Galatian Conundrums
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just how big is this ego we are dealing with here?
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you might as well just deny Jesus and get it over with
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you might as well just deny Jesus and get it over with
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Well actually this person told me what I think, even though I never said it.
Then proceeded to counter what they said I believed, again even though I never said it.
Also why are you doing this, I am my own person I have nothing to do with anyone else. Is it to put ppl in a box to dehumanize them making them easy to discard and speak down upon? I don;t get it. Bottom line is this person did tell me "what I believe" without me ever saying it. Why pile on? Seems odd.
I see, and you believed Peter understood this so clearly,
Also why are you doing this, I am my own person I have nothing to do with anyone else. Is it to put ppl in a box to dehumanize them making them easy to discard and speak down upon? I don;t get it. Bottom line is this person did tell me "what I believe" without me ever saying it. Why pile on? Seems odd.
How so?
and how is it only a one time event? the word says differnt:
Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."
and how is it only a one time event? the word says differnt:
Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."
@ CharliRenee
Well, it`s too bad you missed the various posts that have the scripture and contention in them. They are lost now, obscured by all the meaningless attacks, accusations and redicule. It`s almost to tiresome to get into again. I would have prefered to talk to you in private but so far my experience here at the club hasn`t pursueded me to get subscription
I`ll throw a few things on the board, maybe something sticks. Hopefully, you`ll see this post. 2 gospels is a useful term when I`m talking to people who know me and are friendly. I guess as a stranger it becomes this sinister sounding idea. I`ll never use it again to address people who aren`t used to me.
The 2 gospel concept is taken from Galatians 2:7. The word gospel appears 2 times in reference to 2 different apostles who led two different groups with 2 different ways of life.
The gospel message of Jesus and the disciples who picked up His torch is salvation of the world by the rise of Israel.
The gospel message of Paul is salvation of the world by the fall of Israel.
Lifestyle of the circumcision/Jews is law keeping. Jewish society was a theocacy and not going to repeat the various reasons for their law keeping at this time.
Lifestyle of uncircumcision/Gentiles + handful of Jews is release from the law as the church standard.
The book of Acts records this law keeping activity ( i.e. Acts 10, Acts 21.) Regardless of denials this is Biblical fact and it is a fact that has helped spawn the Hebrew Roots movement.
Question/ why would God allow this divergance?
Answer/ due to work of Satan on the earth it was necessary for God to keep His real plan a secret. Scripture below proves it if you can percieve it.
“Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,” (Romans 16:25)
“Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.” (1st Corinthians 2:6-10)
“How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel.” (Ephesians 3:3-6)
“Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office.” (Romans 11: 7-13)
Well, it`s too bad you missed the various posts that have the scripture and contention in them. They are lost now, obscured by all the meaningless attacks, accusations and redicule. It`s almost to tiresome to get into again. I would have prefered to talk to you in private but so far my experience here at the club hasn`t pursueded me to get subscription
I`ll throw a few things on the board, maybe something sticks. Hopefully, you`ll see this post. 2 gospels is a useful term when I`m talking to people who know me and are friendly. I guess as a stranger it becomes this sinister sounding idea. I`ll never use it again to address people who aren`t used to me.
The 2 gospel concept is taken from Galatians 2:7. The word gospel appears 2 times in reference to 2 different apostles who led two different groups with 2 different ways of life.
The gospel message of Jesus and the disciples who picked up His torch is salvation of the world by the rise of Israel.
The gospel message of Paul is salvation of the world by the fall of Israel.
Lifestyle of the circumcision/Jews is law keeping. Jewish society was a theocacy and not going to repeat the various reasons for their law keeping at this time.
Lifestyle of uncircumcision/Gentiles + handful of Jews is release from the law as the church standard.
The book of Acts records this law keeping activity ( i.e. Acts 10, Acts 21.) Regardless of denials this is Biblical fact and it is a fact that has helped spawn the Hebrew Roots movement.
Question/ why would God allow this divergance?
Answer/ due to work of Satan on the earth it was necessary for God to keep His real plan a secret. Scripture below proves it if you can percieve it.
“Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,” (Romans 16:25)
“Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.” (1st Corinthians 2:6-10)
“How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel.” (Ephesians 3:3-6)
“Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office.” (Romans 11: 7-13)
You say two gospels but I think that would be stating two different points of destination.
To me...Different methods not different messages...
The OT and the NT is the story, complete and in harmony. There are in fact almost 300 direct quotes from the old testament in the new.
Maybe, I am missing your point, but I say still, a teacher can use many different ways to get the same message to his students. The varying methods have to do with the understanding of the students at a given time. I also repeat that Jesus went to extreme and tragic stakes to tear down the dividing wall.
The law taught in the Old testament pointed to our fallen state, and our inability to do it on our own... our desperate need for a savior. God wants our hearts and communion so much that He gave Himself, His only begotten Son, to bring us back to Him. ....
Hence we are back to what everything is about.... Him.
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Psalms 105:7-10, " 7 He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth. 8 He remembers his covenant forever, the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations, 9 the covenant that he made with Abraham, his sworn promise to Isaac, 10 which he confirmed to Jacob as a statute, to Israel as an everlasting covenant,"
John 10:14-17, " 14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.
John 10:14-17, " 14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.
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ok
I understand that now
thanks for using the quote feature. it really helps
if I may, some people try to come off as superior by twisting what you say or putting words in your mouth and so on
just recognize the tactic for what it is and sorry, but it can take getting used to . there really is no 'why'
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Yes all of us can agree that the ultimate destination is the same, which is to reconcile man to God.
But the message preached during Matt to John, required strict obedience to the law of Moses and was forbidden to be preached to non Jews.
The message preached by Paul was specially for non Jews and did not require law keeping, only belief.
How in the world can anyone come to the conclusion that the 2 messages are the same?
But the message preached during Matt to John, required strict obedience to the law of Moses and was forbidden to be preached to non Jews.
The message preached by Paul was specially for non Jews and did not require law keeping, only belief.
How in the world can anyone come to the conclusion that the 2 messages are the same?
L
Already answered and no I never contradicted myself.
Your the one who fails to understand the truth.
There has only ever been one gospel.
Just because it is experienced by man according to our place in time means nothing.
It like when you were young and you were waiting on the school bus and you would see it far away down the road, then it was there and the door was opening and the children were getting on and then you got on and the bus them took you to school.
It wasn't three busses, it was just one.
Your the one who fails to understand the truth.
There has only ever been one gospel.
Just because it is experienced by man according to our place in time means nothing.
It like when you were young and you were waiting on the school bus and you would see it far away down the road, then it was there and the door was opening and the children were getting on and then you got on and the bus them took you to school.
It wasn't three busses, it was just one.
The 12 were even given the authority from Jesus himself to forgive sins (John 20:21–23 ), so yes, they had far more authority than us now, simply because they were the ones with Jesus in the flesh.
My point, in case you have not realized, is to show you the implication of having the belief that Peter was sent to ALL people. If it was true, and Peter understood that as you have believed in, the events in Acts 10 would not be recorded as what it did:
My point, in case you have not realized, is to show you the implication of having the belief that Peter was sent to ALL people. If it was true, and Peter understood that as you have believed in, the events in Acts 10 would not be recorded as what it did:
- Peter would have no issue going to Cornelius house at all, without having to be prompted by the Holy Spirit thrice.
- Peter would not have to tell Cornelius and the Gentiles there that it was against the law for him to be there.
- Peter would not have been astonished at all that the Holy Spirit was being poured to the Gentiles, even without circumcision nor water baptism.
So when you come to these passages found in the 4 Gospels that tell us precisely what was on Peter's mind during Matt-John
1. Matthew 16:21-22 – Jesus first began to tell them of his death and yet Peter tried to prevent it.
2. Mark 8:31-32 – Another account of Peter rebuking the Lord for speaking about his death.
3. Mark 9:31-32 – After hearing about the death and resurrection of Jesus the disciples “understood not and were afraid to ask him”
4. Luke 9:44-45 – “But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.”
5. Luke 18:31-34 – “And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.”
6. John 2:21-22 – They did not understand the resurrection until after it happened.
7. Mark 16:5-14 – The ladies were afraid when they found the tomb empty. The disciples did not believe after two witnesses testified of the resurrection.
8. Luke 24:1-4 – The ladies were perplexed about what had happened to Jesus.
9. Luke 24:8-12 – The stories of Jesus’ “disappearance” were idle tales. Peter wondered what happened.
10. John 20:2 – Mary Magdalene thought someone had stolen Jesus after he had resurrected.
11. John 20:7-9 – The disciples after seeing the empty tomb believed Mary that someone had stolen Jesus. They did not know about the resurrection yet.
You can still conclude that Peter was preaching the death burial and resurrection of Jesus in the 4 Gospels? Okay then.
1. Matthew 16:21-22 – Jesus first began to tell them of his death and yet Peter tried to prevent it.
2. Mark 8:31-32 – Another account of Peter rebuking the Lord for speaking about his death.
3. Mark 9:31-32 – After hearing about the death and resurrection of Jesus the disciples “understood not and were afraid to ask him”
4. Luke 9:44-45 – “But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.”
5. Luke 18:31-34 – “And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.”
6. John 2:21-22 – They did not understand the resurrection until after it happened.
7. Mark 16:5-14 – The ladies were afraid when they found the tomb empty. The disciples did not believe after two witnesses testified of the resurrection.
8. Luke 24:1-4 – The ladies were perplexed about what had happened to Jesus.
9. Luke 24:8-12 – The stories of Jesus’ “disappearance” were idle tales. Peter wondered what happened.
10. John 20:2 – Mary Magdalene thought someone had stolen Jesus after he had resurrected.
11. John 20:7-9 – The disciples after seeing the empty tomb believed Mary that someone had stolen Jesus. They did not know about the resurrection yet.
You can still conclude that Peter was preaching the death burial and resurrection of Jesus in the 4 Gospels? Okay then.
L
So when you come to these passages found in the 4 Gospels that tell us precisely what was on Peter's mind during Matt-John
1. Matthew 16:21-22 – Jesus first began to tell them of his death and yet Peter tried to prevent it.
2. Mark 8:31-32 – Another account of Peter rebuking the Lord for speaking about his death.
3. Mark 9:31-32 – After hearing about the death and resurrection of Jesus the disciples “understood not and were afraid to ask him”
4. Luke 9:44-45 – “But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.”
5. Luke 18:31-34 – “And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.”
6. John 2:21-22 – They did not understand the resurrection until after it happened.
7. Mark 16:5-14 – The ladies were afraid when they found the tomb empty. The disciples did not believe after two witnesses testified of the resurrection.
8. Luke 24:1-4 – The ladies were perplexed about what had happened to Jesus.
9. Luke 24:8-12 – The stories of Jesus’ “disappearance” were idle tales. Peter wondered what happened.
10. John 20:2 – Mary Magdalene thought someone had stolen Jesus after he had resurrected.
11. John 20:7-9 – The disciples after seeing the empty tomb believed Mary that someone had stolen Jesus. They did not know about the resurrection yet.
You can still conclude that Peter was preaching the death burial and resurrection of Jesus in the 4 Gospels? Okay then.
1. Matthew 16:21-22 – Jesus first began to tell them of his death and yet Peter tried to prevent it.
2. Mark 8:31-32 – Another account of Peter rebuking the Lord for speaking about his death.
3. Mark 9:31-32 – After hearing about the death and resurrection of Jesus the disciples “understood not and were afraid to ask him”
4. Luke 9:44-45 – “But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.”
5. Luke 18:31-34 – “And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.”
6. John 2:21-22 – They did not understand the resurrection until after it happened.
7. Mark 16:5-14 – The ladies were afraid when they found the tomb empty. The disciples did not believe after two witnesses testified of the resurrection.
8. Luke 24:1-4 – The ladies were perplexed about what had happened to Jesus.
9. Luke 24:8-12 – The stories of Jesus’ “disappearance” were idle tales. Peter wondered what happened.
10. John 20:2 – Mary Magdalene thought someone had stolen Jesus after he had resurrected.
11. John 20:7-9 – The disciples after seeing the empty tomb believed Mary that someone had stolen Jesus. They did not know about the resurrection yet.
You can still conclude that Peter was preaching the death burial and resurrection of Jesus in the 4 Gospels? Okay then.
Kind of like you who seems to fail to understand that there was only ever one gospel. That don't change the fact that there is only one gospel and it has always been the same.
L
So you believe you can actually preach something you neither understand and was even rebuking the source for saying the very same thing?
So why wouldn't it be plausible for men to preach the truth not fully understanding what was going to happen. They were preaching that Messiah was here to save his people, they just didn't understand how he was going to save them. They didn't have the benefit of knowing what was going to happen.
You on the other hand have the full story yet deny the truth.
So you actually agree that Peter cannot be preaching the death burial and resurrection of Christ then. You just don't want to say it out clearly?
Why do you keep changing your stand?
FYI, they understood HOW Jesus would save them, provided they repent and believe in Jesus as the Son of God. The Gospel that Peter preached did not require any understanding of Jesus DBR, for the Jews to be saved.
Why do you keep changing your stand?
FYI, they understood HOW Jesus would save them, provided they repent and believe in Jesus as the Son of God. The Gospel that Peter preached did not require any understanding of Jesus DBR, for the Jews to be saved.