Faith

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,191
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#61

1 Corinthians 2:12; Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
:)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,191
30,325
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#62

From Romans 6:19-21 You used to offer your body in slavery to impurity and to escalating wickedness when you were slaves to sin. What fruit did you reap at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? The outcome of those things is death.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,191
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#63

From Romans 7:18-19 Journey from Inability to Ability I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out... I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. Praise be to God for circumcising my sinful nature, causing me to obey by putting His Holy Spirit in me, and giving me a new heart.
:)
 

daisyseesthesun

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2024
793
440
63
#64

From Romans 7:18-19 Journey from Inability to Ability I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out... I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. Praise be to God for circumcising my sinful nature, causing me to obey by putting His Holy Spirit in me, and giving me a new heart.
:)
This verse reminds me of pslams 120
Pslams 119 the longest is about wanting to be a faithful servant of God then pslam 120 the shortest is the opposite That one wants to be good but can't becuase what is in them is for war.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,745
558
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#66
Many bitterly complain against any suggestion that God acts in any way unilaterally to save us. They claim that such would be a violation of their free will... That it makes a hoax of repentance and salvation and turns God into a tyrant. Personally I am extremely grateful that God pursued me and circumcised my heart so that I was able to love Him.
me too, wow, God loves us all as we are, that be when for me willingly I began the changes needed in me by the Love for me from God through Son first
Accepted, forgiven and sealed by God to see and trust the work God begins, God carries it on to completion
Ephesians 1:6
to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Ephesians 1:7
in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Ephesians 4:32
and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.
Ephesians 1:13
in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Philippians 1:6
being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

therefore, whatever is still troubling you, stand in full assurance God will show you how to let go of those things you hate to do, that you have done an d might still do presently. It takes to stand in trust no matter what happened or might happen again
Live in this present second, not the future or past of "I might do that again and better not or else attitude of flesh nature only". This is not of God in Spirit and Truth of Father and Son for anyone to do in thought
What? Yes seeing to take all thought(s) captive to the obedience of Christ
2 Corinthians 10:5
casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
It is peoples thought(s) that get people into troubles behind closed doors hiding. I know been there, and stood in trust to God no matter what seeing truth
Romans 8:38-39
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

therefore

Jeremiah 6:16
Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

I say, turn and trust willingly to Father as Jesus did, when he said to Father, nevertheless your will not mine Father and went to the death physically, willingly to save us the people spiritually for us to choose now to either believe God or not believe God in God's Spirit and Truth for each of us, since death still comes to all flesh, it is time to be willingly dead presently and held alive Spiritually presently daily in trust to God Father and Son as Won for us too.
Acts 17:28
for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For weare also his offspring.
2 Corinthians 13:4
For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.
It is not "I" that can do it, it is God who did fro me and all others as well, thank you Father
Entering your courts with thanksgiving and praise, all sin by Son is now taken away by you for me and all others also, thank you
Wow, amazing truth beyond understanding to the
first born flesh nature
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
3,052
1,004
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#67
God speaks to everyone. Most don't listen. I did
The question then becomes, and what it all boils down to in the end, is who gets the credit and glory for that decision? The biggest point of contention in this debate that I've found is that they believe that they get some kind of "credit" or "glory" for that decision that I believe belongs to God alone. To me this is the part they are 100% wrong on. This gives the false impression the mans choice has more power than it actually does, and Gods power is diminished. Scripture is VERY clear that we can do NOTHING to save ourselves, that it is all of God, none us. I believe that.

Do we have to respond? Of course. Do we have a will of our own and have to choose this day who we will serve? Of course, but it's God who draws us, God who gives us faith, God who grants us repentance and God who resurrects our dead spirits and reconciles them to His spirit, by GRACE through faith, and only by Jesus, but it is all by His power and He gets ALL glory, even for our response. If any part of salvation was put on our shoulders and up to us, no one would ever be saved. To be honest I don't think the two sides of this debate disagree on the mechanics of being saved, we agree on most fundamental points to a degree, it really boils down to who gets the credit and glory for the whole act of being saved. We say God 100% man 0%. They seem to believe they get a little of that credit for themselves. To me that's the part they have completely wrong.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
1,930
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#68
The question then becomes, and what it all boils down to in the end, is who gets the credit and glory for that decision? The biggest point of contention in this debate that I've found is that they believe that they get some kind of "credit" or "glory" for that decision that I believe belongs to God alone. To me this is the part they are 100% wrong on. This gives the false impression the mans choice has more power than it actually does, and Gods power is diminished. Scripture is VERY clear that we can do NOTHING to save ourselves, that it is all of God, none us. I believe that.

Do we have to respond? Of course. Do we have a will of our own and have to choose this day who we will serve? Of course, but it's God who draws us, God who gives us faith, God who grants us repentance and God who resurrects our dead spirits and reconciles them to His spirit, by GRACE through faith, and only by Jesus, but it is all by His power and He gets ALL glory, even for our response. If any part of salvation was put on our shoulders and up to us, no one would ever be saved. To be honest I don't think the two sides of this debate disagree on the mechanics of being saved, we agree on most fundamental points to a degree, it really boils down to who gets the credit and glory for the whole act of being saved. We say God 100% man 0%. They seem to believe they get a little of that credit for themselves. To me that's the part they have completely wrong.
Yes; do children earn/merit/get credit for the presents they may receive in about a month by opening them? Hardly! Despite a secular Christmas song urging them to be good or else Santa Claus may pass over them when he comes to their town.
 
Nov 1, 2024
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#69
The question then becomes, and what it all boils down to in the end, is who gets the credit and glory for that decision?
I get the credit, God gets the glory. What's the problem with that? Do you think it somehow diminishes God? He's well pleased that I made the decision of my own free will to believe him.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
1,930
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#70
I get the credit, God gets the glory. What's the problem with that? Do you think it somehow diminishes God? He's well pleased that I made the decision of my own free will to believe him.
You get the grace. PTL!
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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#72
Grace is God sending his son to die on my behalf and crediting his righteousness to me because I simply made the choice to believe his act of grace
Simple, yes, but it implies that you believe there is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever; and that human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) when they reject God’s salvation (JN 3:18); and that Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ or the way (means of providing salvation) that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11); and thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2); so then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning God’s Word everyone cooperates fully with His will (RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).

Easy peasy! :^)
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,342
2,467
113
#73
Grace is God sending his son to die on my behalf and crediting his righteousness to me because I simply made the choice to believe his act of grace
Yes there is a choice to be made, yet one would also have some level of persuasion that the offer is "true, real" before the choice.
One cannot believe unless one has some conviction about the veracity of the claim.
If people think something is not true they will not be persuaded and not make a choice to believe.
I agree with John Calvin where he teaches faith is a passive act, sadly he later contradicted himself.

I feel like those who think that men are so dead in sin from birth, born blind, unable to respond to the Gospel message, ultimately negates the whole necessity of the testimony and evidence embodied in the scriptures.

What is the point of the testimony of the scriptures if one cannot be persuaded by it?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,745
558
113
#74
Yes there is a choice to be made, yet one would also have some level of persuasion that the offer is "true, real" before the choice.
One cannot believe unless one has some conviction about the veracity of the claim.
If people think something is not true they will not be persuaded and not make a choice to believe.
I agree with John Calvin where he teaches faith is a passive act, sadly he later contradicted himself.

I feel like those who think that men are so dead in sin from birth, born blind, unable to respond to the Gospel message, ultimately negates the whole necessity of the testimony and evidence embodied in the scriptures.

What is the point of the testimony of the scriptures if one cannot be persuaded by it?
God leads to living water,, Jesus the Son as Won for us to be new from the first day anyone believes he is risen after seeing all sin taken away on that cross first. What. but I must do to get!
Yes according to man, not God for no one could do or ever can do it perfect as is done for them by Son to them
Who is risen where the new life more abundantly is given in seeing being forgiven first, then working that out in them personally between God and them to see new. As that can take a long time being here on earth in confusion over the entire sacrifice that had to be done first, before any new life could ever get given. Read the whole, and trust Father to let you grow up in this amazing gift thank you
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,191
30,325
113
#75
Simple, yes, but it implies that you believe there is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever; and that human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) when they reject God’s salvation (JN 3:18); and that Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ or the way (means of providing salvation) that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11); and thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2); so then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning God’s Word everyone cooperates fully with His will (RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).

Easy peasy! :^)
I did not see in that rather lengthy list any mention of God opening the eyes of the blind and the ears of the deaf that they may see, hear, and rightly understand the glorious news of Jesus Christ... rightly understand because their heart has been changed, while being brought to life and out from under the will of the devil. Oy. To hear some speak the will of the devil is that you believe in God.


Luke 4:18-19 The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to release the oppressed, 19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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#76
I did not see in that rather lengthy list any mention of God opening the eyes of the blind and the ears of the deaf that they may see, hear, and rightly understand the glorious news of Jesus Christ... rightly understand because their heart has been changed, while being brought to life and out from under the will of the devil. Oy. To hear some speak the will of the devil is that you believe in God.


Luke 4:18-19 The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to release the oppressed, 19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.
That is because Jesus (in MT 13:14-15) and Paul (in ACTS 28:26-27) did not open everyone's eyes and ears.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,191
30,325
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#77
That is because Jesus (in MT 13:14-15) and Paul (in ACTS 28:26-27) did not open everyone's eyes and ears.
This is true, but are we not speaking of those who do come to believe? And have they not all had their eyes opened and their ears circumcised along with their hearts/sinful natures, as children of wrath captive to the will of the devil, blinded by the god of this world, lovers of unrighteousness, supressing the truth etc etc, and given new life in Christ while they were yet dead in their sins? Drawn by God's loving kindness... we are told ALL will come who are given to Jesus. This is not the natural man who is a lover of darkness that responds to the call on his life.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
1,930
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#78
This is true, but are we not speaking of those who do come to believe? And have they not all had their eyes opened and their ears circumcised along with their hearts/sinful natures, as children of wrath captive to the will of the devil, blinded by the god of this world, lovers of unrighteousness, supressing the truth etc etc, and given new life in Christ while they were yet dead in their sins? Drawn by God's loving kindness... we are told ALL will come who are given to Jesus. This is not the natural man who is a lover of darkness that responds to the call on his life.
Well, we should not say they had their eyes and ears opened against their will or else we make God the author of evil and unjust to punish evildoers who had no other choice.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,191
30,325
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#79
Well, we should not say they had their eyes and ears opened against their will or else we make God the author of evil and unjust to punish evildoers who had no other choice.
I see that as a false dilemma. According to Scripture everybody knows that there is God and they are held responsible for the choices they make... They are without excuse because they suppress the truth in unrighteous.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
1,930
463
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#80
I see that as a false dilemma. According to Scripture everybody knows that there is God and they are held responsible for the choices they make... They are without excuse because they suppress the truth in unrighteous.
Yes, they did not HAVE to suppress the truth, but they are without excuse because they freely and unrighteously chose to do so, and thus they will reap the just consequences of that decision in hell.