Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine

[GodsGrace101]

1. You have to assume he is saved now. You can not prove that
2. John gives us the answer.

1 John 2: 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

EG, this is one of the most favorite verses for OSAS believers.
We can't be really sure what John meant. Did he mean that they believed at one time and now no longer believe? Did he mean that they never really believed? Those that were leaving had decided to go and preach anti-christian ideas that were not taught by the Apostles.

Besides this, we cannot take one or two verses and make of them a doctrine when the rest of scripture says the opposite.

The bible does not teach OSAS...
Jesus said that only those who are ready will be saved,
Mathew 25:13

Jesus said it's possible to believe for a while and then fall away.
Luke 8:13

Paul said we are not to live by the flesh. One poster here said no matter what, we're still saved.
Romans 8:13

Paul states that it's possible for us to be led astray.
2 Corinthians 11:2-4

John said it's possible for us to go too far.
2 John 1:9



source:

 

[eternally-gratefull]

See....the simplicity of Christ alludes all that tie faith and works together for or to keep salvation<---false gospel

Why not use some good ole common sense Fran.........

Where I am going you cannot come <---Who said this, to whom was it spoken and why? <---because they DENIED HIM<->HIS message, HIS mission, HIS purpose and for sure his FAITH.......

Then He said again to them, "I go away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin; where I am going, you cannot come." ..................And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

ALL who deny Christ will be DENIED by him before the FATHER...it is not about a saved man losing salvation and there is a general expectation and the word of God is for the saved and at the same time is filled with generalized statements of truth for the LOST

REGARDLESS.....YOU are pitting the bible against the bible.....LET"S logically deduce an absolute fact.......

LOGICALLY.....lets do some math

#1. The bible uses the following terms to describe salvation or the life given-->By grace through faith, eternal, everlasting, to the uttermost, kept by the power of God, lose nothing, finish what he began, sealed, Father's hand, Son's hand, may know we have, freely given, GRACE OR WORKS not BOTH, not by works of righteousness which we have done, not of works lest any man should boast and on and on.

#2. God the God of wording....he is PRECISE in what he states, EVERY WORD is inspired in CONTEXT, HE uses PRECISE statements of fact, words, verb tense, inspired two of the most precise LANGUAGES to give it in.....etc........

#3. BASED upon #'s 1 and 2, TO say the bible teaches a losable, salvation based upon WORKS not only pits the bible against itself, but also deems the whole thing untrustworthy......AT THE END of the day there is but 1 gospel that has power to save a man ALL other gospels have NO POWER and lead to a very, very bad day.

#4. Fran, you can peddle a salvation that can be kept or lost ALL day long based upon works which, you obviously do, and I can point to numerous facts that YOU MUST chunk to believe and or teach what you teach.

a. You must deny that you teach the same exact thing the plenteous in number embraced and pushed. The believed they knew JESUS as LORD and they fully expected and believed that their WORKS in some form or fashion helped the odds, chances and or was the ticket itself to get into the kingdom. Their gospel can be boiled down to a belief in JESUS (LORD, LORD) and their works were part of the equation. <---THE EXACT THING that ALL workers for BELIEVE....THEY call JESUS LORD (religiously) and they BELIEVE their WORKS in the NAME of JESUS was/is the winning ticket.

b. You must deny the truthful application of the words, phrases, statements in #1 above in order to embrace and teach a works based, self kept, blended gospel that includes a losable salvation. This alone pits the bible against the bible in the very minimum as they both cannot be right....deductive reason would dictate that GOD would not use the words, phrase, statements in #1 if salvation was losable and or gained, maintained by works.

c. You must deny that every attempt by man dia works to cover their own shame or sin was rejected by God.....such as, Adam and EVE (fig leaves), CAIN (works of his hands), Pharisees (Belief and Works) etc......WHO KILLED the ANIMALS, SHED BLOOD, MADE THE COVERINGS and COVERED in the Garden to cover their SHAME and SIN.....what Part did ADAM or EVE have in that other than being taken and COVERED BY GOD!

d. YOU must deny, twist, change, embellish, or go outside the context to get the bible to teach a works based salvation that can be lost or kept by performance/works.....

e. YOU must deny the fact that the saved will have both good and bad works, some will have works that get torched which proves they were not biblical and yet they remain SAVED.....and or that even MEN after the hearts and mind of GOD can and do horrific things that equate to pure evil and yet they speak of and spoke of their salvation in a present tense and instead of losing that which was not losable they were instead CHASTENED to the "tenth" degree.

I could carry this on for hours.......Fran....I am sorry....I will NEVER embrace what you espouse......it is not correct......

Another one thinks she is Fran.. Fran is that really you?

 

[rlm68]

Jesus died 2000 years ago, before you were first birn. Either he died for those sins, or he did not

If he did not, Your doomed forever. You have no hope of eternal life. because Christ failed.



All your sins were future when Christ died. When you asked for salvation (if you did) and for Gods salvation. If God saved you, He saved you KNOWING every sin you would ever commit. Those sins you say were 40 to 50 years later. To God they were just a few seconds away. And he saved you KNOWING you would commit them, you did not suprise God by commiting those sin, you can not suprise God he knows your whole life before you were even born.

Your looking at things from Human perspective not Gods..

This is from Christ Himself.

Matthew 6:15
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Now, if you are saved and DO NOT forgive those who do you wrong or cause you problems, then God WON'T forgive you.

So, does the OSAS theology accept this?

It is a CONDITION to your theory!!

You cannot be free of sin until you have forgiven those who have sinned against you.




And...if you do not forgive those who have sinned against you, God said He won't forgive you. So, how can you be OSAS without following the CONDITION of the Lord's Prayer?

 

[GodsGrace101]

And when a Christian denies Christ?

If a Christian denies Christ, he is not a Christian.
That is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
All will be forgiven but that.
Mathew 12:31

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG, this is one of the most favorite verses for OSAS believers.
We can't be really sure what John meant. Did he mean that they believed at one time and now no longer believe? Did he mean that they never really believed? Those that were leaving had decided to go and preach anti-christian ideas that were not taught by the Apostles.

Why do you like to make things so difficult. John did not stutter. He told us exacly what he meant, The only reason you may not understand is if he does not fit your belief system.

1. He said they were antichrists, He later told us who those antichrists where, they were people who DENIED CHRIST.
2. He said they departed from us, in other words, they considered themselves to be part of the church at one time. But have departed from the church. And now deny they even believe in Christ
3. He said they were never of us, and that they departed to PROVE they were never of us
4. He made it clear. If they WERE EVER TRULY PART OF US, they NEVER WOULD HAVE LEFT.

I do not have to use this passage to believe in OSAS. I just have to take this passage as it says, It proves people who left the churhc and now deny christ in unbelief were never saved, Thats ALL I NEED TO SEE.

Stop trying to prove OSAS wrong, and just take the word of God for what it says,,

Besides this, we cannot take one or two verses and make of them a doctrine when the rest of scripture says the opposite.

Lol. Dude? Maam? FRAN? Whoever you are. No The rest of the bible does not say the opposite.

Are you going to answer my John 6 question? It says the sme thing John says here, as does Jesus in John 4, John 5 and John 3. Paul said the same thing over and over

Are you reading a different bible?

The bible does not teach OSAS...

Well thanks for your opinion. I am still waiting on prof. I have yet to see you supply any. And anytime anyone gives you a passage, you say they are hard to understand or whatever exuse you use..

Jesus said that only those who are ready will be saved,
Mathew 25:13

And how do we become ready? How do we over come the world?

By faith in Christ.. Not by works.

Jesus said it's possible to believe for a while and then fall away.
Luke 8:13

he never said it is possible to have saving faith and fall away.

And please. The people in Luke 8 had no root. The root is christ. THEY WERE NEVER SAVED. How can you BE SAVEd, IF YOU NEVER WERE ROOTED IN CHRIST???

Paul said we are not to live by the flesh. One poster here said no matter what, we're still saved.
Romans 8:13

Paul states that it's possible for us to be led astray.
2 Corinthians 11:2-4

John said it's possible for us to go too far.
2 John 1:9



source:

None of those prove salvation can be lost.

The passage I used still stand
If a person WAS going to church. And they LEFT IN UNBELIEF

They were never of us. Period.

John is not talking about sinning ourselves out of salvation, Or not doing enough works and falling away.

he is talking about people who no longer belive in christ, People who at one time believed jesus, but now deny him.

Stick to the verse. Thank you!

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Ephesians 4:30-32 [blb] - [addressed to "the Church which IS HIS BODY"]

30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for [eis - unto] the day of redemption.

31 Let all bitterness, and rage, and anger, and clamor, and slander, be removed from you, along with all malice. 32 And be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, as also in Christ God forgave you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is from Christ Himself.

Matthew 6:15
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Now, if you are saved and DO NOT forgive those who do you wrong or cause you problems, then God WON'T forgive you.

So, does the OSAS theology accept this?

It is a CONDITION to your theory!!

You cannot be free of sin until you have forgiven those who have sinned against you.




And...if you do not forgive those who have sinned against you, God said He won't forgive you. So, how can you be OSAS without following the CONDITION of the Lord's Prayer?

Lol.. Do you hae eternal life or conditional life.

Just be blunt, tell us what you believe? Did Jesus lie? Did John lie?

PS. I am not defending OSAS. So please. Stop with your nonsense.

I am defending the promises of God. How many times do I have to tell you this??

Your stuck on sins, sins that were payed for on the cross. And OSAS. A doctrine of men.

I am defending the promises of God. How come you never want to discuss them??

 

[GodsGrace101]

Why do you like to make things so difficult. John did not stutter. He told us exacly what he meant, The only reason you may not understand is if he does not fit your belief system.

1. He said they were antichrists, He later told us who those antichrists where, they were people who DENIED CHRIST.
2. He said they departed from us, in other words, they considered themselves to be part of the church at one time. But have departed from the church. And now deny they even believe in Christ
3. He said they were never of us, and that they departed to PROVE they were never of us
4. He made it clear. If they WERE EVER TRULY PART OF US, they NEVER WOULD HAVE LEFT.

I do not have to use this passage to believe in OSAS. I just have to take this passage as it says, It proves people who left the churhc and now deny christ in unbelief were never saved, Thats ALL I NEED TO SEE.

Stop trying to prove OSAS wrong, and just take the word of God for what it says,,



Lol. Dude? Maam? FRAN? Whoever you are. No The rest of the bible does not say the opposite.

Are you going to answer my John 6 question? It says the sme thing John says here, as does Jesus in John 4, John 5 and John 3. Paul said the same thing over and over

Are you reading a different bible?



Well thanks for your opinion. I am still waiting on prof. I have yet to see you supply any. And anytime anyone gives you a passage, you say they are hard to understand or whatever exuse you use..




And how do we become ready? How do we over come the world?

By faith in Christ.. Not by works.



he never said it is possible to have saving faith and fall away.

And please. The people in Luke 8 had no root. The root is christ. THEY WERE NEVER SAVED. How can you BE SAVEd, IF YOU NEVER WERE ROOTED IN CHRIST???




None of those prove salvation can be lost.

The passage I used still stand
If a person WAS going to church. And they LEFT IN UNBELIEF

They were never of us. Period.

John is not talking about sinning ourselves out of salvation, Or not doing enough works and falling away.

he is talking about people who no longer belive in christ, People who at one time believed jesus, but now deny him.

Stick to the verse. Thank you!

I agree with your last 3 paragraphs...
John is not talking...
he is talking about...
Stick to the verse...

I never said we could sin ourselves out of salvation...UNLESS we're living a life of sin and feel no remorse. I always said the way to lose salvation is to deny Christ.

If we have to have faith in Him to be saved...then it stands to reason that if we lose that faith, we can no longer be saved.

It can't be both ways.

You insist that I answer to your verse, but will not answer to mine except to say that they don't speak to loss of salvation. They certainly do!

Here are some more:

1 Thessalonians 3:5 Paul was worried that the tempter might have tempted the Thessalonians and his labor (preaching and teaching to salvation) might have been in vain.

Hebrews 2:1 Paul says we must pay close attention to what we hear, LEST we DRIFT AWAY from it.

Still have plenty more...

 

[Hevosmies]

I agree with your last 3 paragraphs...
John is not talking...
he is talking about...
Stick to the verse...

I never said we could sin ourselves out of salvation...UNLESS we're living a life of sin and feel no remorse. I always said the way to lose salvation is to deny Christ.

If we have to have faith in Him to be saved...then it stands to reason that if we lose that faith, we can no longer be saved.

It can't be both ways.

You insist that I answer to your verse, but will not answer to mine except to say that they don't speak to loss of salvation. They certainly do!

Here are some more:

1 Thessalonians 3:5 Paul was worried that the tempter might have tempted the Thessalonians and his labor (preaching and teaching to salvation) might have been in vain.

Hebrews 2:1 Paul says we must pay close attention to what we hear, LEST we DRIFT AWAY from it.

Still have plenty more...

Sir

You believe you can lose your salvation correct? Hebrews 6:4-6 right?
Do you also believe you can get it back, repent and return? If you do how do you reconcile that with the verse saying "Its IMPOSSIBLE to renew them again to repentance?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Sir

You believe you can lose your salvation correct? Hebrews 6:4-6 right?
Do you also believe you can get it back, repent and return? If you do how do you reconcile that with the verse saying "Its IMPOSSIBLE to renew them again to repentance?

Madam

Here's how I reconcile because the bible does not contradict itself.

Hebrews 6:4-6 was written to Jews that had left their religion to become Christian --- believe in salvation through Christ, the Messiah. They were very used to making sacrifices,,,their whole life they had been taught the Jewish religion.

At some point, after becoming Christian believers, they began to doubt that they were doing the right thing and thought that maybe they should return to their previous faith, which they had always beleived would save them BEFORE the message of the new religion.

Paul is exhorting them not to go back to their previous religious practices because in doing so they would be trampling on Jesus and His sacrifice. IF they had gone back they most probably would not have been able to come back to Christianity because it would have meant that they gave this serious thought and would most probably stay with the Jewish religion after having returned to it.

And, yes, the N.T. teaches us that all sin if forgiven except for the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
If one leaves the faith and then is sorry and repents, God will always take that person back.

This is shown in the parable of The Prodigal Son.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree with your last 3 paragraphs...
John is not talking...
he is talking about...
Stick to the verse...

I never said we could sin ourselves out of salvation...UNLESS we're living a life of sin and feel no remorse. I always said the way to lose salvation is to deny Christ.

I know this

1. John called those who deny Christ an Anti-Christ
2. He said if one who believes, and now denys christ and departed. They were never of us.
3. Ie. They were never saved.

So why are you still arguing? Your argument is not with me, it is with John.

If we have to have faith in Him to be saved...then it stands to reason that if we lose that faith, we can no longer be saved.

It can't be both ways.

You insist that I answer to your verse, but will not answer to mine except to say that they don't speak to loss of salvation. They certainly do!

Here are some more:

1 Thessalonians 3:5 Paul was worried that the tempter might have tempted the Thessalonians and his labor (preaching and teaching to salvation) might have been in vain.

Hebrews 2:1 Paul says we must pay close attention to what we hear, LEST we DRIFT AWAY from it.

Still have plenty more...

I can answer every one of your passages. And it goes right along with James and Hebrews. And in fact I have answered some of them, to say I have not is just wrong.

Not evryone in churhc is saved, Many have gone to church for years and think they are saved but have yet to recieve christ in true savign faith.

The warning is for these people. make a decision before it is too late.

For some of the others. Salvation is not in question, As I have said over and over, some are sanctification verses.. The warning is to continue to walk so you can be blessed. Or fail to walk or stop walking and take yourself out of his rest.

Again as I have said, CONTEXT is our best friend.

Either way, it does not matter

John did not stutter.
If you claim to have faith, and now STOP BELIEVING and are now a DENIER of CHRIST. You were never saved period. No other passage can say otherwise. If it does. Or appears to. You better check context. Because John was clear..

 

[Hevosmies]

Madam

Here's how I reconcile because the bible does not contradict itself.

Hebrews 6:4-6 was written to Jews that had left their religion to become Christian --- believe in salvation through Christ, the Messiah. They were very used to making sacrifices,,,their whole life they had been taught the Jewish religion.

At some point, after becoming Christian believers, they began to doubt that they were doing the right thing and thought that maybe they should return to their previous faith, which they had always beleived would save them BEFORE the message of the new religion.

Paul is exhorting them not to go back to their previous religious practices because in doing so they would be trampling on Jesus and His sacrifice. IF they had gone back they most probably would not have been able to come back to Christianity because it would have meant that they gave this serious thought and would most probably stay with the Jewish religion after having returned to it.

And, yes, the N.T. teaches us that all sin if forgiven except for the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
If one leaves the faith and then is sorry and repents, God will always take that person back.

This is shown in the parable of The Prodigal Son.

Thanks for the answer.

I wonder how many times can someone get the Holy Spirit off and on?
Saved unsaved saved unsaved.

And how do you know if you've lost it?

 

[dcontroversal]

Another one thinks she is Fran.. Fran is that really you?

It is....already been established......

 

[GodsGrace101]

I know this

1. John called those who deny Christ an Anti-Christ
2. He said if one who believes, and now denys christ and departed. They were never of us.
3. Ie. They were never saved.

So why are you still arguing? Your argument is not with me, it is with John.






I can answer every one of your passages. And it goes right along with James and Hebrews. And in fact I have answered some of them, to say I have not is just wrong.

Not evryone in churhc is saved, Many have gone to church for years and think they are saved but have yet to recieve christ in true savign faith.

The warning is for these people. make a decision before it is too late.

For some of the others. Salvation is not in question, As I have said over and over, some are sanctification verses.. The warning is to continue to walk so you can be blessed. Or fail to walk or stop walking and take yourself out of his rest.

Again as I have said, CONTEXT is our best friend.

Either way, it does not matter

John did not stutter.
If you claim to have faith, and now STOP BELIEVING and are now a DENIER of CHRIST. You were never saved period. No other passage can say otherwise. If it does. Or appears to. You better check context. Because John was clear..

I agree with you EG.
I do have a problem with those that say that one absolutely cannot leave the faith...I'm sure we all know someone that has. I don't say this is an easy thing to do once someone has known the love of God.

Some in churches are not saved.
But also, some that ARE saved CAN leave the faith.
I don't understand why this is so difficult to accept.
I certainly don't plan to ever leave God and I'm sure you don't.

1 Timothy 4:13 Paul clearly states that some will abandon the faith.
(BTW, you didn't reply to those Mathew verses but only said they do not pertain to loss of salvation)

What do you make of this video?
(if I can find it)

 

[GodsGrace101]

Another one thinks she is Fran.. Fran is that really you?

LOL
There's only ONE Fran.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Thanks for the answer.

I wonder how many times can someone get the Holy Spirit off and on?
Saved unsaved saved unsaved.

And how do you know if you've lost it?

H, your second paragraph means you didn't read my post!

You don't get the Holy Spirit on and off.
You might lose your faith once,,,you might come back or you might not...
but it's not an on/off situation. (thought I said this)

How do you know if you've lost it?
You don't care about God anymore.

P.S. I'm a girl.

 

[Hevosmies]

H, your second paragraph means you didn't read my post!

You don't get the Holy Spirit on and off.
You might lose your faith once,,,you might come back or you might not...
but it's not an on/off situation. (thought I said this)

How do you know if you've lost it?
You don't care about God anymore.

P.S. I'm a girl.

Oh sorry i didnt know that.

I did read your post, and this is what i was referring to:

If one leaves the faith and then is sorry and repents, God will always take that person back.

^If one leaves the faith, one loses the Holy Spirit, right? Then one repents and gets it back?

Or do you believe one DOESNT lose the Holy Spirit when leaving the faith? In that case, they are still saved. Because if you got God's Spirit in you, you are saved!

 

[GodsGrace101]

See....the simplicity of Christ alludes all that tie faith and works together for or to keep salvation<---false gospel

Why not use some good ole common sense Fran.........

Where I am going you cannot come <---Who said this, to whom was it spoken and why? <---because they DENIED HIM<->HIS message, HIS mission, HIS purpose and for sure his FAITH.......

Then He said again to them, "I go away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin; where I am going, you cannot come." ..................And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

ALL who deny Christ will be DENIED by him before the FATHER...it is not about a saved man losing salvation and there is a general expectation and the word of God is for the saved and at the same time is filled with generalized statements of truth for the LOST

REGARDLESS.....YOU are pitting the bible against the bible.....LET"S logically deduce an absolute fact.......

LOGICALLY.....lets do some math

#1. The bible uses the following terms to describe salvation or the life given-->By grace through faith, eternal, everlasting, to the uttermost, kept by the power of God, lose nothing, finish what he began, sealed, Father's hand, Son's hand, may know we have, freely given, GRACE OR WORKS not BOTH, not by works of righteousness which we have done, not of works lest any man should boast and on and on.

#2. God the God of wording....he is PRECISE in what he states, EVERY WORD is inspired in CONTEXT, HE uses PRECISE statements of fact, words, verb tense, inspired two of the most precise LANGUAGES to give it in.....etc........

#3. BASED upon #'s 1 and 2, TO say the bible teaches a losable, salvation based upon WORKS not only pits the bible against itself, but also deems the whole thing untrustworthy......AT THE END of the day there is but 1 gospel that has power to save a man ALL other gospels have NO POWER and lead to a very, very bad day.

#4. Fran, you can peddle a salvation that can be kept or lost ALL day long based upon works which, you obviously do, and I can point to numerous facts that YOU MUST chunk to believe and or teach what you teach.

a. You must deny that you teach the same exact thing the plenteous in number embraced and pushed. The believed they knew JESUS as LORD and they fully expected and believed that their WORKS in some form or fashion helped the odds, chances and or was the ticket itself to get into the kingdom. Their gospel can be boiled down to a belief in JESUS (LORD, LORD) and their works were part of the equation. <---THE EXACT THING that ALL workers for BELIEVE....THEY call JESUS LORD (religiously) and they BELIEVE their WORKS in the NAME of JESUS was/is the winning ticket.

b. You must deny the truthful application of the words, phrases, statements in #1 above in order to embrace and teach a works based, self kept, blended gospel that includes a losable salvation. This alone pits the bible against the bible in the very minimum as they both cannot be right....deductive reason would dictate that GOD would not use the words, phrase, statements in #1 if salvation was losable and or gained, maintained by works.

c. You must deny that every attempt by man dia works to cover their own shame or sin was rejected by God.....such as, Adam and EVE (fig leaves), CAIN (works of his hands), Pharisees (Belief and Works) etc......WHO KILLED the ANIMALS, SHED BLOOD, MADE THE COVERINGS and COVERED in the Garden to cover their SHAME and SIN.....what Part did ADAM or EVE have in that other than being taken and COVERED BY GOD!

d. YOU must deny, twist, change, embellish, or go outside the context to get the bible to teach a works based salvation that can be lost or kept by performance/works.....

e. YOU must deny the fact that the saved will have both good and bad works, some will have works that get torched which proves they were not biblical and yet they remain SAVED.....and or that even MEN after the hearts and mind of GOD can and do horrific things that equate to pure evil and yet they speak of and spoke of their salvation in a present tense and instead of losing that which was not losable they were instead CHASTENED to the "tenth" degree.

I could carry this on for hours.......Fran....I am sorry....I will NEVER embrace what you espouse......it is not correct......

Tomorrow D, too tired.
I'll only say this for now...
you say that when one denies Christ it's talking about BEFORE they are saved.

IF a person denies Christ, what difference does it make WHEN?
The spiritual law remains the same...denial is denial and Jesus said if we deny HIM, He will deny us to the Father.

To be cont'd.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Oh sorry i didnt know that.

I did read your post, and this is what i was referring to:


^If one leaves the faith, one loses the Holy Spirit, right? Then one repents and gets it back?

Or do you believe one DOESNT lose the Holy Spirit when leaving the faith? In that case, they are still saved. Because if you got God's Spirit in you, you are saved!

How does the Holy Spirit stay with me if I deny God, walk away from Him and go on about my merry way?

Before we were saved, we didn't have the Holy Spirit abiding in us...WHENEVER we deny God, we will not have the Holy Spirit abiding in us.
John 15:1-6 states this clearly.

Is there a verse that states we could deny God and still be saved?

If we believe, we are saved,
If we don't believe, we are not saved.

Does it make a difference WHEN we don't believe? (either before or after salvation).

 

[UnderGrace]

Another one thinks she is Fran.. Fran is that really you?

It is, I figured out a long while back.

How is Italy Fran?