Does God want us to choose between law and grace?

[know1]

Proof? If I send you a wall of scripture, are you going to study it from a dipensational point of view? Or are you going to skim it, reject it, and come back with another wall of scripture that is not in The dispensation of Grace.....you could look into the subject, apparently we all have labels, and save me the work, read on it, and simply deny the possibility’, that it is sound doctrine....

One good one would have sufficed.
But if you can't rebut my last post, what good is more scripture?
In my opinion, if I can't show, what may appear to be contradictory scripture, I haven't won the argument.
I have approximately 54 computer pages showing that is it possible for a true believer to lose there salvation, so I'm not going to bother with the wall of text thing, and that would be digressing from the subject of the thread.

 

[Rightlydivided]

One good one would have sufficed.
But if you can't rebut my last post, what good is more scripture?
In my opinion, if I can't show, what may appear to be contradictory scripture, I haven't won the argument.
I have approximately 54 computer pages showing that is it possible for a true believer to lose there salvation, so I'm not going to bother with the wall of text thing, and that would be digressing from the subject of the thread.

I’ll say this,

If you can show me, that it is possible, for you to deem yourself, no longer your fathers son(assuming that you are a man).I will crown you victorious myself, and give you the right hand of fellowship

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I wonder if we can figure out what cult he represents just by the clues he leaves.

Any ideas? You will have to keep me up,to,date, i can not see his posts anymore?

 

[Grandpa]

Any ideas? You will have to keep me up,to,date, i can not see his posts anymore?

Not 100% sure. He short circuits just like Hebrew Roots and SDA's. Everything comes back to the law.

There are so many flavors of legalism it would probably be hard to pinpoint. Some people study these heresies but I don't. I just know from arguing with them on here.

 

[Rightlydivided]

One good one would have sufficed.
But if you can't rebut my last post, what good is more scripture?
In my opinion, if I can't show, what may appear to be contradictory scripture, I haven't won the argument.
I have approximately 54 computer pages showing that is it possible for a true believer to lose there salvation, so I'm not going to bother with the wall of text thing, and that would be digressing from the subject of the thread.

My concern, is that you say you have 54 pages of proof....of something that is impossible...yet cannot see a gift, only 1 word long, right in front of you......

 

[know1]

I do not believe the same doctrine you are referring to, nor do I believe that the powers given to the deciples, equates to powers we see in the church....when someone is dying of sickness, it is not going to be healed simply by laying hands on them..( this is by no means doubt) I believe that God can and will do whatever he wants) Paul says that some are blessed with this gift....but it is not common.....which should also help you understand the dispensation that we are in...

It is definitely doubt, compounded with ignorance of God's word, sir.
If you don't know what God's will is, then you are at best, HOPING, WISHING, OR WONDERING.
That most assuredly is not biblical faith or believing.
How is it that I can command a sickness or disease to go, in the name of Jesus, and it does?
God said His people perish for LACK OF KNOWLEDGE.
One of the big problems with the church is the willful rejection of the knowledge that is in Jesus.
A pastor or the congregation of a denominational church influences and convinces the ignorant, and then they go out like gullible children trying to spread or propagate a message they received, believing it to be true or the truth, without really knowing for themselves, personally.
Most of what I learned came from a voice I would hear, backed up with scripture.
If the anointing didn't teach you or reveal something to you personally, then it is doubtful you got the revelation of the truth.
And from what I gleaned from your posts, and I'm not trying to be mean about it, but you do not know what faith is, or how healing works, or how the kingdom of God works, or even what it is.
Just to let you know, the disciples didn't have anything that is not available to us today.
But, I will let this go, as it is pointless and a wast of both your's and my time, and just agree that we disagree with each other's understanding of the subjects discussed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not 100% sure. He short circuits just like Hebrew Roots and SDA's. Everything comes back to the law.

There are so many flavors of legalism it would probably be hard to pinpoint. Some people study these heresies but I don't. I just know from arguing with them on here.

I did not realise there were so many flavors till i got here, i thought i had heard them all, boy was I wromg

 

[Rightlydivided]

It is definitely doubt, compounded with ignorance of God's word, sir.
If you don't know what God's will is, then you are at best, HOPING, WISHING, OR WONDERING.
That most assuredly is not biblical faith or believing.
How is it that I can command a sickness or disease to go, in the name of Jesus, and it does?
God said His people perish for LACK OF KNOWLEDGE.
One of the big problems with the church is the willful rejection of the knowledge that is in Jesus.
A pastor or the congregation of a denominational church influences and convinces the ignorant, and then they go out like gullible children trying to spread or propagate a message they received, believing it to be true or the truth, without really knowing for themselves, personally.
Most of what I learned came from a voice I would hear, backed up with scripture.
If the anointing didn't teach you or reveal something to you personally, then it is doubtful you got the revelation of the truth.
And from what I gleaned from your posts, and I'm not trying to be mean about it, but you do not know what faith is, or how healing works, or how the kingdom of God works, or even what it is.
Just to let you know, the disciples didn't have anything that is not available to us today.
But, I will let this go, as it is pointless and a wast of both your's and my time, and just agree that we disagree with each other's understanding of the subjects discussed.

Ok then, the deciples were able to “heal” on the SPOT, WITHOUT FAIL SIR!! they were empowered by God, so that those they witnessed to, would believe!! DURING Christ’s earthly ministry, and on to Paul......This is another subject that absolutely infuriates me....WHEN AND WHERE have you ever seen anyone “heal, without fail, as the deciples did, every time”?

NEVER! That should be your clue, as to the false doctrine you are spreading, WE do not have the gifts of the deciples....I DO believe as Paul says “SOME” are given the gift of healing....yes, it is true, “SOME” are also given the gift of “tongues”.......THe deciples, were given “ALL” the gifts, even RAISING the DEAD.......Can you do that sir?

 

[Tim416]

No need to apologize sir, this is a public forum, so anyone can jump in someone else's dialog. I do it to others, so I welcome the same done to me. So long as it's not the bad kind, like trying to make personal attacks or belittling remarks.
The point I was making is, if we are all automatically forgiven, like so many say, then why are we told to repent and confess our sins so we can be forgiven of our sins.
As for the subject of the thread, I say yes, we have to choose between the law and grace.

As a child I did not always obey my parents rules. I was naughty at times! And I used to go and ask their forgiveness for bad behaviour, and when I did, I was always forgiven. My repentance and confession was followed by their forgiveness. But throughout these times, I was always a member of their family, that was never in doubt

 

[know1]

I’ll say this,

If you can show me, that it is possible, for you to deem yourself, no longer your fathers son(assuming that you are a man).I will crown you victorious myself, and give you the right hand of fellowship

For the record, I am indeed a man, and yes, I can prove that we get cut off from Christ. Not so much as losing our sonship, as to dying.
To keep this short and concise, I will not go into much scripture, but only a few.
First, I would like you to know that we are born again BY the gospel we receive personally and act upon. And when I say by the gospel, I mean the words themselves. Even as the worlds were formed and consist to this very day, BY the word of God, the same holds true for salvation. We are saved and sealed BY THE WORD OF GOD..... so long as we KEEP SAID WORD.

1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

Again, this is only one verse among many that say we will stay or continue in the Son or in Christ, SO LONG AS WE KEEP THE WORDS WE HEARD IN OUR HEART.

So after we are born again, we are in Christ and He is in us. In fact, we become part of His body.

Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

So we are in and a part of the body of Christ, right?

Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

In the above verses, Jesus tells us what we should do to a body part that offends us, which is to cut it off and throw it from you, so you can enter into life everlasting and not be thrown into hell having just one corrupt body part.
Remember the one person who sinned by taking some items of a cursed nation, how it affected the whole nation of Israel? The who nation became cursed because of one man.
Remember what Jesus and Paul said, about a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
The leaven is symbolic of or like sin. It is corruption and offensive to the clean or pure, similar to cancer attacking a healthy body. It eventually spreads throughout the whole body.
Now, if Jesus tells us to cut off that which is offensive to us who are made righteous by the blood of Christ, which is the same word for sin, so we do get cast into the hell, HOW MUCH MORE WILL JESUS CUT OFF AND CAST AWAY THAT WHICH IS OFFENSIVE TO HIM?
Seeing we are part of His body, we then are a part of His body or flesh, how much more will He cut off those that are offensive to Him?
Again, a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. If one of us becomes the leaven in the lump or body of Christ, won't He do what He commanded us to do?
If He doesn't, then He Himself would be a hypocrite.
Remember the prodigal son?
Are we not sons of God.
When the son was in sin, he was lost and dead to the father, like the branches to the vine in John 15. God cuts them off, and then they dry up, die and are cast into the fire.
But what happened when He repented.
He was both found and alive AGAIN.
And so it is with those who defile the temple.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

We are the temple of God, in the body of Christ, in the vine, so long as we KEEP THE TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL IN OUR HEARTS, DON'T GO OFF INTO SIN, WHICH IS AN OFFENSE TO GOD, AND PRODUCE GOOD FRUIT, GOD WON'T CUT US OFF FROM CHRIST.

 

[Rightlydivided]

For the record, I am indeed a man, and yes, I can prove that we get cut off from Christ. Not so much as losing our sonship, as to dying.
To keep this short and concise, I will not go into much scripture, but only a few.
First, I would like you to know that we are born again BY the gospel we receive personally and act upon. And when I say by the gospel, I mean the words themselves. Even as the worlds were formed and consist to this very day, BY the word of God, the same holds true for salvation. We are saved and sealed BY THE WORD OF GOD..... so long as we KEEP SAID WORD.

1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

Again, this is only one verse among many that say we will stay or continue in the Son or in Christ, SO LONG AS WE KEEP THE WORDS WE HEARD IN OUR HEART.

So after we are born again, we are in Christ and He is in us. In fact, we become part of His body.

Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

So we are in and a part of the body of Christ, right?

Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

In the above verses, Jesus tells us what we should do to a body part that offends us, which is to cut it off and throw it from you, so you can enter into life everlasting and not be thrown into hell having just one corrupt body part.
Remember the one person who sinned by taking some items of a cursed nation, how it affected the whole nation of Israel? The who nation became cursed because of one man.
Remember what Jesus and Paul said, about a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
The leaven is symbolic of or like sin. It is corruption and offensive to the clean or pure, similar to cancer attacking a healthy body. It eventually spreads throughout the whole body.
Now, if Jesus tells us to cut off that which is offensive to us who are made righteous by the blood of Christ, which is the same word for sin, so we do get cast into the hell, HOW MUCH MORE WILL JESUS CUT OFF AND CAST AWAY THAT WHICH IS OFFENSIVE TO HIM?
Seeing we are part of His body, we then are a part of His body or flesh, how much more will He cut off those that are offensive to Him?
Again, a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. If one of us becomes the leaven in the lump or body of Christ, won't He do what He commanded us to do?
If He doesn't, then He Himself would be a hypocrite.
Remember the prodigal son?
Are we not sons of God.
When the son was in sin, he was lost and dead to the father, like the branches to the vine in John 15. God cuts them off, and then they dry up, die and are cast into the fire.
But what happened when He repented.
He was both found and alive AGAIN.
And so it is with those who defile the temple.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

We are the temple of God, in the body of Christ, in the vine, so long as we KEEP THE TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL IN OUR HEARTS, DON'T GO OFF INTO SIN, WHICH IS AN OFFENSE TO GOD, AND PRODUCE GOOD FRUIT, GOD WON'T CUT US OFF FROM CHRIST.

Know1, if you are going to jump from the gospel of the kingdom, to the gospel preached by Paul......you need to understand, that you are going back and forth, from 1 dispensation of the Law, presched unto the lost sheep of Israel, in which you are not, to the dispensation of Grace, revealed through Paul, as the mystery, to the gentiles.....Paul preached the words that Jesus revealed unto him, which was not known before....now, it is neither Jew nor gentile.....1 gospel, Grace through Faith alone without works.....thats the starting point.....no entry fee.....works comes through sanctification

 

[know1]

Ok then, the deciples were able to “heal” on the SPOT, WITHOUT FAIL SIR!! they were empowered by God, so that those they witnessed to, would believe!! DURING Christ’s earthly ministry, and on to Paul......This is another subject that absolutely infuriates me....WHEN AND WHERE have you ever seen anyone “heal, without fail, as the deciples did, every time”?

NEVER! That should be your clue, as to the false doctrine you are spreading, WE do not have the gifts of the deciples....I DO believe as Paul says “SOME” are given the gift of healing....yes, it is true, “SOME” are also given the gift of “tongues”.......THe deciples, were given “ALL” the gifts, even RAISING the DEAD.......Can you do that sir?

I believe you need to read the bible more closely.
Both Jesus and His disciples did not heal everyone all the time.
And so no, I certainly have not had healings 100 percent of the time.
People's doubt can negate your faith when you pray for them, even as it did when Jesus prayed for many who failed to receive their healing.
But here again, you are taking your eyes off of the word of God or spiritual and put it on the natural.
One reason why many fail to receive is because they fail to keep their eyes off the natural and on the promises of God.
Remember, it is the word of God that heals, not me or anyone else.
Without faith in God to perform His word, KNOWING He will do what is written, and that the written word IS His will, you will not have the faith necessary for healing.
Again, you will just be hoping.
If you fall away from believing the truth, you will be like the plant that died when the sun rose up and scorched it.
Healing is done by God's word of power.

 

[know1]

Know1, if you are going to jump from the gospel of the kingdom, to the gospel preached by Paul......you need to understand, that you are going back and forth, from 1 dispensation of the Law, presched unto the lost sheep of Israel, in which you are not, to the dispensation of Grace, revealed through Paul, as the mystery, to the gentiles.....Paul preached the words that Jesus revealed unto him, which was not known before....

They are one and the same.
One cannot enter into the kingdom of God without receiving the Gospel of Christ.

 

[Rightlydivided]

They are one and the same.
One cannot enter into the kingdom of God without receiving the Gospel of Christ.

You are correct, I agree......but that program was stopped, at the stoning of Stephen.....God turn to the gentiles to provoke jealousy......grafting us, into the olive tree....that program, starts again, during the 7 year tribulation.....he saves a remnant, to pick back up on Matthew 28....after the 7 years of tribulation, Jesus will rule in the Kingdom on earth, in which he originally came to claim as “king of the Jews” fulfilling the prophecy of the “messiah”

 

[know1]

Know1, if you are going to jump from the gospel of the kingdom, to the gospel preached by Paul......you need to understand, that you are going back and forth, from 1 dispensation of the Law, presched unto the lost sheep of Israel, in which you are not, to the dispensation of Grace, revealed through Paul, as the mystery, to the gentiles.....Paul preached the words that Jesus revealed unto him, which was not known before....now, it is neither Jew nor gentile.....1 gospel, Grace through Faith alone without works.....thats the starting point.....no entry fee.....works comes through sanctification

But Jesus preach never ending truths.
Jesus' words didn't end when He rose from the dead and sat at the right hand of God the Father.
EVERY word of God MUST be fulfilled.
The law of faith from the old testament was carried into the new. It did not die away with the old.
for example, whatsoever a man sows that shall he also reap.
Both Jesus and Paul said that.

 

[Rightlydivided]

But Jesus preach never ending truths.
Jesus' words didn't end when He rose from the dead and sat at the right hand of God the Father.
EVERY word of God MUST be fulfilled.
The law of faith from the old testament was carried into the new. It did not die away with the old.
for example, whatsoever a man sows that shall he also reap.
Both Jesus and Paul said that.

This conversation we are having, is much better than any other.....I am just words on a screen, yet you atleast have the ability to test what it is that I am saying....I grew up in a Baptist Church, the same doctrine you serve.....I watched family’s fall apart.....atleast consider looking into it, if you have not already.....when I finally got it.....I almost jumped through the roof lol

 

[Rightlydivided]

This conversation we are having, is much better than any other.....I am just words on a screen, yet you atleast have the ability to test what it is that I am saying....I grew up in a Baptist Church, the same doctrine you serve.....I watched family’s fall apart.....atleast consider looking into it, if you have not already.....when I finally got it.....I almost jumped through the roof lol

Take Matthew, put it next to Romans’

Do this, read it over ......open your heart and see the contradiction......God has no contradiction in his words....they conflict for a reason

 

[Rightlydivided]

But Jesus preach never ending truths.
Jesus' words didn't end when He rose from the dead and sat at the right hand of God the Father.
EVERY word of God MUST be fulfilled.
The law of faith from the old testament was carried into the new. It did not die away with the old.
for example, whatsoever a man sows that shall he also reap.
Both Jesus and Paul said that.

Paul is preaching Jesus’s words, Paul was chosen, by Jesus, specifically

 

[Rightlydivided]

Take Matthew, put it next to Romans’

Do this, read it over ......open your heart and see the contradiction......God has no contradiction in his words....they conflict for a reason

I shouldn’t call it a contradiction, the deciples did not understand Jesus, until after the ressurection, even then, before Matthew 28, some of them doubted....how could you receive the Grace message, when Christ was preaching while the law was still practiced......Paul is your appostle, he represents Christ to you.....

 

[Tim416]

..Paul is your appostle, he represents Christ to you.....

Paul states:
The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56 The legally enforceable law with the power to condemn for imperfections concerning it.
The law that is holy, just and good Rom7:12
God did not abolish what was holy just and good, he did not have to, to remove the power of sin from believers lives. He created a new covenant.
It is no longer an external law written on tablets of stone, but an internal law written on tablets of human hearts(2cor3:3), meaning in the believers heart they want to live as God desires them to live. God put what was holy, just and good in believers hearts. At the same time he did this, he gave believers a saviour from their sin/transgressions of the law. (Herb10:15-17)They have no righteousness of obeying the law. Believers cannot use this as a licence to sin, for they in their hearts want to live according to what is written in those commandments, for that is where the law has been placed.
With the penalty of sin being removed from the believer, the power of sin is also removed, what is left, is simply what is holy, just and good.
The born again christians heartfelt desire to obey(for that is where the law has been placed) can now come to fruition, for what opposes obedience(sin) was dealt a rushing blow by Christ dying to remove its true power from the believers life(righteousness of obeying the law, and so Paul states:
For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law(righteousness of obeying the law) but under grace(through faith in Christ)
Hence
Do we make void the law through faith? God forbid. Yea, we establish the law Rom3:31
Great message Paul had isn't it