Does man have a freewill ?
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Thanks for the invite. I have no interest in the study, but thanks.
"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
And no desire to see how badly these clear words of scripture are mangled and twisted by those who simply like to argue for the sake of it.
"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
And no desire to see how badly these clear words of scripture are mangled and twisted by those who simply like to argue for the sake of it.
I've been kicking this subject around in my brain for awhile so what do you think about it?
Let's take a look at Foreknowledge for a moment.
For those He FOREKNEW:
This is God knowing someone or something before they ever existed. But it donned onto me that is this the Omniscient ALL KNOWING side of God? Or did we exist before the foundation of the world and then came into existence at our appointed time and the spirit side of our being reconnected when God called us out of darkness?
Think for a moment about the [(PASSION)] side of our being. What is it you just enjoy doing the most? I teach and preach. My PASSION is for anyone I am able to speak to and them hear I want them to know about God. So could have my spirit existed before the foundation of the world and my PASSION was to preach and teach and when I was formed in the Union of my parents I was destined to be as I was before I became who I am?
Let's take a look at Foreknowledge for a moment.
For those He FOREKNEW:
This is God knowing someone or something before they ever existed. But it donned onto me that is this the Omniscient ALL KNOWING side of God? Or did we exist before the foundation of the world and then came into existence at our appointed time and the spirit side of our being reconnected when God called us out of darkness?
Think for a moment about the [(PASSION)] side of our being. What is it you just enjoy doing the most? I teach and preach. My PASSION is for anyone I am able to speak to and them hear I want them to know about God. So could have my spirit existed before the foundation of the world and my PASSION was to preach and teach and when I was formed in the Union of my parents I was destined to be as I was before I became who I am?
Only that some sins become traditions of men. Yet, even as perfect children with a perfect Parent, Adam and Woman resisted God.
And to be clear the "excuse" man is unable to assert that they do not need God, not that He is not real. Since creation displays His character and qualities, we must agree that all men know God is.
Here is God being suppressed by ungodly men even though what may be known of God is in them:
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them."
To this statement:
Man certainly changed because of sin, but an aspect of man's nature, like God's, can not change. He was still in need of the Heavenly Father. The spirit in man is the residence of this need. As long as man had a spirit given to him by God this need would remain in man. Created with that need, and being a part of creation himself that testified of God, man could only resist the testimony of the Spirit and creation.
Let me put it another way: if God can only understand the things of God, then how can there be an account of a witness of God's nature in creation to all men?
You would have to conclude that only some men could understand that witness yet the scripture says that ALL men are without excuse.
The answer is: men ARE creation. The witness of God resides in them just as it does in the trees and the mountains.
And to be clear the "excuse" man is unable to assert that they do not need God, not that He is not real. Since creation displays His character and qualities, we must agree that all men know God is.
Here is God being suppressed by ungodly men even though what may be known of God is in them:
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them."
To this statement:
Man certainly changed because of sin, but an aspect of man's nature, like God's, can not change. He was still in need of the Heavenly Father. The spirit in man is the residence of this need. As long as man had a spirit given to him by God this need would remain in man. Created with that need, and being a part of creation himself that testified of God, man could only resist the testimony of the Spirit and creation.
Let me put it another way: if God can only understand the things of God, then how can there be an account of a witness of God's nature in creation to all men?
You would have to conclude that only some men could understand that witness yet the scripture says that ALL men are without excuse.
The answer is: men ARE creation. The witness of God resides in them just as it does in the trees and the mountains.
Again, all this is true. I don't deny any of it. What I'm saying is that simply because man has a spirit that attests to the reality of God, doesn't mean in his fallen state he is able to undo the effects sin has had upon him. Man is in fact helpless to be saved apart from the intervention of God. And this is what the substance of my posts are about. Men will not choose to seek God, do good, or please God without God first drawing him, changing his heart and setting him free.
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who believes this? Except a legalist who think they are saved because they Got baptised. or believe they are saved because they do good works. or any other type of work in which they can boast in the works they did to earn salvation.
Most of us in this room that I see do not say this yet we are accused of it
Most of us in this room that I see do not say this yet we are accused of it
No, you say you made a choice. That is your contribution to salvation.
The Bible doesn't teach that we make a choice to believe. We either believe something or we don't. When I was saved, I heard the gospel and simply believed it. I didn't say to myself...should I believe or shouldn't I? Other times I heard the gospel and didn't believe. Again, I didn't say to myself...what do I choose? I simply didn't believe. The difference between the two responses is that God was working in me when I believed, but not when I didn't.
The Bible doesn't teach that we make a choice to believe. We either believe something or we don't. When I was saved, I heard the gospel and simply believed it. I didn't say to myself...should I believe or shouldn't I? Other times I heard the gospel and didn't believe. Again, I didn't say to myself...what do I choose? I simply didn't believe. The difference between the two responses is that God was working in me when I believed, but not when I didn't.
But I can not boast in that. Because God forced me to make a choice.. He did not force me to believe 9as you insist he does)
He who believes is not condemned
he who does not believe is condemned already
sounds like we have two choices.. and only 2
so no one repents? and changes their mind?
You did not have to ask yourself. but you chose to believe.
You could have chose to walk away, but you did not.
your reading to much into it.
in every case, you made a chioce. You do not have to think you have to make a choice.
If I am driving toward a wall. I have to make a choice. continue straight and die. or turn and live
I do not say to myself. I need to make a choice. I just do it
He who believes is not condemned
he who does not believe is condemned already
sounds like we have two choices.. and only 2
so no one repents? and changes their mind?
You did not have to ask yourself. but you chose to believe.
You could have chose to walk away, but you did not.
your reading to much into it.
in every case, you made a chioce. You do not have to think you have to make a choice.
If I am driving toward a wall. I have to make a choice. continue straight and die. or turn and live
I do not say to myself. I need to make a choice. I just do it
your right
God did not chose to send one baby to hell before they were born and one to heaven (a faulty view of Romans 9)
He chose that if one baby say and believed, he would be saved. if one did not. they would be condemned. if both believed, he would be glorified.
if both rejected. he would be sad. Because it does not give him pleasur to kill the wicked.. or to send them to hell.
Hell was made for satan and his angels. Not mankind Man chose to join satan in unbelieve. God did not will it
God did not chose to send one baby to hell before they were born and one to heaven (a faulty view of Romans 9)
He chose that if one baby say and believed, he would be saved. if one did not. they would be condemned. if both believed, he would be glorified.
if both rejected. he would be sad. Because it does not give him pleasur to kill the wicked.. or to send them to hell.
Hell was made for satan and his angels. Not mankind Man chose to join satan in unbelieve. God did not will it
