James the son of Zebedee: He was beheaded by Herod Agrippa the 1st shortly before the day of the Passover, in the year 44 or about 11 years after the death of Christ. (Acts 12: 1-2)



Simon the Zealot so the story goes, ministered in Persia and he was was crucified after refusing to sacrifice to the sun god.



Matthais was the apostle chosen to replace Judas in fulfillment of prophecy (Psalm 69:25, 109:8). sentenced to death by the Sanhedrin and stoned.

When Matthias was already dead, the Jews, to hide their malefaction, cut off his head as an enemy of Caesar. According to several historians, the Apostle Matthias was crucified, and indicate that he instead died at Colchis, some even say he was burned.



Jude (Thaddeus): according to tradition Jude taught in Armenia, Syria and Persia where he was martyred by crucifixion. Tradition tells us he was buried in Kara Kalisa in what is now Iran.



John was imprisoned during Domitian's persecution in the middle 90's, he was exiled to the island of Patmos, were he was given visions and wrote the Revelation of Jesus Christ. He was later freed and went to Turkey, perhaps on a mission to establish churches there. John is the only one of the company generally thought to have died a natural death from old age between 90 AD to 120 AD. He was the leader of the church in the Ephesus area and is said to have taken care of Mary the mother of Jesus in his home.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I`ve posted these before but I`ll do it again just for you. Only Paul personalizes his gospel this way. Everyone else was preaching what Jesus taught during His time on earth.

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Ephesians 3
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

1st Corinthians 2
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:



Colossians 1
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
Hi thanks

I would offer Paul does not have another gospel .( His own) He is speaking about the hearing of faith the gospel of Christ. Christ is not divided in that way.

He will not share his glory with the flesh. Even the Son of man Jesus resisted that idea in respect to his temporal flesh. But rather gave glory to the unseen father. (the faith principle)

Personally I am opposed to calling what some call the "four gospels" in the name of men as if it as it is written was of them . (the whole Bible is the gospel )Like many do with the four . Its not the gospel of Mathew , another the gospel Mark and the same with Luke and John. They were used to bring it .It is not of them in a in any shape or form

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us

By revelation he made known unto us the mystery which was kept secret since the world began. Not Paul alone as if Paul was crucified for the sins of the world. We do not compare messengers to messengers as some do. For instance pitting the gospel of James against gospel of Paul. The gospel is after no man

The dispensation of the grace of God which is given us again is not of us. We have the power of grace in us but would never attribute it to an man . I see no reason for making it after Paul

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same "spirit of faith", (the Holy Spirit) according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have "I" spoken; "we" also believe, and therefore speak;


 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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Hi thanks

I would offer Paul does not have another gospel .( His own) He is speaking about the hearing of faith the gospel of Christ. Christ is not divided in that way.

He will not share his glory with the flesh. Even the Son of man Jesus resisted that idea in respect to his temporal flesh. But rather gave glory to the unseen father. (the faith principle)

Personally I am opposed to calling what some call the "four gospels" in the name of men as if it as it is written was of them . (the whole Bible is the gospel )Like many do with the four . Its not the gospel of Mathew , another the gospel Mark and the same with Luke and John. They were used to bring it .It is not of them in a in any shape or form

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us

By revelation he made known unto us the mystery which was kept secret since the world began. Not Paul alone as if Paul was crucified for the sins of the world. We do not compare messengers to messengers as some do. For instance pitting the gospel of James against gospel of Paul. The gospel is after no man

The dispensation of the grace of God which is given us again is not of us. We have the power of grace in us but would never attribute it to an man . I see no reason for making it after Paul

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same "spirit of faith", (the Holy Spirit) according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have "I" spoken; "we" also believe, and therefore speak;
Paul was a Pharisee. He was a Christian persecuting Pharisaical Jew.

If Christ revealed to him that the Mosaic Law was fulfilled, how could there be another gospel given to another Jew that says it is NOT fulfilled????????

If you come to Christ to receive Salvation and Rest from your work at the law then it is a mockery of Christ to continue working at the law.

But, to continue in the traditions of the Jews with your jewish family and friends, should have been no big deal. Such as keeping kosher, taking Saturdays off, celebrating the feasts and festivals... etc. Some of these would be walking a fine line... imo

So, outwardly, they would appear as Jews. But inwardly they would be Christians. They SHOULD have the same misgivings over "celebrating" or "observing" certain rituals as we would.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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689
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Not sure if anyone has posted what Peter said about Paul’s writings. It reminds me of a friend my cousin had staying with him for a while, an old Marine buddy. He had problems understanding what Paul wrote, and none of my explanations appeased him.

Once I realized he would not listen, I simply left him with these words. “14Therefore, beloved, as you anticipate these things, make every effort to be found at peace with Him, without spot or blemish. 15Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brotherPaul also wrote you with the wisdomGod gave him. 16He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.…

These words of Peter were quite prophetic. This friend of my cousin went off the tracks with his beliefs, and spiraled downward to his death.
 

RickStudies

Active member
Sep 10, 2019
782
222
43
Hi thanks

I would offer Paul does not have another gospel .( His own) He is speaking about the hearing of faith the gospel of Christ. Christ is not divided in that way.

He will not share his glory with the flesh. Even the Son of man Jesus resisted that idea in respect to his temporal flesh. But rather gave glory to the unseen father. (the faith principle)

Personally I am opposed to calling what some call the "four gospels" in the name of men as if it as it is written was of them . (the whole Bible is the gospel )Like many do with the four . Its not the gospel of Mathew , another the gospel Mark and the same with Luke and John. They were used to bring it .It is not of them in a in any shape or form

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us

By revelation he made known unto us the mystery which was kept secret since the world began. Not Paul alone as if Paul was crucified for the sins of the world. We do not compare messengers to messengers as some do. For instance pitting the gospel of James against gospel of Paul. The gospel is after no man

The dispensation of the grace of God which is given us again is not of us. We have the power of grace in us but would never attribute it to an man . I see no reason for making it after Paul

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same "spirit of faith", (the Holy Spirit) according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have "I" spoken; "we" also believe, and therefore speak;
Paul said it was his gospel. No other new testament writer did that.


Romans 2:16
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Romans 16:25
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

1 Corinthians 9:17
For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

1 Timothy 1:11
According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

2 Timothy 2:8
Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel
 

RickStudies

Active member
Sep 10, 2019
782
222
43
Not sure if anyone has posted what Peter said about Paul’s writings. It reminds me of a friend my cousin had staying with him for a while, an old Marine buddy. He had problems understanding what Paul wrote, and none of my explanations appeased him.

Once I realized he would not listen, I simply left him with these words. “14Therefore, beloved, as you anticipate these things, make every effort to be found at peace with Him, without spot or blemish. 15Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brotherPaul also wrote you with the wisdomGod gave him. 16He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.…

These words of Peter were quite prophetic. This friend of my cousin went off the tracks with his beliefs, and spiraled downward to his death.

Thx, but I tried posting this one already. They don`t get what Peter is saying.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
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Except they didn't remain in Jerusalem forever, and Jesus did send them to the gentiles in Mat 28 and Acts 1. So since the word and history cleary shows differntly than you just said will you accept the word?

Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore, as you go, disciple all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you each and every day until the end of the age.”

Acts 1:6-8, " 6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Peter was martyred in Rome about 66-68 AD, during the persecution under Emperor Nero. Origen says Peter was crucified, upside down at his request, because he did not feel he was worthy to die in the same manner as the Messiah.



Andrew went to the "Land of the Man-Eaters," in what is in modern times Russia. Christians there he was the first to bring the gospel to their land. He also preached in Asia Minor, modern-day Turkey, and in Greece, Patrae in Achaia is where he is said to have been crucified on an x-shaped cross he called to the crowds and taught them about Jesus Christ and how they might be saved, thus he was sharing the gospel up until the very time of his death.



Thomas was probably most active in the area east of Syria. Tradition has him preaching as far east as Edessa and India, where the ancient Marthoma Christians revere him as their founder. They claim that he died there when pierced through with the spears of four soldiers.



Philip possibly had a powerful ministry in Carthage in North Africa and then in Asia Minor, in Phrygia and died at Hierapolis. The tomb of the Apostle Phillip is found in Hierapolis where he converted the wife of a Roman proconsul, the proconsul had Philip arrested and cruelly put to death. He was impaled by iron hooks in his ankles and hung upside down to die.



Matthew the tax collector and writer of a Gospel, ministered to the Persians, Parthians, Medes and Ethiopians, he was staked or impaled to the earth by spears and then beheaded.



Bartholomew/Nathaniel had widespread missionary travels attributed to him by tradition: to India with Thomas, back to Armenia, and also to Ethiopia and Southern Arabia. There are various accounts of how he met his death as a martyr for the gospel. Most agree that he was basically flayed to death by whip, where he was literally torn to shreds, martyred in Armenia, he too must have been involved in the Great Commission and taking the good news into that part of the world. Apparently, he became a missionary to Asia Minor.



James the son of Alpheus, is one of at least three James referred to in the New Testament. There is some confusion as to which is which, but this James is reckoned to have ministered in Syria. The Jewish historian Josephus reported the James was thrown down from the temple by the scribes and Pharisees; he was then stoned, and his brains dashed out with a club.



James the son of Zebedee: He was beheaded by Herod Agrippa the 1st shortly before the day of the Passover, in the year 44 or about 11 years after the death of Christ. (Acts 12: 1-2)



Simon the Zealot so the story goes, ministered in Persia and he was was crucified after refusing to sacrifice to the sun god.



Matthais was the apostle chosen to replace Judas in fulfillment of prophecy (Psalm 69:25, 109:8). sentenced to death by the Sanhedrin and stoned.

When Matthias was already dead, the Jews, to hide their malefaction, cut off his head as an enemy of Caesar. According to several historians, the Apostle Matthias was crucified, and indicate that he instead died at Colchis, some even say he was burned.



Jude (Thaddeus): according to tradition Jude taught in Armenia, Syria and Persia where he was martyred by crucifixion. Tradition tells us he was buried in Kara Kalisa in what is now Iran.



John was imprisoned during Domitian's persecution in the middle 90's, he was exiled to the island of Patmos, were he was given visions and wrote the Revelation of Jesus Christ. He was later freed and went to Turkey, perhaps on a mission to establish churches there. John is the only one of the company generally thought to have died a natural death from old age between 90 AD to 120 AD. He was the leader of the church in the Ephesus area and is said to have taken care of Mary the mother of Jesus in his home.
A lot pf purity and truth there.
Enter the paulimes to muddy it up with "all they did was preach the wrong gospel,but thankfully paul had the correct one"
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
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All good comments and I wouldn`t bother splitting hairs with anyone who believes in just one gospel. There are however two different groups of churches. The difference between the two is law keeping. The circumcision continued to keep the law and the uncircumcision practiced the liberty given to Gentiles in Acts 15. This is all in the Bible.

Any thoughts?
Any thoughts! One group of stubborn stiff-necked people liked Moses better.