For those why deny the Deity of Jesus Christ.
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I gave the verses that have the word YOU gave, which was used only nine times and translated as Scripture every time. I showed you the concordance translations. Why say I am changing the language? You are doing that to suit your own self. Letters is a different word entirely. epistolais
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The LORD will raise up individuals from amongst the people and put the words of truth in their mouth, since faith comes by hearing and hearing by the words of truth, then seeing that the LORD is a God of truth, which by inference is the Spirit of truth, which is not to say that any man hath seen the Holy Ghost, save him who is of truth, he hath seen the Father.
Shew me a token for good;
Why is not Abraham justified before God for sacrificing his son Isaac to the angel of the Lord at Genesis 22? 
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
(Genesis 1:26)
(Genesis 1:26)
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
(Romans 8:29)
(Romans 8:29)
Come on zmouth, where do you come up with this stuff because it sure ain't what the Bible teaches? You ask, "What is that nature which the eternal God and Jesus share?" God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit have the same nature which is "Deity." It's just like you and me and every other person that have the same nature of "human." Our nature is what separates all of us from those who are not human.
Cats beget other cats, beavers beget other beavers, human beget other humans and God begets God. This is why Jesus Christ is the "One and Only begotten Son of God" as in there are no others. John 3:16. Also, according to John 1:18 Jesus Christ is the "ONLY" physical manifestation of God.
Furhtermore, the Holy Spirit of God can't been seen because He is spirit and you can't see spirit. You said, "show me a penny." Well, look at Hebrews 1:3 where it says Jesus is the "radiance of His/God the Father's glory and the exact representation of His NATURE." Giving money to the image of Caesar has nothing to do with anything. Any other questions zmouth?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Cats beget other cats, beavers beget other beavers, human beget other humans and God begets God. This is why Jesus Christ is the "One and Only begotten Son of God" as in there are no others. John 3:16. Also, according to John 1:18 Jesus Christ is the "ONLY" physical manifestation of God.
Furhtermore, the Holy Spirit of God can't been seen because He is spirit and you can't see spirit. You said, "show me a penny." Well, look at Hebrews 1:3 where it says Jesus is the "radiance of His/God the Father's glory and the exact representation of His NATURE." Giving money to the image of Caesar has nothing to do with anything. Any other questions zmouth?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Excuse me chucky you said this, "And because He existed before He was born as a man, does not make Him God." Since I'm the one that started this thread can you please explain the following question I ask here?
"Since some of you deny the Deity of Jesus Christ which also means He did not preexist His incarnation as a man I have a question? Why is Jesus Christ who is the one and only begotten Son of God identified or presented as the Agent of creation at John 1:-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:10 and at Revelation 3:14 by the Apostles and by His own Father? Please read the verses before you answer."
Secondly, you made this statement. "My Lord "and" my God. He was a man that was born of the Spirit." Can you please explain to all of us here on what basis was Jesus Christ born of the Spirit since He was sinless and only sinners have to be born again?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
"Since some of you deny the Deity of Jesus Christ which also means He did not preexist His incarnation as a man I have a question? Why is Jesus Christ who is the one and only begotten Son of God identified or presented as the Agent of creation at John 1:-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:10 and at Revelation 3:14 by the Apostles and by His own Father? Please read the verses before you answer."
Secondly, you made this statement. "My Lord "and" my God. He was a man that was born of the Spirit." Can you please explain to all of us here on what basis was Jesus Christ born of the Spirit since He was sinless and only sinners have to be born again?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
God sent His Son. Is that really hard to understand. Father. Son. God/Son of God. Two separate entities though never separated except at the cross when the Father had to turn away briefly. Father, why has thou forsaken me.
2nd question
He was initially born of the Spirit through a virgin. I never said He was reborn. He did rise from death but the same as He was. We will be made new.
Yes chucky, God the Father did send His only begotten Son because that is what the Scriptures say. In fact Jesus said at John 3:13, "And no one has ascended into heaven but He who DESCENDED from heaven, the Son of Man." And John 3:17, "For God did not send the Son into the world." Or John 6:38, "For I HAVE COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN , not to do My own will, but the will OF HIM WHO SENT ME."
Then there is good ole Isaiah 9:6, "For a child will be born to us, a son WILL BE GIVEN TO US." To be given means He already existed. Secondly, it also means Jesus Christ is not a created being like the rest of us and the other verses in John that I gave confirm this fact.
Now, you still did not address my question, why? Here it is again. "Why is Jesus Christ who is the one and only begotten Son of God identified or presented as the Agent of creation at John 1:-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:10 and at Revelation 3:14 by the Apostles and by His own Father? Please read the verses before you answer."
As far as your second question Matthew 1:20, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for that which HAS BEEN CONCEIVED IN HER IS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT." In other words the birth of Jesus Christ was a miracle and He was not created like the rest of us. Btw, as a side note Jesus Christ was "NOT" forsaken by His Father on that cross, I'll tell you why a little later. So, please deal with my question?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Then there is good ole Isaiah 9:6, "For a child will be born to us, a son WILL BE GIVEN TO US." To be given means He already existed. Secondly, it also means Jesus Christ is not a created being like the rest of us and the other verses in John that I gave confirm this fact.
Now, you still did not address my question, why? Here it is again. "Why is Jesus Christ who is the one and only begotten Son of God identified or presented as the Agent of creation at John 1:-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:10 and at Revelation 3:14 by the Apostles and by His own Father? Please read the verses before you answer."
As far as your second question Matthew 1:20, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for that which HAS BEEN CONCEIVED IN HER IS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT." In other words the birth of Jesus Christ was a miracle and He was not created like the rest of us. Btw, as a side note Jesus Christ was "NOT" forsaken by His Father on that cross, I'll tell you why a little later. So, please deal with my question?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
You seem to be a little demanding in your requests.
First you admit by scripture that Jesus came to do the Fathers will as so said Himself.
I have not come to do my will, but the will of the Father who sent me.
Do you agree He by saying that is saying they are two separate beings?
Or all you promoting God and Jesus are one being.
Lets get past this first. one topic at a time if you don't mind.
First you admit by scripture that Jesus came to do the Fathers will as so said Himself.
I have not come to do my will, but the will of the Father who sent me.
Do you agree He by saying that is saying they are two separate beings?
Or all you promoting God and Jesus are one being.
Lets get past this first. one topic at a time if you don't mind.
No, I'm not being "demanding." I'm asking a reasonable question? You may think it's demanding but experience has taught me that when people cannot address or give a "cogent" answer to a question they often change the subject, like your doing.
So I'll tell you what, I will address your question? No, God the Father and His Son are not two "separate" beings. They are two "distinct" persons and how they are one is in their shared nature. Just like you and I share the same nature which is "human" we are not the same person, we are distinct persons. There is a difference between the definition of "separate" and of "distinct" even though the words are synonymous. The same holds true of the words, "person" and "being." They do not mean the same thing and if you want I can give examples of the difference.
And btw, I am not disputing in any way that Jesus Christ came to do the Father's will, that's a given and is taught throughout the New Testament. So now it's your turn or if you want ask any question you like.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
So I'll tell you what, I will address your question? No, God the Father and His Son are not two "separate" beings. They are two "distinct" persons and how they are one is in their shared nature. Just like you and I share the same nature which is "human" we are not the same person, we are distinct persons. There is a difference between the definition of "separate" and of "distinct" even though the words are synonymous. The same holds true of the words, "person" and "being." They do not mean the same thing and if you want I can give examples of the difference.
And btw, I am not disputing in any way that Jesus Christ came to do the Father's will, that's a given and is taught throughout the New Testament. So now it's your turn or if you want ask any question you like.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
You are kind of hard to talk to.
But I will assume you know they are actually two separate persons.
So why continue. The thread is about if Jesus is the Father.
And you agreed he is not. Dispute settled.
Just to clarify my stance
Yes, He is the Creator of this place.
When I pray to the Father, I pray through Jesus.
He is our God because He has been granted it by the Father.
Whether or not He is created by the Father or always existed
I don't know. That could be our next topic. If I had to guess
what I remember off the top of my head..
I would say Created by the Father. But I haven't researched
that enough to know for sure. And it really isn't that important
to me as there are many ignored important things preached
by Him, the disciples and the prophets that are not preached.
Like all peoples are saved. I mainly study that the most.
But I will assume you know they are actually two separate persons.
So why continue. The thread is about if Jesus is the Father.
And you agreed he is not. Dispute settled.
Just to clarify my stance
Yes, He is the Creator of this place.
When I pray to the Father, I pray through Jesus.
He is our God because He has been granted it by the Father.
Whether or not He is created by the Father or always existed
I don't know. That could be our next topic. If I had to guess
what I remember off the top of my head..
I would say Created by the Father. But I haven't researched
that enough to know for sure. And it really isn't that important
to me as there are many ignored important things preached
by Him, the disciples and the prophets that are not preached.
Like all peoples are saved. I mainly study that the most.
I would not say I'm hard to talk to but rather I get to the point of what I'm saying. Secondly, this thread is "NOT" about Jesus being the Father. I ought to know because I started the thread and if you had read the very first post there is nothing in there about Jesus being the Father. I ask a very specific question? Thirdly, if you would have taken the time to read my last post I specically stated that God the Father and God the Son are "distinct" persons and not separate persons, there's a difference.
Let me illustrate what I mean. Picture a tricycle, the wheels on this vehicle are distinct from one another, but are still tied in to one another. The wheels are NOT SEPARATE from one another or the bike would be unable to move. Do you see the difference between the two words, separate and distinct. The same principle holds true for the Trinity. The persons of the Trinity are "distinct" persons, if the persons of the Trinity are "separate" it would imply the Trinity is three separate beings or three gods.
You also stated the following: "Yes, He is the Creator of this place." John 1:3 states, "ALL things came into being by Him, and apart (or without Him) nothing came into being that has come into being." Colossians 1:16 says, "For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and the earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authortites--all things have been created BY HIM AND FOR HIM." This means Jesus not only created "this place" as you said but He created time and space.
Regarding your another statement of yours. "He is our God because He has been granted it by the Father." No, Jesus Christ is our God because He is the one God. What your doing is "conflating" the word pesons with being. There is a difference between the word "person" and the word "being." Being mean the state or quality of having existence. Something that exist like an object, an idea, or a symbol that simply exists.
Person is defined as all the qualities CONSTITUTING ONE THAT EXISTS; the essence or nature of something that exists. This would include ones personality or attributes.
Finally you said this: "
Whether or not He is created by the Father or always existed
I don't know. That could be our next topic. If I had to guess
what I remember off the top of my head..
I would say Created by the Father. But I haven't researched
that enough to know for sure. And it really isn't that important
to me as there are many ignored important things preached
by Him, the disciples and the prophets that are not preached.
Like all peoples are saved. I mainly study that the most.[/QUOTE]"
I already explained this above and you darn well better believe this stuff is extremely important. What do you mean by saying many important things are ignored? What things? And where did you get the idea that "all peoples are saved?" You say you mainly study that the most." Really, from who? Is it in the Bible, or are you a "Universalist" or Unitarian? Please, tell me more about it chucky?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Let me illustrate what I mean. Picture a tricycle, the wheels on this vehicle are distinct from one another, but are still tied in to one another. The wheels are NOT SEPARATE from one another or the bike would be unable to move. Do you see the difference between the two words, separate and distinct. The same principle holds true for the Trinity. The persons of the Trinity are "distinct" persons, if the persons of the Trinity are "separate" it would imply the Trinity is three separate beings or three gods.
You also stated the following: "Yes, He is the Creator of this place." John 1:3 states, "ALL things came into being by Him, and apart (or without Him) nothing came into being that has come into being." Colossians 1:16 says, "For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and the earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authortites--all things have been created BY HIM AND FOR HIM." This means Jesus not only created "this place" as you said but He created time and space.
Regarding your another statement of yours. "He is our God because He has been granted it by the Father." No, Jesus Christ is our God because He is the one God. What your doing is "conflating" the word pesons with being. There is a difference between the word "person" and the word "being." Being mean the state or quality of having existence. Something that exist like an object, an idea, or a symbol that simply exists.
Person is defined as all the qualities CONSTITUTING ONE THAT EXISTS; the essence or nature of something that exists. This would include ones personality or attributes.
Finally you said this: "
Whether or not He is created by the Father or always existed
I don't know. That could be our next topic. If I had to guess
what I remember off the top of my head..
I would say Created by the Father. But I haven't researched
that enough to know for sure. And it really isn't that important
to me as there are many ignored important things preached
by Him, the disciples and the prophets that are not preached.
Like all peoples are saved. I mainly study that the most.[/QUOTE]"
I already explained this above and you darn well better believe this stuff is extremely important. What do you mean by saying many important things are ignored? What things? And where did you get the idea that "all peoples are saved?" You say you mainly study that the most." Really, from who? Is it in the Bible, or are you a "Universalist" or Unitarian? Please, tell me more about it chucky?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
What part of John 1:3 don't you understand? "ALL things came into beingby Him and apart from (or without Him) nothing came into being that has come into being." Or Colossians 1:16, "For by Him ALL THINGS WERE CREATED, (Would that not include these other sons your talking about whoever they are) both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorties--ALL THINGS HAVE BEEN CREATED BY HIM AND FOR HIM." So does that answer your question jaybird? You do believe these verses, right jaybird?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
"
I already explained this above and you darn well better believe this stuff is extremely important. What do you mean by saying many important things are ignored? What things? And where did you get the idea that "all peoples are saved?" You say you mainly study that the most." Really, from who? Is it in the Bible, or are you a "Universalist" or Unitarian? Please, tell me more about it chucky?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto[/QUOTE]
I am not affiliated with the Universalists church.
I don't answer to universalist. It is a new word and does not exist in the Bible.
I used to go to a typical Christian church but had many conficts of what was taught vs what is actually written.
So I went directly to the source, the Bible.
John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
John 17:2
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
1 Tim 4:9-11
9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer
reproach, because we trust in the living God,
who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that
believe.
11 These things command and teach.
There are many. It appears you are not familiar with them.
I already explained this above and you darn well better believe this stuff is extremely important. What do you mean by saying many important things are ignored? What things? And where did you get the idea that "all peoples are saved?" You say you mainly study that the most." Really, from who? Is it in the Bible, or are you a "Universalist" or Unitarian? Please, tell me more about it chucky?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto[/QUOTE]
I am not affiliated with the Universalists church.
I don't answer to universalist. It is a new word and does not exist in the Bible.
I used to go to a typical Christian church but had many conficts of what was taught vs what is actually written.
So I went directly to the source, the Bible.
John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
John 17:2
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
1 Tim 4:9-11
9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer
reproach, because we trust in the living God,
who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that
believe.
11 These things command and teach.
There are many. It appears you are not familiar with them.
What part of John 1:3 don't you understand? "ALL things came into beingby Him and apart from (or without Him) nothing came into being that has come into being." Or Colossians 1:16, "For by Him ALL THINGS WERE CREATED, (Would that not include these other sons your talking about whoever they are) both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorties--ALL THINGS HAVE BEEN CREATED BY HIM AND FOR HIM." So does that answer your question jaybird? You do believe these verses, right jaybird?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
There is a more civil way to come to a dialog with someone.
Here are some more verses Bluto
You do believe these verses now that you have seen them, right Bluto? : )
1 Tim 2:3-6
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of
God our Savior;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto
the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God
and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in
due time.
Col 1
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus
Rom 5
19 For as by one man's disobedience >many< were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall >many< be made righteous.
(How many were made sinners? It says that same "many will be made righteous.)
Romans 11
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
These and many other put the Good back in the Gospel being called "Good News"
You do believe these verses now that you have seen them, right Bluto? : )
1 Tim 2:3-6
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of
God our Savior;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto
the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God
and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in
due time.
Col 1
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus
Rom 5
19 For as by one man's disobedience >many< were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall >many< be made righteous.
(How many were made sinners? It says that same "many will be made righteous.)
Romans 11
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
These and many other put the Good back in the Gospel being called "Good News"