Faith/Works...How much faith? How much works?

[dcontroversal]

I am not onve osas. I believe that when one chooses to accept Christ, then because of free will, one could one day choose to walk away.

which would probably mean one did not really believe to start with .

and, I do not think that those of us who tell the truth that one is saved by belief in Christ alone has a license to sin,

so there.

I would disagree.......and let me explain....

The 70 returned and were rejoicing that the demons were subject unto them in the name of JESUS...JESUS told them to not rejoice in this, but rather to rejoice in the fact that there names were written in heaven.......a little later JESUS preaches a hard message about eating his flesh and drinking his blood.....they could not bear up under that message, said it was hard and walked no more with him......where does it say they lost their salvation?

Saved men and women get offended all the time and step away due the the death of a child, failed marriage, hitting rock bottom, loved one dying from a disease etc......this does not change the fact that they are eternally written in heaven....the only thing that dooms a man to hell is failing to acknowledge JESUS by faith.....once a man or woman has acknowledged by faith........

If we become faithless, he abides faithful because HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF...............

I will also say that the flip side of the coin is true as well.......John said as much.....MY point...if one has been saved by faith they cannot walk away and lose it.....obviously some that do walk away were NEVER OF US TO BEGIN WITH

 

[seed_time_harvest]

some think they are so secure that they can say anything and God pats them on the back

every thread they appear in takes on their character and spirit and they will always appear together

I might be one of those people,IDK

It's not that people can say anything and GOD will still pat them on the back It's that every man that has the hope of Eternal Life with GOD will seek to purify themselves to match the new creation they have become.

 

[Macabeus]

I am not onve osas. I believe that when one chooses to accept Christ, then because of free will, one could one day choose to walk away.

which would probably mean one did not really believe to start with .

The part in red is pretty much what people who believe in the doctrine of perserverance of the saints believe.

1 John 2:19- They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

and, I do not think that those of us who tell the truth that one is saved by belief in Christ alone has a license to sin,

Just a license to falsely accuse people, right?

Like saying that someone accused you of lying to the Holy Spirit when it is not true?

Post 558 clearly shows that Argueless did not say what DC said he did. And Argueless got banned. Also, two additional posts after 558 show bout 10 or more instances where Argueless repeated his question. This has been pointed out to DC about five or six times.

 

[Macabeus]

Since all sin, despite your desperate claim that one can sin without the will being involved, is a choice, we are all slaves to it. Which is why God gave us the Law, and why Christ had to come and die. The Law shows us our sinfulness, and Jesus made atonement on our behalf.

Contradict yourself much?[/QUOTE]

Poor Bud doesn't know tenses. I did not ask if you WERE a slave to sin, I asked you if you ARE a slave to sin.

Romans 6:18- But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Rom 6:20
For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

 

[Macabeus]

Poor Bud.

Conflating sinlessness with freedom from sin.

Did Paul say Christians were sinless? No

Did Paul say Christians were free from sin? Yes.

Do you see the twisting here, GB?

 

[Macabeus]

He that believes on the SON is NOT condemned.....something about being passed fro DEATH UNTO LIFE

Is one who has passed from death unto life a slave to sin, as Budman says?

 

[Macabeus]

He that believes on the SON is NOT condemned.....something about being passed fro DEATH UNTO LIFE

Is a person that has passed from death unto life a slave to sin, like Budman claims?

Hint- Romans 6:17, 6:18, 6:20 and 6:22

 

[Macabeus]

Yet again, tell it to Paul.

"For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want." (Romans 7:19)

So are you saying that post conversion Paul was a slave to sin?

Because you asked me if I am a slave to sin and you said we are ALL slaves to sin. Notice the tense, you used present tense, which means you hold that all of us are presently slaves to sin, even believers.

A little lesson in grammar for you. Present tense verbs indicate actions or states in the present. The Bible says we were slaves to sin, but not any more.

 

[NayborBear]

The Apocryphon of James

"Therefore, trust in me, my brethren; understand what the great light is. The Father has no need of me, - for a father does not need a son, but it is the son who needs the father - though I go to him. For the Father of the Son has no need of you."
"Woe to you who lack an advocate! Woe to you who stand in need of grace! Blessed will they be who have spoken out and obtained grace for themselves."
"Or do you perhaps think that the Father is a lover of mankind, or that he is won over without prayers, or that he grants remission to one on another's behalf, or that he bears with one who asks?"
"(Or do you think) that it is not this (flesh) that desires the soul? For without the soul, the body does not sin, just as the soul is not saved without the spirit. But if the soul is saved (when it is) without evil, and the spirit is also saved, then the body becomes free from sin. For it is the spirit that raises the soul, but the body that kills it; that is, it is it (the soul) which kills itself. Verily, I say unto you, he will not forgive the soul the sin by any means, nor the flesh the guilt; for none of those who have worn the flesh will be saved. For do you think that many have found the kingdom of heaven?"

 

[FollowHisSteps]

the definition of sin is to miss the mark, fall short of a standard , know to do good and not do so.
Paul even said anything not of faith is sin.

that is the definition. if one disagress with this, then one is calling the Bible a lie.

there is no debate about this. only those like f.h.s. ( peterjens) try to create one to push man-made lies.

Which lies are you refering to?
It is true, not doing something you know in your heart God is calling you to do is sin.

17 Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins.
James 4

15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food.
16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?
17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
James 2

James is talking about showing love and faith in action, this is the will of God.
Paul says equally knowing something is banned in faith and yet one still does it, sins.

Now these are concepts of consistency and belief, not impossible obligations that a
ocd sensitivity drives on into, because the fear of sin is driving one, rather than the love
of God and reach out to others.

Somehow gb9 seems to be confused over these issues, and feels condemned regarding
things they should be doing. God bless you.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

to push man-made lies

There is a problem in this sentence.
Man-made, something not in scripture,
Lies - something not true.

When such statements are made without clarity or subject, it is just attempting
hurt and damage, for whatever reason, because the facts do not matter or else they
would be mentioned.

And therefore it defeats the whole statement. Everything I share, I share on the foundation
of the word, which is why I share. So this cannot be man-made, rather it is God made.
By definition, because it is God made, it cannot be a lie.

Most who use this kind of language do so out of hurt and resentment, which is why the
content is missing. Without this, there is no response other than to restate ones position
which I have done. Now all the believers I know, would simply accept this in good faith,
and we can walk on together. I suggest as this issue continues without clarity or resolution
there is something else at play, which is actually hidden and kept quiet about. It may help
to simply be open and resolve it, as before the Lord these things are not good to dwell on.

 

[Budman]

SO your WALK is as holy and SINLESS as Christ? OK, Bud. Why do you need a High Priest in heaven interceding for you then?

The intercession is for our earthly walk. For strength, for chastisement when needed, or mercy in regard to that chastisement in accordance to God's will, for healing of the body, etc. When we sin in the flesh, and we are accused by the Devil before the throne, the intercession of Jesus reminds Satan that he no longer has a hold on us. Our sins are completely paid for.

I am holy, righteous, sinless, and perfect through imputation. My New Nature.

Old Nature = sinful and cannot stop sinning.

New Nature (Christ's) = His very nature in us. The one that does not, nor can sin. The one we now are judged righteous by.

This is Sunday school knowledge. Did you not go?

 

[Budman]

Read the part in red. That verse means he is unwilling, doesn't it. You intimated that we are all willing slaves to sin.

You missed the points.

1) He is unwilling - yes. But he still does it.

2) He always says what it is - sin. Plain and simple. And does not make excuses for it.

Unlike you.

 

[Budman]

A slave is one who is owned and at the disposal of someone else. Slaves were those who were bought, sold, and owned by someone else. You are arguing that Paul was owned by Jesus and owned by sin at the same. That shows the perverseness of your doctrine.

Paul was redeemed by the Blood of Christ. He belonged to Christ. Nobody and nothing else owned him. Christ owned him. His spirit and body were Christ's, not sins. Even though he was not sinless.

What Paul was teaching was that his Old Nature (The "Flesh") is corrupt, a slave to sin, and cannot change. That's why, despite it all, Paul still sinned regularly, and had the honesty to admit it.

Yet again - unlike you.

 

[Budman]

Never said I don't sin. Never said you don't sin. But we are not slaves to sin, because we have been redeemed. Sin has no claim on us. A slave is one who is owned and at the disposal of another. If you and I are saved, we are not owned and at the disposal of anyone except Jesus.

Though we may not always live like it

Ownership is one thing, but if you are not a practitioner of sin, you certainly wouldn't sin regularly.

But you do, doncha?

 

[Budman]

But you said "willing" slave to sin. The text says the very evil that I do not want.

Doing what you do not want to do is doing something unwillingly.

First part of your argument refuted right there...

Now to refute the second part of your argument...It is evident that we are not slaves to sin, because a slave is OWNED by his or her master. WE are not owned by sin, we are owned by Jesus, having been bought with a price, redeemed by the precious blood of Christ.

Even though we are not sinless, we are free from sin. (the Bible says it, that settles it.)

We just don't always live like it.

Yet again, he may have been unwilling, but he still did it. He didn't excuse the fact it was still sin. And sins of choice.

 

[Budman]

If you want you can report him, Oyster. I did.

Report me for what? Calling you a Judaizer? One who mixes Law and Grace?

Yep. Because you are.

 

[Budman]

Report me for what? Calling you a Judaizer? One who mixes Law and Grace?

Yep. Because you are.

It's like saying the sky is blue. The truth is the truth.

 

[Budman]

So are you saying that post conversion Paul was a slave to sin?

Was Paul saved when he wrote what he did?

A little lesson in grammar for you. Present tense verbs indicate actions or states in the present.

Yep. Just like when Paul wrote what he did. He never said he "was" those things (carnal, captive to the law of sin, evil being "present" in him, etc.) Paul said he "is" those things.

 

[gb9]

Which lies are you refering to?
It is true, not doing something you know in your heart God is calling you to do is sin.

17 Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins.
James 4

15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food.
16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?
17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
James 2

James is talking about showing love and faith in action, this is the will of God.
Paul says equally knowing something is banned in faith and yet one still does it, sins.

Now these are concepts of consistency and belief, not impossible obligations that a
ocd sensitivity drives on into, because the fear of sin is driving one, rather than the love
of God and reach out to others.

Somehow gb9 seems to be confused over these issues, and feels condemned regarding
things they should be doing. God bless you.

gb9 is confused over nothing.

I have given you the Biblical definition of sin many times, you reject it. that is a you problem. I have not changed not one thing about the proper definition of sin, because it is NOT mine , it does NOT belong to me, I have no authority to change or manipulate it. you apparently think you do. could not be more wrong in thinking this.

as to your first post, the lie I refer to is your church's silly creed that basically states that one does not receive salvation till they are 100% sanctified ( walking just as he walked, without ever stumbling ).

total lie. one is saved when one truly believes. sanctification is a totally separate issue.

to conflate the two is a heinous mis-use of Scripture.