Does God make Christians sick to take them home?

[glf1]

1 Jn 5: 16, 17
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

An amazing ability given to us from the Lord so that we might minister life to the brethren who're stumbling into sin.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Hi Kelby, what is the correct understanding of verse 7??

Isaiah 45 King James Version (KJV)
45 Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

5 I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the Lord have created it.

9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?

11 Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the Lord of hosts.

14 Thus saith the Lord, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God.

15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.

19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the Lord speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.

Hi Learner,

My apologies for not replying sooner. You've asked a great question and picked a good verse to suggest an opposing point of view. I'll do my best to explain my point of view.

Ultimately, every situation that exists, exists because of the word of God. John 1:3 KJV All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

In my view, God also IS his word, per John 1:1 So, anything and every situation that comes about happens within the word of God...and by extension, within God himself.

God is not shirking his involvement in this respect...as Isaiah 45:7 highlights. He is acknowledging that it all exists (both good and evil) because the application of his word creates each.

For example, it was God's word / God that gave Adam life... AND... access to something that could end Adam's life. God's word / God additionally explained what would happen if Adam chose the life-ending action, and instructed him NOT to do it for that reason. However, God's word / God left the choice in Adam's hands (because God's word / God loved Adam and wanted him to be FREE). Adam chose the action that would bring death, and God's word / God allowed the result to follow...because God's word / God wasn't lying to Adam.

In that example, God's word / God had to both maintain his own integrity AND allow for something to exist that was contrary to his own integrity...aka SIN and ultimately death. And again, ALL of this has to exist within God's word / God.

At this point I'm hoping you are a praying person because there are many things within God's word / God that cannot be comprehended without God opening our understanding... otherwise it just sounds like foolishness or even blasphemy. I do also request that none go so far as to "speak evil of that which they know not".

And I think I'll stop here to see how well even this much is received.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby



BTW, if you received notice that I "liked" then unliked your post it's because I accidentally hit "Like" while intending to hit "Reply" then hit undo almost as a reflexive response to that original slip of my mouse. After short consideration, I realized that I should have left the unintended "like" in place because undoing it could be taken as finding the comment distasteful...which is not the case. I think it a very reasonable question.

 

[TheLearner]

We must not seek to find sin in sothrs rather we should seek to show mercy where ever possible. It becomes easier with practice.

Huh

 

[TheLearner]

1 Jn 5: 16, 17
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

An amazing ability given to us from the Lord so that we might minister life to the brethren who're stumbling into sin.

I thought that was spiritual death, did I miss the point?

 

[TheLearner]

read to here

 

[BillG]

Does God make Christians sick to take them home?

I would say no he does not make Christians sick to take them home.

I say this because if he has to make them sick to bring them home then we are saying that he is reacting to a belivers life that he was not aware would happen.

I agree with @Nehemiah6

At the same time, each person has their allotted time on earth, and that *bullet* won't find you before that time.

Given the above I would say that from creation God knows the day we would be born and the day we will die. I personally believe that nothing we can do will change that.

When Adam &Eve sinned the plan of redemption was already in place.
God knew the exact time he would come to earth in the flesh and die on the cross.

So for me I believe God knows every year, month, day, minute and second of our lives.
He knows or are his and those who are not (side note I don't believe this to be an excuse to not preach and walk in the gospel of Jesus)

Death will come to all as a result of sin.

So I believe God will allow a believer to die to bring them home.
Not just of sickness though and not inflicted, but allowed.

Given your question my assumption is (and I could be wrong) that you ask the question that God makes them sick in order to bring them home incase they lose salvation.

 

[TheLearner]

I would say no he does not make Christians sick to take them home.

I say this because if he has to make them sick to bring them home then we are saying that he is reacting to a belivers life that he was not aware would happen.

I agree with @Nehemiah6



Given the above I would say that from creation God knows the day we would be born and the day we will die. I personally believe that nothing we can do will change that.

When Adam &Eve sinned the plan of redemption was already in place.
God knew the exact time he would come to earth in the flesh and die on the cross.

So for me I believe God knows every year, month, day, minute and second of our lives.
He knows or are his and those who are not (side note I don't believe this to be an excuse to not preach and walk in the gospel of Jesus)

Death will come to all as a result of sin.

So I believe God will allow a believer to die to bring them home.
Not just of sickness though and not inflicted, but allowed.

Given your question my assumption is (and I could be wrong) that you ask the question that God makes them sick in order to bring them home incase they lose salvation.

How do you explain the I Cor 11 text?

 

[TheLearner]

 

[Guojing]

Acts 10:38 And you know that God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. Then Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.

Luke 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

From these 2 scriptures, sickness came from Satan. When God created Adam and Eve in the Garden, sickness did not exist. Sickness came in when sin came in.

 

[TheLearner]

Acts 10:38 And you know that God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. Then Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.

Luke 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

From these 2 scriptures, sickness came from Satan. When God created Adam and Eve in the Garden, sickness did not exist. Sickness came in when sin came in.

That does not answer the question. You have not addressed scriptures put forth by others.

 

[Guojing]

That does not answer the question. You have not addressed scriptures put forth by others.

My answer to the question in the op is simple, God does not make anyone sick, only the devil make people sick.

 

[KelbyofGod]

I would say no he does not make Christians sick to take them home.

I say this because if he has to make them sick to bring them home then we are saying that he is reacting to a belivers life that he was not aware would happen.
...
Given the above I would say that from creation God knows the day we would be born and the day we will die. I personally believe that nothing we can do will change that.

I might suggest that God has a day appointed for each of us, but does allow us to affect it.

For example, consider how Adam's sin affected his lifespan, if you believe God intended him to life forever.

Here are a few scriptures suggesting that man's actions might influence the day/time of one's death. (I especially appreciate Ecclesiastes 7:16 statements of some rarely taught side effects of wisdom, knowledge and righteousness, so it's included as a bonus)

Ecclesiastes 7:16-17 KJV
Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself? 17 Be not over much wicked, neither be thou foolish: why shouldest thou die before thy time?

Ezekiel 13:19 KJV
And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[BillG]

I might suggest that God has a day appointed for each of us, but does allow us to affect it.

For example, consider how Adam's sin affected his lifespan, if you believe God intended him to life forever.

Here are a few scriptures suggesting that man's actions might influence the day/time of one's death. (I especially appreciate Ecclesiastes 7:16 statements of some rarely taught side effects of wisdom, knowledge and righteousness, so it's included as a bonus)

Ecclesiastes 7:16-17 KJV
Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself? 17 Be not over much wicked, neither be thou foolish: why shouldest thou die before thy time?

Ezekiel 13:19 KJV
And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I hear what you are saying.

I do believe though that God knows our born date and the date we die.

I do not believe that God will make a person sick to bring them home.
You quote Adam.
His sin affected his timespan on earth.

That I agree with because I believe a plan was already in place.
The plan of redemption through Jesus.
So through Jesus we will live forever.
So I believe God knew what would happen.

Some Bible verses from me

Ecclesiastes 3:1-2
A Time for Everything
1 For everything there is a season,
a time for every activity under heaven.
2 A time to be born and a time to die.
A time to plant and a time to harvest.

Psalms 39:4
4 “Lord, remind me how brief my time on earth will be.
Remind me that my days are numbered—
how fleeting my life is.

Psalms 139:16
16 You saw me before I was born.
Every day of my life was recorded in your book.
Every moment was laid out
before a single day had passed.

Hebrews 9:27
27 And just as each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment,

So yes I agree that God knows our appointed date with regards to our last breath.
Can we change it?
I have to say no, because if we could is it appointed?

God is omniscient. He knows everything and knows exactly when, where and how we will die. Nothing we can do will change what God already knows will happen.

Love in Jesus to you as well.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

THE CONSECRATION OF THE SAINT

“12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he has is in your power; only upon himself put not forth your hand. So Satan went forth from the Presence of the LORD. (There were limitations placed on what Satan could do, as there are with all Believers. Concerning this, Williams says: “Job does not symbolize an unconverted, but a converted, man. It was necessary that one of God’s children should be chosen for this trial; for the subject of the Book is not the conversion of the sinner, but the consecration of the Saint. It is evident that an unconverted man needs to be brought to the end of himself; but that a man who feared God, who was perfect, and who hated evil should also need this is not so clear.

“We find in this Book that God uses Satan, calamity, and sickness to be His instruments in creating character and making men partakers of His Holiness. Such were the instruments; but the Hand that used them was God’s; and the facts of this Book explain to Christian people, who, like Job, are conscious of personal integrity, why calamities, sorrows, and diseases are permitted to afflict them.”)” Job 1:12

“22 Confirming the souls of the Disciples (pertained to the new converts in these areas), and exhorting them to continue in the Faith (it is not he who begins, but he who finishes), and that we must through much tribulation enter into the Kingdom of God (quite a different Message than that being presently proposed).” Acts14:22

Until the time came to fulfill his dreams, the LORD tested Joseph’s character. (Regarding the mission that God had for Joseph, which Joseph was not even aware of, he would have to be put to the test. Faith must be tested, and great Faith must be tested greatly.)” Psalm 105:19 NLT

“10 Behold, I have refined you, but not with silver; I have chosen you in the furnace of affliction. (Israel was “refined” in Egypt, and was to be “refined” after Isaiah’s day in Babylon, and will be “refined” during the coming Great Tribulation. The “furnace of affliction” always has to do with wrongdoing on the part of the individual or nation. The Lord allows the affliction, hopefully, that it will bring the person or nation to Repentance! Consequently, Israel still has one great “furnace of affliction” to go through!)” Isaiah 48:10

“7 That the trial of your Faith (all Faith is tested, and great Faith must be tested greatly), being much more precious than of gold that perishes (the emphasis is the testing of our Faith to show whether or not it is genuine; the Holy Spirit says such is more precious than the testing of gold, which is the most precious commodity in the world; is our Faith really in the Cross or not?), though it be tried with fire (the fire of temptation, trouble, etc.; such are meant to show the weakness), might be found unto Praise and Honour and Glory (which can only be done if the Cross of Christ is the sole Object of our Faith) at the appearing of Jesus Christ (we are being prepared by the Holy Spirit as fit subjects for the appearing of our Lord, as it regards the Rapture):” 1 Peter 1:7

JSM

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

THE CONSECRATION OF THE SAINT

“12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he has is in your power; only upon himself put not forth your hand. So Satan went forth from the Presence of the LORD. (There were limitations placed on what Satan could do, as there are with all Believers. Concerning this, Williams says: “Job does not symbolize an unconverted, but a converted, man. It was necessary that one of God’s children should be chosen for this trial; for the subject of the Book is not the conversion of the sinner, but the consecration of the Saint. It is evident that an unconverted man needs to be brought to the end of himself; but that a man who feared God, who was perfect, and who hated evil should also need this is not so clear.

“We find in this Book that God uses Satan, calamity, and sickness to be His instruments in creating character and making men partakers of His Holiness. Such were the instruments; but the Hand that used them was God’s; and the facts of this Book explain to Christian people, who, like Job, are conscious of personal integrity, why calamities, sorrows, and diseases are permitted to afflict them.”)” Job 1:12

“22 Confirming the souls of the Disciples (pertained to the new converts in these areas), and exhorting them to continue in the Faith (it is not he who begins, but he who finishes), and that we must through much tribulation enter into the Kingdom of God (quite a different Message than that being presently proposed).” Acts14:22

Until the time came to fulfill his dreams, the LORD tested Joseph’s character. (Regarding the mission that God had for Joseph, which Joseph was not even aware of, he would have to be put to the test. Faith must be tested, and great Faith must be tested greatly.)” Psalm 105:19 NLT

“10 Behold, I have refined you, but not with silver; I have chosen you in the furnace of affliction. (Israel was “refined” in Egypt, and was to be “refined” after Isaiah’s day in Babylon, and will be “refined” during the coming Great Tribulation. The “furnace of affliction” always has to do with wrongdoing on the part of the individual or nation. The Lord allows the affliction, hopefully, that it will bring the person or nation to Repentance! Consequently, Israel still has one great “furnace of affliction” to go through!)” Isaiah 48:10

“7 That the trial of your Faith (all Faith is tested, and great Faith must be tested greatly), being much more precious than of gold that perishes (the emphasis is the testing of our Faith to show whether or not it is genuine; the Holy Spirit says such is more precious than the testing of gold, which is the most precious commodity in the world; is our Faith really in the Cross or not?), though it be tried with fire (the fire of temptation, trouble, etc.; such are meant to show the weakness), might be found unto Praise and Honour and Glory (which can only be done if the Cross of Christ is the sole Object of our Faith) at the appearing of Jesus Christ (we are being prepared by the Holy Spirit as fit subjects for the appearing of our Lord, as it regards the Rapture):” 1 Peter 1:7

JSM

Continue

“12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you (trials do not merely happen; they are designed by wisdom and operated by love; Job proved this), as though some strange thing happened unto you (your trial, whatever it is, is not unique; many others are experiencing the same thing!):

13 But rejoice (despite the trial), inasmuch as you are partakers of Christ’s sufferings (refers to suffering for Righteousness’ sake); that, when His Glory shall be revealed (refers to His Second Coming), you may be glad also with exceeding joy. (There will be great joy in the heart of every Saint when we come back with the Lord at the Second Coming.)

“14 If you be reproached for the Name of Christ, happy are you (should have been translated, “since you are reproached”); for the Spirit of Glory and of God rests upon you (refers to the Holy Spirit): on their part He is evil spoken of, but on your part He is glorified. (This refers to the fact that the world, and even the apostate Church, reproaches this sacred influence of the Holy Spirit by their treatment of true Christians. But if we conduct ourselves correctly, the Lord is Glorified in our lives.)

15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men’s matters. (This Scripture plainly tells us that if the Christian doesn’t place His Faith entirely in the Cross, which guarantees the help of the Holy Spirit, these things Peter mentioned can definitely happen. That’s why it is imperative every Believer knows and understands the Message of the Cross.)”

“16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian (which sometimes happens for Righteousness’ sake), let him not be ashamed (such a one is not suffering because of lack of Faith, but rather because of his Faith); but let him glorify God on this behalf. (If we truly suffer for Righteousness’ sake, such suffering will always glorify the Lord. We should rejoice accordingly [Vs. 13].)

JUDGMENT

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the House of God (Judgment always begins with Believers, and pertains to their Faith, whether in the Cross or otherwise; the Cross alone is spared Judgment, for there Jesus was judged in our place): and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them who obey not the Gospel of God? (If God will Judge His Own, how much more will He Judge the unredeemed? The Cross alone stays the Judgment of God. Let that ever be understood.)”

“18 And if the Righteous scarcely be saved (can be saved only by trusting Christ and the Cross, and nothing else), where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? (If the great Sacrifice of Christ is rejected and spurned, where does that leave those who do such a thing? There is no hope for their Salvation.)

19 Wherefore let them who suffer according to the Will of God (it really doesn’t matter what we have to go through in order to live for God, the end result will be worth it a million times over) commit the keeping of their souls to Him in well doing (victory is assured if we continue to look to the Cross), as unto a Faithful Creator. (This means God hasn’t created an insufficient Salvation. He has created a Way through the Death of Christ that guarantees victory, if we will only follow that Way.)” 1 Peter 4:12-19

“12 Fight the good fight of Faith (in essence, the only fight we’re called upon to engage; every attack by Satan against the Believer, irrespective of its form, is to destroy or seriously weaken our Faith; he wants to push our Faith from the Cross to other things), lay hold on Eternal Life (we do such by understanding that all Life comes from Christ, and the means is the Cross), whereunto you are also Called (Called to follow Christ), and have professed a good profession before many witnesses. (This does not refer to a particular occasion, but to the entirety of his life for Christ.)” 1 Timothy 6:12

JSM

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

The Cross of Christ is as necessary for sanctification as it is for salvation (1 Cor. 1:18).

John 6:53 - "Except you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood (i.e., the Cross, i.e., The Finished Work), you have no life in you," (presents the demand that caused "many of His Disciples to go back, and walk no more with Him" (John 6:66). It does the same presently! This Verse tells us the degree of believing that is required; it refers to the Cross being the total Object of one's belief; failing that, there is no Life in you.)

John 6:66 - From that time many of His Disciples went back, and walk no more with Him.

Sanctifying peace allows the Holy Spirit to deliver the Believer into the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ so Christ life is manifested through the Believer and are, therefore, victorious (It is His life that brings victory). (2 Cor. 4:11, Gal. 2:20-21, Romans 8:2,13, John 14:21). I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me (Who Jesus Is), and gave himself for me (What Jesus Has Done on the Cross for us where the victory was won). Gal. 2:20

JSM

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

A sound heart is the life of the flesh: but envy the rottenness of the bones (Proverbs 14:30 KJV).
A peaceful heart leads to a healthy body; jealousy is like cancer in the bones (Proverbs 14:30 NLT).

 

[Guojing]

THE CONSECRATION OF THE SAINT

“12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he has is in your power; only upon himself put not forth your hand. So Satan went forth from the Presence of the LORD. (There were limitations placed on what Satan could do, as there are with all Believers. Concerning this, Williams says: “Job does not symbolize an unconverted, but a converted, man. It was necessary that one of God’s children should be chosen for this trial; for the subject of the Book is not the conversion of the sinner, but the consecration of the Saint. It is evident that an unconverted man needs to be brought to the end of himself; but that a man who feared God, who was perfect, and who hated evil should also need this is not so clear.

“We find in this Book that God uses Satan, calamity, and sickness to be His instruments in creating character and making men partakers of His Holiness. Such were the instruments; but the Hand that used them was God’s; and the facts of this Book explain to Christian people, who, like Job, are conscious of personal integrity, why calamities, sorrows, and diseases are permitted to afflict them.”)” Job 1:12

Seems Job is a very popular book used by people who believe that God use sickness to teach us lessons. Some comments on Job

1. Job is the oldest book in the Bible. It might be the oldest book in the world. It’s older than Genesis, though Genesis covers older material.
2. Job is set in the era of the patriarchs, but is in face an older book than Genesis. We know this because of the age of the Hebrew used. Languages evolve through time. Job was written in the time of the Patriarchs. Genesis was written, or compiled, by Moses, some 430+ years later!
3. Job had no covenant with God, no Abrahamic, no Mosaic, and most certainly no grace covenant that we have today. Thus, Job had no mediator between God and him and he certainly wished he had one. NASB quotes:“For [God] is not a man as I am that I may answer Him, that we may go to court together. There is no umpire between us, who may lay his hand upon us both.” – Job 9:32-33. We have Jesus as our mediator now, and he has wounded so that we can be healed.
4. Satan can no longer go to God in Heaven to accuse us before God. The place that he stood, at the time of Job, was legal because of Adam's sin. But when Jesus went to heaven after Crucifixion, he sprinkled that place with his own blood, rendering it holy. (Hebrews 9).

My conclusion? We had many things that Job wished he had, Jesus death on the cross changed the relationship between God and us. We can be confident that, under our grace covenant, God will not use Satan to create sickness in order to "build us" in any way.

 

[glf1]

I agree with what those scriptures disclose.
The person I was referring to did not die due to being handed over to Satan, he died due to his occupation, one he chose before turning 21 years old and while still in his Church he never left out from, he was over two different functions of it.
His occupation placed his life in the control and hands of those who order his steps, mistakes can happen and cost people dearly and those steps taken were by orders beyound the control of the one who carried them out. They are given by those far from the one taking them out or the one who ordered them to take them.
The one who was killed never lost his zeal or love of The Lord Jesus Christ or his Church.
The way and days ahead of the day he was killed laid far greater the devastation to his mind, heart and soul if he went into them, he would have never been able to have accepted it, it would have crushed him living with it and embedded into his memory.
I have seen the sickest out live the healthiest while, everyone thought the sickest was going to die and they did not, they lived another 22 years longer.
I think our hearts, minds and souls are of much greater the value of worth unto the Lord above all else, I think things can change in this world while somethings cannot. Mainly the Word of God cannot change.
Be it sickness, be it tragedy we all die in the flesh as appointed once unto us all, yet, we all do not have to die from a broken heart, mind and soul.
I think the Lord save us from that.

Amen! Each person born into the world is of more value than all of the precious metals and gems in the entire universe because of the Lord's great love for each of us.

 

[glf1]

I thought that was spiritual death, did I miss the point?

The point is that with the prayer of faith we are able to give those who haven't as yet suffered spiritual death, life!

Perhaps we should quit being Jonahs running away from the needs of the weak and rather bless sinners from among both the faithful and the lost with life as able ministers of the gospel having both the word and the ministry of reconciliation.

What does, "he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death," really mean?
Proof that the prayer will be answered, perhaps. Are we able to bless in job lots, like when; one shall rout a thousand and two ten thousand? But that doesn't answer what "life for them" is talking about.
Perhaps the Lord spares them with even more longsuffering as they suffer with a loss of faith. Or maybe the Lord puts an obstacle in their path to keep them away from a temptation that might defile their conscience if given in to.
Maybe if they ate the Lord's supper unworthily they'll not get sick? Or perhaps the Lord extends to them his forgiveness and is longsuffering once more without their having asked and their new covenant slate is wiped clean once again.
PTL!