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presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Textus Receptus
https://www.skypoint.com › members › waltzmn

To fill out the text, Erasmus made his own Greek translation from the Latin. He admitted to what he had done
This paragraph is talking about certain verses in Revelation. The article deals with problems with specific verses. I do not see any differences in the verses you mentioned in I Corinthians 13. Do you have a source for that? I posted a Byzantine text that had identical wording for the two verses you mentioned.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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Jun 20, 2022
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This paragraph is talking about certain verses in Revelation. The article deals with problems with specific verses. I do not see any differences in the verses you mentioned in I Corinthians 13. Do you have a source for that? I posted a Byzantine text that had identical wording for the two verses you mentioned.
can you twist the article any more to your favor?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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the KJV is the Textus Receptus that Erasmus admits to not using the Original Greek but taking the Latin and retranslating it back to Greek. enjoy your PERVERTED BIBLE!
This is just foolish talk. The Received Text was being constantly refined for about 40 years after Erasmus, and it was the 1550 edition of Stephanus that was actually used in the KJV. At the same time, the translators had a wide range of sources and many more manuscripts, so the KJV text is slightly different. Therefore to call the King James Bible a "PERVERTED BIBLE" is to slander the leading English-language translation of the Bible. Only minions of Satan slander the Word of God.
 
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This is just foolish talk. The Received Text was being constantly refined for about 40 years after Erasmus, and it was the 1550 edition of Stephanus that was actually used in the KJV. At the same time, the translators had a wide range of sources and many more manuscripts, so the KJV text is slightly different. Therefore to call the King James Bible a "PERVERTED BIBLE" is to slander the leading English-language translator of the Bible. Only minions of Satan slander the Word of God.
knowing it was translated from Latin to Greek to English completely ignoring the original Greek, it is not word for word like the 4th century Greek.

when compared to the 4th century Greek, the more authentic version, the TR is not the Same and should not be called the completed Word of god!
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Feb 18, 2019 — Erasmus' reconstruction of this passage, however, does not match up with any Greek manuscripts at several points
As the article had to honestly admit, this was really a non-issue. But the hatred and slander of Erasmus and the TR is not a non-issue. It is an attack on the true text of the Bible.
 
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How many manuscripts agree exactly with Erasmus' edition of the Greek New Testament?
There is no Greek manuscript that agrees exactly with it. Erasmus made it by combining the readings of several manuscripts, none of them earlier than the tenth century A.D., and most of them still later. In some parts of the New Testament he had no manuscript at all, but simply retranslated from the Latin Bible.
 
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As the article had to honestly admit, this was really a non-issue. But the hatred and slander of Erasmus and the TR is not a non-issue. It is an attack on the true text of the Bible.
How many manuscripts agree exactly with Erasmus' edition of the Greek New Testament?
There is no Greek manuscript that agrees exactly with it. Erasmus made it by combining the readings of several manuscripts, none of them earlier than the tenth century A.D., and most of them still later. In some parts of the New Testament he had no manuscript at all, but simply retranslated from the Latin Bible.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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How many manuscripts agree exactly with Erasmus' edition of the Greek New Testament?
There is no Greek manuscript that agrees exactly with it. Erasmus made it by combining the readings of several manuscripts, none of them earlier than the tenth century A.D., and most of them still later. In some parts of the New Testament he had no manuscript at all, but simply retranslated from the Latin Bible.
 
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Then why bother to hunt for early manuscripts? Why not simply follow the textus receptus?
God inspired the manuscripts that came from the hands of the original writers.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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when compared to the 4th century Greek, the more authentic version, the TR is not the Same and should not be called the completed Word of god!
If you are referring to the most corrupt Greek manuscripts which are deemed to be from the 4th century -- Aleph and B -- you do not even have a leg to stand on. Study the matter carefully and see that Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus are two of the most corrupt manuscripts in existence. Had Westcott & Hort not tricked the Revision Committee, they would have still remained in the dust bin as the rejected manuscripts that they are. Erasmus was fully aware of Vaticanus, but he rejected it for good reason.
 
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If you are referring to the most corrupt Greek manuscripts which are deemed to be from the 4th century -- Aleph and B -- you do not even have a leg to stand on. Study the matter carefully and see that Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus are two of the most corrupt manuscripts in existence. Had Westcott & Hort not tricked the Revision Committee, they would have still remained in the dust bin as the rejected manuscripts that they are. Erasmus was fully aware of Vaticanus, but he rejected it for good reason.
from the Christian Publishing House:
FACTS on the TEXTUS RECEPTUS and the KING JAMES VERSION

Allan A. MacRae and Robert C. Newman
Allan Alexander MacRae was an evangelical Christian scholar

Robert C. Newman is Emeritus Professor of New Testament at Biblical Theological Seminary, and Director of the Interdisciplinary Biblical Research Institute.




How many manuscripts agree exactly with Erasmus' edition of the Greek New Testament?
There is no Greek manuscript that agrees exactly with it. Erasmus made it by combining the readings of several manuscripts, none of them earlier than the tenth century A.D., and most of them still later. In some parts of the New Testament he had no manuscript at all, but simply retranslated from the Latin Bible.

Then why bother to hunt for early manuscripts? Why not simply follow the textus receptus?
God inspired the manuscripts that came from the hands of the original writers.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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Allan Alexander MacRae was an evangelical Christian scholar

Robert C. Newman is Emeritus Professor of New Testament at Biblical Theological Seminary, and Director of the Interdisciplinary Biblical Research Institute.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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from the Christian Publishing House:
FACTS on the TEXTUS RECEPTUS and the KING JAMES VERSION

Allan A. MacRae and Robert C. Newman
Allan Alexander MacRae was an evangelical Christian scholar

Robert C. Newman is Emeritus Professor of New Testament at Biblical Theological Seminary, and Director of the Interdisciplinary Biblical Research Institute.




How many manuscripts agree exactly with Erasmus' edition of the Greek New Testament?
There is no Greek manuscript that agrees exactly with it. Erasmus made it by combining the readings of several manuscripts, none of them earlier than the tenth century A.D., and most of them still later. In some parts of the New Testament he had no manuscript at all, but simply retranslated from the Latin Bible.

Then why bother to hunt for early manuscripts? Why not simply follow the textus receptus?
God inspired the manuscripts that came from the hands of the original writers.
if that's not a nail in the coffin then nothing is!

so Erasmus only went as far back to the TENTH CENTURY and in other parts just retranslated the LATIN.

and then this part is a true GIFT unto researchers like myself:
Then why bother to hunt for early manuscripts? Why not simply follow the textus receptus?
God inspired the manuscripts that came from the hands of the original writers.


so from these Scholars and specifically [[Emeritus Professor of New Testament at Biblical Theological Seminary]] is claiming the TR and KJV should not be considered INSPIRED WORD of GOD!
 

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
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tell me something, please, if you would kindly so.

i will give you 2 translations.

tell me if you can see that the meaning itself has changed by what Erasmus has done:


the more authentic 4th Century Greek:

10 when, however, the perfect has come, that; in part shall come to naught.

12 For now we see by means of a mirror in an enigma, but then face to face:




what Erasmus presented:
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face:


for me, there is 2 different meanings between these Versions when it should be the SAME.
Except, of course that both cites say the same thing, so no issue at all.

What "Difference in meanings" do YOU think there is??
 
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Except, of course that both cites say the same thing, so no issue at all.

What "Difference in meanings" do YOU think there is??
i think the first set of Verses listed clearly speaks about Jesus and now we see Him as an Enigma but that will change when we see him "face to face."

the second set of Verses are phrased in a way by using the word "that" before which is perfect to come allows variance and this is where the difference many cessationist use for their emphasis on debating the perfect to come is the finishing of the Bible.

ultimately, the first set of Verses are much clearer. so when the TR Version hit the market, the debate over Gifts Ceasing and Continuing had merit. but if we just stuck to the Original Verses, we would most likely confirm what the Church Fathers claimed the Perfect to Come is when we see God face to face.
 

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
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i think the first set of Verses listed clearly speaks about Jesus and now we see Him as an Enigma but that will change when we see him "face to face."

the second set of Verses are phrased in a way by using the word "that" before which is perfect to come allows variance and this is where the difference many cessationist use for their emphasis on debating the perfect to come is the finishing of the Bible.

ultimately, the first set of Verses are much clearer. so when the TR Version hit the market, the debate over Gifts Ceasing and Continuing had merit. but if we just stuck to the Original Verses, we would most likely confirm what the Church Fathers claimed the Perfect to Come is when we see God face to face.
SO- nothing but your imagination, then. Very convincing!!!
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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for those who know how i stand on what 1 Corinthians 13:10 & 12 mean is because of this:


here's what the real writing of Paul states:

10 when, however, the perfect has come, that; in part shall come to naught.

12 For now we see by means of a mirror in an enigma, but then face to face:




here's why i don't trust the Modern Versions because they are not translated from the Greek itself:

To fill out the text, Erasmus made his own Greek translation from the Latin. He admitted to what he had done

Feb 18, 2019 — Erasmus' reconstruction of this passage, however, does not match up with any Greek manuscripts at several points

Mar 9, 2019 — The Textus Receptus was clearly made unreliable by errors or alterations by being changed from the original form of the Greek New Testament.

^

***anyone following the Textus Receptus will NEVER discover the truth on any major Scripture point since Erasmus [[((ADMITTED))]] to creating a Greek Text by translating the Latin Vulgate into Greek, which does not even match the original Greek to Latin!***
I have a question for you. If Hebrew cannot be translated fully into Greek or Greek fully translated into Latin, how can all three be 100% translated into English? When the English language is even know the real word as an example: for At-one-ment?


Also, the word Love in the Hebrew and Greek are different. The truth is that the English language cannot fully provide 100% translation we do have more than enough for Salvation, righteous living, and worship of God.

Also, if the Textus receptus is errored of only 1cor 13:8-10, why are they correct for the three unit chapters starting at chapters 12 through 14? And what are you not taking issue with chapters and verses which were not in Hebrew or Greek but added much later that every version or translation you accept uses in addition to the KJV?

Thank you
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,160
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can you twist the article any more to your favor?
There is nothing about 'to 'my favor'' here. I do not hold to a doctrine that the Textus Receptus or HV are flawless. You expressed your distrust of two verses in the Textus Receptus for which I showed a word for word exact version from a cite with a Byzantine text.

The article you posted gave a laundry list of specific issues with the Textus Receptus. I did not see those two verses in the list.