Feeling angry and helpless and alone

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Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,581
3,615
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#61
It's all in the title. If anyone wants to take a shot at me, come get me.

I've been raised a Christian. I've been a Christian for 8 years. I could recite the Gospel backwards. And yet I've always had a serious problem with one of the most important doctrines and the one we claim sets us free: grace.

Why? Because grace is often used as a license to sin. Grace apparently means even the most evil person who ever lived can go to heaven and never suffer the consequences for any of his horrific evils, simply by "accepting Jesus." I'm sorry, but nothing anyone can say can convince me that certain people can be forgiven.

I've never been abused, raped, or anything. This has nothing to do with me. It's about me feeling powerless to do anything about the suffering I see around me. And it infuriates me.
Jesus said:

Matthew 7: KJV
1 "Judge not, that ye be not judged. {2} For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

You are declaring that others shall not be forgiven their sins.. And this preaching puts you under the same judgement.. Do you want to be forgiven your sins?

You better change your stance..
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
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58
HBG. Pa. USA
#62
David did not commit adultery. He committed rape. Bathsheba had no choice in the matter.
David took another man's wife, that is adultery. Bathsheba had a choice, she chose to bath on the house top.

But what can I do? I'm just one person.
Not I but Christ. Christ in you the hope of Glory.


And like I said, apparently all we have to do is say, "I'm sorry." Well, I believe in just punishment.
God is Love and as HE is so are we in this world.
 

TooFastTurtle

Active member
Apr 10, 2019
460
247
43
#63
It's all in the title. If anyone wants to take a shot at me, come get me.

I've been raised a Christian. I've been a Christian for 8 years. I could recite the Gospel backwards. And yet I've always had a serious problem with one of the most important doctrines and the one we claim sets us free: grace.

Why? Because grace is often used as a license to sin. Grace apparently means even the most evil person who ever lived can go to heaven and never suffer the consequences for any of his horrific evils, simply by "accepting Jesus." I'm sorry, but nothing anyone can say can convince me that certain people can be forgiven.
The Bible warns us of this kind of grace, it is not the biblical grace.

Jude 1:4
For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

You have been subjected to people who have fallen for the heresy of "easy believism" as it is commonly called. I suggest you read 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21 and come back to me and tell me you can just "believe in Jesus" and remain a vile sinner and inherit the Kingdom. Bible teaches no such thing.

Do not be discouraged.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,055
1,524
113
#64
hello i say as friend that its best not to feel too high minded like those other people are bad.

Luke 18:8-14 King James Version (KJV)
I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
 
Sep 29, 2019
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#65
It's all in the title. If anyone wants to take a shot at me, come get me.

I've been raised a Christian. I've been a Christian for 8 years. I could recite the Gospel backwards. And yet I've always had a serious problem with one of the most important doctrines and the one we claim sets us free: grace.

Why? Because grace is often used as a license to sin. Grace apparently means even the most evil person who ever lived can go to heaven and never suffer the consequences for any of his horrific evils, simply by "accepting Jesus." I'm sorry, but nothing anyone can say can convince me that certain people can be forgiven.

I've never been abused, raped, or anything. This has nothing to do with me. It's about me feeling powerless to do anything about the suffering I see around me. And it infuriates me.
Maybe the acceptance of God's grace is only the beginning. I find it interesting that in the near death experience that people have during cardiac arrests etc. is the realisation of love. And that during that experience the soul has to experience every action and word done to others, as though it was done to oneself. Now that would be a learning experience!
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,572
9,091
113
#66
Well, I would expect as much from Satan's children. They truly will do anything to avoid confronting the truth of God. Well praise Jesus anyways.
Up until THIS post I didn't understand why this person was banned.

You can't call people "satan's children".
 

Heyjude

Active member
Sep 7, 2019
277
121
43
#67
Jesus said:

Matthew 7: KJV
1 "Judge not, that ye be not judged. {2} For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

You are declaring that others shall not be forgiven their sins.. And this preaching puts you under the same judgement.. Do you want to be forgiven your sins?

You better change your stance..
Indeed how true those words are. History Princess, haven't you ever done anything that you were glad you were forgiven for? How would you have felt if that forgiveness was NOT given? Jesus pleaded for the forgiveness of his tormentors, even whilst he was being crucified and killed.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#68
David took another man's wife, that is adultery. Bathsheba had a choice, she chose to bath on the house top.

Not I but Christ. Christ in you the hope of Glory.


God is Love and as HE is so are we in this world.
Where does it say she was bathing on the roof? And congratulations, you said one of the things that infuriates me the most. Rape is NEVER the victim’s fault. David should’ve been with his men. And no she didn’t have a choice. The king sent for her, and no one defies the king’s order. Besides, why does the story Nathan tells David present Bathsheba as a completely innocent lamb if she was just as guilty as David was.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#69
Many Christians have learned this story as the sordid tale of a sexual affair in which Bathsheba is just as guilty as David. This is not true. When David sees her, Bathsheba is engaged in ritual washing as prescribed in Leviticus 15, doing so at the time of day clearly outlined in the Torah. She is not trying to seduce David or anyone else. She is not “asking for it.” She is obeying God.

When David summons Bathsheba, she has no choice in the matter. The power dynamic at play here gives her no real opportunity to say “no.” That is rape. Furthermore, neither in this story nor anywhere else in the Bible is any blame laid at Bathsheba’s feet. She is innocent.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#70
Indeed how true those words are. History Princess, haven't you ever done anything that you were glad you were forgiven for? How would you have felt if that forgiveness was NOT given? Jesus pleaded for the forgiveness of his tormentors, even whilst he was being crucified and killed.
No he didn’t. He prayed for men like the Roman soldier. The Pharisees knew who Jesus was, and they hated him.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#71
Maybe the acceptance of God's grace is only the beginning. I find it interesting that in the near death experience that people have during cardiac arrests etc. is the realisation of love. And that during that experience the soul has to experience every action and word done to others, as though it was done to oneself. Now that would be a learning experience!
I don’t rely on near death experiences.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
#72
Where does it say she was bathing on the roof? And congratulations, you said one of the things that infuriates me the most. Rape is NEVER the victim’s fault. David should’ve been with his men. And no she didn’t have a choice. The king sent for her, and no one defies the king’s order. Besides, why does the story Nathan tells David present Bathsheba as a completely innocent lamb if she was just as guilty as David was.
Sorry She was bathing in plain sight, close enough that he saw that he was attracted to her.

Where does it say David raped her? All it says is, he laid with her in her purification. We Should not add what is not there.

BTW David is called by GOD a man after His own heart. How does that sit in ya?

While we are at it, What do you think of this verse?
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
(Jas 2:10 KJV)

So if we stole or broke any other commandment we also murdered, committed adultery, made a idol and bow down to it, etc; etc...
 
Feb 20, 2016
1,154
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#73
Sorry She was bathing in plain sight. close enough that he saw that he was attracted to her.

Where does it say David raped her? All it says is, he laid with her in her purification. We Should not add what is not there.

What do you think of this verse.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
(Jas 2:10 KJV)

So if we stole or broke any other commandment we also murdered, committed adultery, made a idol and bow down to it, etc;etc...
"We should not add what is not there." You should take your own advice. Take away all your preconceptions, and the evidence couldn't be more clear that Bathsheba was raped. People who say otherwise despite clearly seeing the evidence just disgust me.

We need to challenge cultural narratives about sexual violence. The #MeToo and #ChurchToo movements have clarified that we still view rape as a stranger attack in a dark alley with a screaming, fighting victim. The Bathshebas of our society endure silently either because they are disempowered by the threats of their abuser, or because they don’t have a vocabulary for an abusive sexual encounter. Culture has driven this narrative and Christians have not countered it. So where do we start?

Weinstein had the power to act on his threats and victims knew it. This explains the ease with which he exploited and also generally shows why victims do not always fight back. Their resistance could make a bad situation much worse.

In her book, Scars Across Humanity, Elaine Storkey writes, “Power inequalities, in these cases in terms of age, strength and money, often go along with incidents of rape. These factors can be even more noticeable when the rapist is well known, and when the surrounding community allows a veil of silence to cover his behaviour” (126). We have done just this with King David. We often miss them, but the power dynamics present in this story give us every reason to believe that what happened to Bathsheba is rape, not a consensual act of adultery.

First, in the Old Testament world, to be summoned by a king was no small thing. Failing to appear was a matter of life and death. She could not simply refuse to appear.

Second, even according to Hebrew law, this likely would have been considered rape. The law made the distinction of rape or consent based on verbal resistance by the victim and whether or not that resistance could be heard by witnesses. If a man raped a woman in a rural area, where she could not be heard, he alone was guilty (Deuteronomy 22:23-27). As Sarah Bowler notes in Vindicating the Vixens, “If Bathsheba cried out, no one would dare enter the king’s chamber to stop him. In that sense there was little difference between a man raping a woman in the country and a king raping a woman in his palace chambers” (84). Bathsheba had no agency or say in what the king did to her.

Third, many assume that Bathsheba’s bathing on the roof was a form of sexual entrapment, but God apparently didn’t see it that way. When the prophet Nathan confronts David, he likens Bathsheba to a ewe lamb who is kidnapped and devoured (2 Sam. 12:1–6). This rendition leaves no question as to how she is viewed by God. She was a victim through and through. Yahweh sends his prophet to tell her and Uriah’s story because they share no blame in David’s actions.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#74
Quit looking at the people around you and in the world....LOOK TO JESUS.....and personally I am sick of those that devalue grace and then spread blather about people using it as a liscense to sin.....they accused Paul of the same crap!
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
#75
"We should not add what is not there." You should take your own advice. Take away all your preconceptions, and the evidence couldn't be more clear that Bathsheba was raped.
Where does it say she is raped.
2Sam 11:4 And David sent messengers, and took her; and she came in unto him, and he lay with her; for she was purified from her uncleanness: and she returned unto her house.

Nowhere.

We need to challenge cultural narratives about sexual violence. The #MeToo and #ChurchToo movements have clarified that we still view rape as a stranger attack in a dark alley with a screaming, fighting victim.
I agree.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#76
Where does it say she is raped.
2Sam 11:4 And David sent messengers, and took her; and she came in unto him, and he lay with her; for she was purified from her uncleanness: and she returned unto her house.

Nowhere.

I agree.
Why does it have to say explicitly that she was raped? Do you need to have someone hold your hand all the way through?

CONTEXT. Back then, they didn't have a word for rape like we talk about it. Look at the surrounding words though. THINK.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
#77
While we are at it, What do you think of this verse?
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
(Jas 2:10 KJV)

So if we stole or broke any other commandment we also murdered, committed adultery, made a idol and bow down to it, etc; etc...
 
Feb 20, 2016
1,154
266
83
#78
While we are at it, What do you think of this verse?
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
(Jas 2:10 KJV)

So if we stole or broke any other commandment we also murdered, committed adultery, made a idol and bow down to it, etc; etc...
Bathsheba was innocent and she was raped. Neither you or anyone else is ever going to tell me otherwise. Read the evidence for yourself and take off your rose-tinted glasses. David was a rapist the same way Abraham was a sex trafficker.

The Bible is filled with sinful people. People we admire are ALWAYS capable of great sins. God may work through them, but no amount of "grace" or whatever is ever going to change or erase what they did.
 
Feb 20, 2016
1,154
266
83
#79
While we are at it, What do you think of this verse?
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
(Jas 2:10 KJV)

So if we stole or broke any other commandment we also murdered, committed adultery, made a idol and bow down to it, etc; etc...
Besides, I'm working right now.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
#80
Why does it have to say explicitly that she was raped? Do you need to have someone hold your hand all the way through?

CONTEXT. Back then, they didn't have a word for rape like we talk about it. Look at the surrounding words though. THINK.
No mention of defilement in the story of David and Bathsheba. He did not rape her. You are assuming it.

Here is an instance of rape. Dinah was defiled in such a manner.
Gen 34:2 And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the country, saw her, he took her, and lay with her, and defiled her.

Actually 2Sam 11:4 says she made the first move. The word UNTO in the KJV means to Lay with in the Hebrew.

2Sam 11:4 And David sent messengers, and took her; and she came in UNTO him, and he lay with her; for she was purified from her uncleanness: and she returned unto her house.


UNTO is H7901 שָׁכַב shakab (shaw-kaɓ') v.
to lie down (for rest, sexual connection, decease or any other purpose).

Have a blessed evening.