Eternal Security - Most dangerous words ever preached: Once saved, always saved.

[oldethennew]

Yep.....and the context is temporal rest in this life....even though the above is true...

a. He did not leave them or foesake them but led them day and night by a pillar of fire and smoke.

b. Maintained he presence within the camp in the Holiest of Holies

c. Fed them

d. Gave them a form or worship and leadership

e. Gave them water

f. Provided for them ALL THE DAYS OF THIER LIVES

These Hebrew scriptures are NOT ABOUT SALVATION!

=============================================================
Brother DC,
you already know that hub and I love you beyond, and even though we may
at this time have differing views, etc., it really just doesn't matter to us,
for our shared Love in Christ surely goes way beyond any differences we may have...

 

[EleventhHour]

There are plenty of scriptures that reference those who tasted the gifts of the Holy Spirit and left.

Incorrect

In Christ ye also trusted after ye heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation, in Whom also after ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

You can say they never were in communion but that's a logical fallacy. No true Scotsman fallacy. The bottom line is no one knows with certainty who is saved and who is not.

Incorrect

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:13

In regards of peddling a gospel, the truth is, our salvation requires our cooperation.

Incorrect

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
Ephesians 2:8

Not quite the selling point that eternal security offers. But then there is no evidence that anyone can point to that reveals a person's eternal destiny with certainty.

Incorrect

Salvation is a gift.
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Romans 11:29

We walk by faith not sight.

Now faith is the assurance of what we hope for and the certainty of what we do not see.
Hebrews 1:1

 

[Benadam]

Incorrect

In Christ ye also trusted after ye heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation, in Whom also after ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,



Incorrect

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:13



Incorrect

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
Ephesians 2:8



Incorrect

Salvation is a gift.
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Romans 11:29



Now faith is the assurance of what we hope for and the certainty of what we do not see.
Hebrews 1:1

Certainty of? Evidence of...things unseen.

Are there translators rendering it that way? Certainty of?

KJV
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[Finepearl]

Is it possible for a Christian to lose his salvation? Under what conditions, if any, can one's salvation be forfeited? Millions of Christians live their lives as close to these questions as they can, gambling on the goodness and mercy of God to save them, continually, in their sin rather than from it. Millions more spend their faith on works attempting to offer a better sacrifice, but in reality bypass the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The scriptures indicate that a Christian can lose his salvation. Consider the warning at Jude 3. Here Jude encourages fellow believers to ‘earnestly contend’ or put up a hard fight for the faith. Why? Because he knew individual Christians could still lose the ‘common salvation’, in other words, the salvation they held in common. In support of this in Jude 5 he reminds Christians that although God saved a people ‘the Israelites’ out of Egypt, he later destroyed ones not showing faith.

Jude’s warning would be pointless if Christians did not face a similar danger to those Israelites. Jude is not questioning the value of Jesus sacrifice, nor am I. Jesus sacrifice saved us from Adamic sin, and Jesus will protect those who continue to demonstrate faith in him. But individually we can lose that protection by doing what those Israelites who were saved from Egypt did. By deliberately disobeying God.

Christians as a group are in a saved condition. Their salvation from Adamic sin and its consequences are sure. But individually they are saved to eternal life only if they continue to adhere to all God’s requirements. Jesus emphasised this at John 15:2,6 where he likens himself to a vine and his disciples to branches. One losing faith in Jesus also lose salvation, lose everlasting life.

Additionally the Apostle Paul’s words at Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26,27 clearly show that a Christian once saved can lose that salvation.

 

[Benadam]

Incorrect

In Christ ye also trusted after ye heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation, in Whom also after ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Does that mean we can tell who's going to heaven or not?

Incorrect

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
Ephesians 2:8

Does that mean we don't have to cooperate with Grace?

Incorrect

Salvation is a gift.
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Romans 11:29

Does that mean we can tell who is going to heaven or not?

 

[EleventhHour]

Certainty of? Evidence of...things unseen.

Are there translators rendering it that way? Certainty of?

KJV
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

That is the correct way to understand it.. it not wishful thinking.. it is a certain hope because of Christ Jesus.

17Wherein God, willing more abundantly to show unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
18 that by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
19 which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
20 whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made a high priest for ever after the order of Melchiz´edek.

Hebrews 6:17

 

[EleventhHour]

Does that mean we can tell who's going to heaven or not?

Does that mean we don't have to cooperate with Grace?

Does that mean we can tell who is going to heaven or not?

Straw man questions if there is such a thing.

 

[Benadam]

Straw man questions if there is such a thing.

Isn't that the claim of eternal security? To know who's going to heaven?

 

[EleventhHour]

Isn't that the claim of eternal security? To know who's going to heaven?

No

 

[Nehemiah6]

Does that mean we can tell who's going to heaven or not?

It is not your business (or mine) to tell others who is going to Heaven and who is not. Only God knows this perfectly. But you simply need to know this for yourself, based upon what God has done in Christ, and whether you have obeyed the Gospel or not. If you have repented and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and been born again, you will go to Heaven. Your salvation is secure in Christ, not in yourself.

Does that mean we don't have to cooperate with Grace?

Cooperate with "the Holy Spirit" would be more accurate. Indeed surrender to the Holy Spirit, in order to be (1) filled with the Spirit, (2) walk in the Spirit, (3) bear spiritual fruit, (4) exercise spiritual gifts, (5) test the spirits and (6) discern truth from error.

The Bible says that it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure, therefore work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

We can read scripture and it clearly states that you sin.

We know that everyone who has been born of God does not sin (1 John 5:18).

Yes, you can. And then ignore it!

 

[Micaiah-imla]

We can read scripture and it clearly states that you sin.

In all the years as a saved person have you matured to the point of letting someone strike you twice and take your possessions?

You know, since you “point 100% to Christ“...

 

[Benadam]

therefore work out your salvation

What is working out my salvation mean to someone who's salvation is eternally secure?

 

[J-T]

I'm sure you noticed the aggressive title of this thread. Given the fact that many are unsure of Bible doctrines, and this topic impinges on the eternal salvation of souls, I for one cannot treat it as merely a point for discussion.

This is not a mere discussion. This is an attempt by a Swaggerite to draw the unstable and unlearned away after the Tongue Babbling Swaggarts. If you notice, it's a Jimmy Swaggart "study bible", where good ole' Jimmy put his words in the Bible, making them red letter words, to explain away what God has to say in His holy passages of truth! In having observed Jimmy Swaggart Ministries for quite some time, I noted many heresies, including the fumblings over the Biblical Doctrine of Hell. Not to mention how all of the Jimmy Swaggart team all angrily twirl in their chairs as they deny eternal security when a Christian calls into their show to defend it. Yes, there is much to share and to expound upon, but what I found to be most notable of all is Jimmy Swaggart's consistent use of multiple Satanic hand signs, including the sign of the Antichrist, the Devil's horns, (both of which are featured on numerous images of the idol of the Satanic Baphomet, as well as many images of the idol of Buddah) and Jimmy also makes the Pyramid of Power hand sign as well; All of these even though he and others on his staff claim to have an outreach ministry to Freemasons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, Roman Catholics, and other cults of the Occult. And as if that isn't bad enough, after they had been called out on it due to published videos that had gone viral exposing this blatant Satanic hypocrisy, Jimmy Swaggart Ministries' Legal Team feverishly worked around the clock to have any and all of those videos shut down claiming copyright violation. However, they were not fully successful in having them all removed, as there was a former employee of theirs that took a firm legal position to defend her right to publish her documented expose' of the Satanic hand signs. In the Meantime, Francis Swaggart took the helm via her platform of Francis and Friends to defend her husband who claimed that the hand gestures were merely to direct the musicians, while Jimmy's and Francis' son, Donnie Swaggart, tried to compare it to the Texas Longhorns hand gesture with the help of another of their mutual friends.

This whole "you can lose your salvation" heresy stems from the Occult; the Mother Whore of the Roman Catholic Church, trickled down to her harlots, such as the aforementioned false prophets, as well as the false teachers. There is always a reason why they are "off" doctrinally, and it's because they are from a group that popped up not long after the false prophet groups popped onto the scene.

Oh, and before I forget, I need to mention that just like the Jehovah's Witnesses' blasphemy of referring to The Holy Spirit as "electricity", Jimmy Swaggart has made the very same blasphemous reference, not once, but repeatedly! There is also an excerpt on one of Jimmy's preaching messages that's always played in their hypnotic loop program, where he claims to understand the New Testament MORE THAN Apostle Paul, and his explanation is that it is because he has "more light than the Apostle Paul did".

Just sharing this important bit of information is still just scratching the surface of the evil fruits of Pentecostalism. There are numerous videos on YouTube exposing a Freemason more famously known as Kenneth Copeland, along with all of his blasphemies, including his antichrist doctrine that God is both male and female, of which is what the images of the idols of Baphomet, Buddha, Pan, and others represent; a trangender abomination, and when you grasp how these heretics, along with the likes of Paul Young, who wrote the movie, "The Shack" also teach, you can see clearly how the transgerism/transhumanism movement and doctrines of devils have been most craftily broadcast right into the homes of the unstable and unlearned to become beguiled and fully deceived into learning. Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Myers, Paul and Jan Crouch, along with several others also teach that they and their deceived are "little gods". While nothing has been found to link these types of heresies to the Swaggarts, all any discerning Christian, that is TRULY born again, has to do is to simply test their teachings, wearing the full armour of God, then it becomes all to clear why it is that they erroneously and blasphemously teach the denial of The Lord Jesus Christ's POWER to save and keep people saved, and it all comes down to this simple fact that is true with the R.C.C., JWs, S.D.A., Mormons, and other like groups, and that is to bring the unstable and unlearned into bondage, under their yoke, to teach them a false Jesus, a false gospel, with that same spirit of iniquity, which is the spirit of error, and is the spirit of Antichrist. Their entire object also becomes clear, as you see the Orchestration of all of these groups, as their sheepskins are removed, and that is for them to sew division and discord, as is always the case with situations such as these. it is absolutely no different now than a Jehovah's Witness knocking at your door, except that now, and most especially because of the Antichrist / Ecumunical Movement, they have made their way right into the pews and behind the pulpits of our Churches. Not that long ago, I noticed a small Baptist Church had the name "Baptist" removed. Why, the people that went there were the same, but what was different, was that as a direct result of the Ecuminal Movement, they had hired slick Tongue Talker, who had even talked them out of the Baptist name, as well as using the Baptist hymnals. Since hiring the Pentecostal Pastor, they have been slow cooked like a frog that was initially placed into a pot of warm water, learning how to speak in tongues, i.e. "how to tie a bowtie how to tie a bowtie" << Say that ten times really fast; along with how people can lose their salvation, and much more. That's how the Devil works ..... all with subtlety and that is why they despise Eternal Security / Once Saved Always Saved as they deny the Finished Work of Jesus Christ at Calvary and His Righteousness, thus making themselves self righteous, because any righteousness apart from Jesus Christ is self righteousness, and anyone that is self righteous is a hypocrite.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

and anyone that is self righteous is a hypocrite.

If your faith and trust is not placed in Christ and His Finished Work at Calvary Cross, i.e, “The Blood of Jesus,” you become a self righteous hypocrite! Why? Because you get to take care of you without the help of the Holy Spirit. Without your faith and trust in the Sacrifice you remove yourself from the Lord. Gal. 1:6

The Bible says that Christ and Him Crucified is the power and the wisdom Of God. Without your faith and trust placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and Him Crucified, there will only be a worldly wisdom, even though you use scriptures!

 

[Nehemiah6]

What is working out my salvation mean to someone who's salvation is eternally secure?

What it means is essentially sanctification -- becoming more holy and Christ-like. So you could go through the entire New Testament to see the instructions to Christians, as to how they must live.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

The scriptures indicate that a Christian can lose his salvation. Consider the warning at Jude 3. Here Jude encourages fellow believers to ‘earnestly contend’ or put up a hard fight for the faith. Why? Because he knew individual Christians could still lose the ‘common salvation’, in other words, the salvation they held in common. In support of this in Jude 5 he reminds Christians that although God saved a people ‘the Israelites’ out of Egypt, he later destroyed ones not showing faith.

Jude’s warning would be pointless if Christians did not face a similar danger to those Israelites. Jude is not questioning the value of Jesus sacrifice, nor am I. Jesus sacrifice saved us from Adamic sin, and Jesus will protect those who continue to demonstrate faith in him. But individually we can lose that protection by doing what those Israelites who were saved from Egypt did. By deliberately disobeying God.

Christians as a group are in a saved condition. Their salvation from Adamic sin and its consequences are sure. But individually they are saved to eternal life only if they continue to adhere to all God’s requirements. Jesus emphasised this at John 15:2,6 where he likens himself to a vine and his disciples to branches. One losing faith in Jesus also lose salvation, lose everlasting life.

Additionally the Apostle Paul’s words at Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26,27 clearly show that a Christian once saved can lose that salvation.

I would add Romans 11:17-24
Where Paul warns of the possibility of Gentile Christians being cut off.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ Again (for the readers) one should read and understand Romans 11 in its context... I made a post back on Page 1 (Post #15) of this thread, on that (again, for the readers):

https://christianchat.com/threads/e...d-once-saved-always-saved.194033/post-4340389

 

[soggykitten]

Is it possible for a Christian to lose his salvation? Under what conditions, if any, can one's salvation be forfeited? Millions of Christians live their lives as close to these questions as they can, gambling on the goodness and mercy of God to save them, continually, in their sin rather than from it. Millions more spend their faith on works attempting to offer a better sacrifice, but in reality bypass the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I would say the two most dangerous words for anyone to utter, and God forbid, anyone hearing to believe, is, Conditional Salvation!
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have an everlasting life based on the following terms and conditions....Offer expires the moment you prove you're not perfect and are indeed a fallible saved human being. See bottom of the Bible for details. Offer expires______________"

 

[soggykitten]

That's what the Deceiver told you. And you fell for it.

We can only pray God opens their eyes.
Romans 5:9

ὑπακούω (hypakouō)
Strong: G5219

GK: G5634

to give ear; to listen, Acts 12:13; to obey, Mt. 8:27; Mk. 1:27; in NT to render submissive acceptance, Acts 6:7; Rom. 6:17; 2 Thess. 1:8; Heb. 5:9; absol. to be submissive, Phil. 2:12

See everywhere hypakouō appears in the New Testament via teknia.com.