Faith/Works...How much faith? How much works?
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Romans 12:3 says, “God hath dealt to every man THE measure of faith” (emphasis mine). God didn’t give us different measures of faith; we all received THE measure of faith. If I were serving soup to a lot of people, and if I used the same ladle to dish it out, then that ladle would be THE measure. Everyone would get the same amount of soup because I would use the same measure. That’s the way it is with God’s faith. He only used one measure. All born-again Christians received the same amount of faith.
That’s what the Apostle Peter said in 2 Peter 1:1; “Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.” The Greek word that was translated “like precious” in this verse is “isotimos,” which means “of equal value or honor.” We have the same faith that Peter used when he raised Dorcas from the dead (Acts 9:36-42) and when he made people whole by touching them with just his shadow (Acts 5:15).
We also have the same faith that Paul had. Paul said in Galatians 2:20, “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.” Paul did not say that he lived by faith IN the Son of God but by the faith OF the Son of God. The measure of faith that Paul had was the same measure that Jesus had. It was Jesus’ faith. If there is only one measure of faith (Rom. 12:3), then we also have the faith of Jesus.
That’s what the Apostle Peter said in 2 Peter 1:1; “Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.” The Greek word that was translated “like precious” in this verse is “isotimos,” which means “of equal value or honor.” We have the same faith that Peter used when he raised Dorcas from the dead (Acts 9:36-42) and when he made people whole by touching them with just his shadow (Acts 5:15).
We also have the same faith that Paul had. Paul said in Galatians 2:20, “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.” Paul did not say that he lived by faith IN the Son of God but by the faith OF the Son of God. The measure of faith that Paul had was the same measure that Jesus had. It was Jesus’ faith. If there is only one measure of faith (Rom. 12:3), then we also have the faith of Jesus.
Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).
It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24).
It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24).
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A living thing is defined by its growth and direction.
And as you pass by each time it has grown a bit more.
Faith - belief in Christ and His interaction with us bringing forgiveness and change.
Works - the fruit of the faith at work in us by what we say and do.
A simple equation of salvation is confess "Jesus is Lord" and believe....
9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that
God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your
mouth that you confess and are saved.
Rom 10
If these things are alive and growing one knows God. John puts it like this
11 Anyone who does what is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God.
3 John 1
Our doing of evil defines our folly and lostness.
If we define everything we do as evil, then we do not know God.
So in our faith we better know how God defines good and evil, or we can lose the Kingdom.
11 So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge.
12 When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.
13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.
1 Cor 8:11-13
We can cause ourselves to be defiled is we go against our conscience.
Paul is very careful to describe this issue with food sacrificed to idols and the freedom we have in
Christ to eat it, as it is just meat, yet for another it could be sin. So we must be careful in how we
handle our consciences.
And as you pass by each time it has grown a bit more.
Faith - belief in Christ and His interaction with us bringing forgiveness and change.
Works - the fruit of the faith at work in us by what we say and do.
A simple equation of salvation is confess "Jesus is Lord" and believe....
9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that
God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your
mouth that you confess and are saved.
Rom 10
If these things are alive and growing one knows God. John puts it like this
11 Anyone who does what is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God.
3 John 1
Our doing of evil defines our folly and lostness.
If we define everything we do as evil, then we do not know God.
So in our faith we better know how God defines good and evil, or we can lose the Kingdom.
11 So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge.
12 When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.
13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.
1 Cor 8:11-13
We can cause ourselves to be defiled is we go against our conscience.
Paul is very careful to describe this issue with food sacrificed to idols and the freedom we have in
Christ to eat it, as it is just meat, yet for another it could be sin. So we must be careful in how we
handle our consciences.
Fruit trees will bear more fruit as they age, but they need to keep pruning them to bear even more fruit.
If you understand that.
Its God who will prune you as thats His job. You just need to yield. Dont worry how much. Its kinda the wrong question, because when Jesus said I have come to give you life and life more abundantly, well hes gonna give you more than you could ask or think.
What you need to know is keep the faith and keep doing the good works God has ordained/prepared you to do. Remember We are his workmanship, we are clay in His hands. We dont tell God what to do. HE tells us. We just need to listen and then act on what He tells us.
If you understand that.
Its God who will prune you as thats His job. You just need to yield. Dont worry how much. Its kinda the wrong question, because when Jesus said I have come to give you life and life more abundantly, well hes gonna give you more than you could ask or think.
What you need to know is keep the faith and keep doing the good works God has ordained/prepared you to do. Remember We are his workmanship, we are clay in His hands. We dont tell God what to do. HE tells us. We just need to listen and then act on what He tells us.
Faith needs to be defined better.
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Heb 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Notice the link. True faith = Godly action.
If we offer works that are not by faith then it is useless, but if we claim to have faith and our actions or works are unrighteous we haven't got true faith. Every good thing comes from God so all glory for our faith goes to God.
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Heb 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Notice the link. True faith = Godly action.
If we offer works that are not by faith then it is useless, but if we claim to have faith and our actions or works are unrighteous we haven't got true faith. Every good thing comes from God so all glory for our faith goes to God.
Wow! I didn't think you would come in on the side of the spirit of "instead OF Christ", in defending it, or justifying it, for yourself, as well as those you say are like yourself EG!
Actually? I rather "figured" you would!
Because when one starts "pushing its buttons?" Guess whose name always "comes to its defense", EG! In saying that "ANY works one does after salvation, are just wasted efforts!" "As you are already saved!" "So? Let's see just how FEW works one can do and still have salvation!"
It's like, you and ones like you have reconciled to yourselves by saying and then believing, and then teaching: "God is so very SORRY He made life in the flesh SO HARD on us, that He sent His only BEGOTTEN Son as a sacrifice." "All "I" needs do is JUST BELIEVE!"
"Now?" "ALL we needs do?" "Is battle against those who think, teach, preach otherwise!"
2 Peter 3
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2 Timothy 2
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
Matthew 23
19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Don't you KNOW? The "Camel" you are swallowing is the spirit of anti-christ?
2 Timothy 2
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
John 14
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Isaiah 28
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death (the Camel of anti-christ), and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: (ALLOWING OURSELVES TO BE WILLINGLY IGNORANT)
2 Timothy 2
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these(?), he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
Actually? I rather "figured" you would!
Because when one starts "pushing its buttons?" Guess whose name always "comes to its defense", EG! In saying that "ANY works one does after salvation, are just wasted efforts!" "As you are already saved!" "So? Let's see just how FEW works one can do and still have salvation!"
It's like, you and ones like you have reconciled to yourselves by saying and then believing, and then teaching: "God is so very SORRY He made life in the flesh SO HARD on us, that He sent His only BEGOTTEN Son as a sacrifice." "All "I" needs do is JUST BELIEVE!"
"Now?" "ALL we needs do?" "Is battle against those who think, teach, preach otherwise!"
2 Peter 3
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2 Timothy 2
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
Matthew 23
19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Don't you KNOW? The "Camel" you are swallowing is the spirit of anti-christ?
2 Timothy 2
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
John 14
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Isaiah 28
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death (the Camel of anti-christ), and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: (ALLOWING OURSELVES TO BE WILLINGLY IGNORANT)
2 Timothy 2
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these(?), he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
E
I am sick of your silly games.
This is your post
Now. Show me EXAMPLES of people who have made this claim about ALL people who have great faith and doing MUCH or MANY works?
You made the accusation. Now either prove it or by your continued silence, PROVE YOU WERE WRONG IN YOUR ACCUSATION, and as such, can NOT BE TRUSTED!
Its up to you man. As I said, I am not going to discuss works or anythign else with you. I want you to PROVE you accusation!
This is your post
Problems arise between "faith verses works", when one believer having great faith, and doing much, or many "works", is "viewed", or seen, by another, or group of others (as water tends to seek its own level, or levels, depending on the vessel, or vessels ), as doing "works for salvation."
), as doing "works for salvation."
You made the accusation. Now either prove it or by your continued silence, PROVE YOU WERE WRONG IN YOUR ACCUSATION, and as such, can NOT BE TRUSTED!
Its up to you man. As I said, I am not going to discuss works or anythign else with you. I want you to PROVE you accusation!
So what is one to do, when one has been told "IT'S TIME!"
Time to "start" bringing this current earth and heaven age to its ending!
To let no mans' "conscience", sway me away from the "Liberty" I have in Christ.
The "Ark's door", is starting to close, so to speak. So, "get in" that which is able in the "getting in."
What is one to do?
Time to "start" bringing this current earth and heaven age to its ending!
To let no mans' "conscience", sway me away from the "Liberty" I have in Christ.
The "Ark's door", is starting to close, so to speak. So, "get in" that which is able in the "getting in."
What is one to do?
E
I have not seen you mention one name dude
You have not proven anything, You want to talk about what works is (or your interpretation) . I want NAMES of people who have DONE what you claimed they did!!
Can you name them, and give examples where they have claimed ALL people who have GREAT faith and MANY works believe in a works based salvation? or keep beating around the bush?
You have not proven anything, You want to talk about what works is (or your interpretation) . I want NAMES of people who have DONE what you claimed they did!!
Can you name them, and give examples where they have claimed ALL people who have GREAT faith and MANY works believe in a works based salvation? or keep beating around the bush?
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In my opinion, that dictum is circular
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