Does 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 Teach Jesus Will Return With Dead Saints Now With Him In Heaven?

[Phoneman-777]

No, I think the whole idea of "soul sleep" is stupid. Rev 6:9,10 has John SEEING souls in heaven shouting. Jesus told us about real people talking to each other in Hades.

How can they be "real" people when Jesus told Solomon to tell us that the dead "know not anything" and He also told the Psalmists the dead go down "into silence"? You guys are so blind, you can't see that you're making a false dichotomy between Jesus and Jesus. Only way to harmonize Luke 16 with the rest of Scripture is to understand Jesus was speaking a parable, which Psalms 78:1-2 KJV predicted He would do

Nonsense. John wasn't talking symbolism when he recorded what he saw in heaven. You're just desperate for excuses to keep believing what you believe.

Y'know what else John saw in heaven? Jesus with a two edged sword sticking out of His mouth, fire shooting out His eye sockets, black feet, and a hand several bazillion miles wide holding the Sun, Betelgeuse, Orion, etc. Yep, no symbolism there, right?

So please QUIT talking about God tormenting anyone. That's just a red herring.

Immortal Soul crowd claims God will keep the fire burning eternally, prevent the wicked from burning out of existence, but somehow He's not responsible for their torment?

 

[Phoneman-777]

God breathed into the body the soul.

Look, He didn't ""breathe the soul" into anything, got it? If you tell me what your native tongue is, I'll be happy to repeat this that way, b/c there's no way English is your first language. It says He breathed his BREATH OF LIFE into the NOSTRILS of the man, and the result of that action was that the dead body became a living soul, got it? The Living Soul came into existence as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, and at death when the Breath returns to God exactly as it was when It initially went forth, and the Body returns to the dust, the Living Soul CEASES TO EXIST.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Again, you simply fail to distinguish or discern the difference between soul and body.

No, I been telling people for years the difference, but the Immortal Soul crowd refuses to accept the plain Word of God.

The Soul is the whole comprised of its two parts, the Body and the Breath of Life. Proof? Lay aside the fairytales of lying pulpit prophets and open a Bible to Genesis 2:7 KJV and you'll find it says just that.

 

[Phoneman-777]

I would never argue against obedience, but from how you worded it, you made clear that he viewed keeping the law as required for salvation. Go back and re-read what you wrote.

I know what I wrote and I neither said or implied anythign like that. But, I'm not surprised at your conclusion, seeing you've well demonstrated you're incapable of separating fact from fiction, literalism from symbolism.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; BUT THOU SHALT FOLLOW ME AFTERWARDS but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

Common sense - Jesus is going to heaven, they can't go UNTIL after Christ has destroyed the power of death and they first die, and then they can follow.

That's so true! Apart from a few exceptions such as Moses, Enoch, and Elijah, the vast majority of the saints ain't marching in until we assemble "in that number" and march in together.

 

[Phoneman-777]

The anointed of Jesus, is his bride = the little flock( Luke 12:32)-these are numbered at Rev 14:3-144,000--these get part in the first resurrection. Rev 20:6) the remaining ones of that little flock on earth go to heaven during the tribulation.

Since the dead and living saints are raptured at the Second Coming, there can't be seven more minutes let alone seven more years, because when Jesus comes "as a thief in the night", Peter says He's setting the atmosphere on fire, destroying the elements, and pretty much leaving everything down here all DEAD (2 Peter 3:10 KJV).

 

[BroTan]

Remember that Jesus said in Matthew 24: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. There more details going on in this event we need to read about. Understand that Jesus is coming back to deal with enemies.

Now let's continue from Matthew 24:29 when Jesus talks about the stars, and moon, etc. Because all this is going to happen Immediately after the tribulation of those days.

Lets go into Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? When a person ask for the rocks to fall on them they know they report card is not good at all. But maybe some of them could of ask for mercy, or repented, like that thief on the cross.

Let’s go and take a look at the company the Lord will have with at his second coming. Let’s go into 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

If you sleep in Jesus it means you have done his will.

Let's keep reading and see how Jesus bring the saints with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This verse just told us that some will be alive to be in this first resurrection, the coming of Jesus, and there are those who will be asleep. Notice they asleep and not in heaven chilling and watching over people, smiling at all this hell going on.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Notice: Only the dead in Christ will rise first, but the Lord has descended...meaning coming down

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Notice those that were asleep or dead rise first, then those which are alive and remain rise next, to meet the Lord in the air, and altogether we come up in the first resurrection.

Paul also said in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

So let's see where Paul got this from.

Let's go into Zechariah 14: 1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Look, I don't care how much you seem to want to argue with Scripture.

I don't, I just want to dispel the myths of Immortal Soul doctrine, the success of which is guaranteed as long as one reads the Bible with his eyes open.

Regarding the 10 horned 7 headed beast, since there isn't anything literal about that, is obviously a symbol. But "souls"? What in the world would that be a symbol of?

Yes, there's no such thing as disembodied souls, and if you understood the plain English of Genesis 2:7 KJV, you'd see that the Soul comes into existence ONLY AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THE UNION of the Body and the Breath of Life, and at death when the disunion of the same occurs, the Breath returns to God, the Body to the dust, and the Living Soul CEASES TO BE. Can you see now how a disembodied soul is just as absurd as a 7 headed, 10 horned beast?

And Jesus gave us a clear glimpse of life in the after life. Figure that out. And it isn't a parable. Or show me any parable where Jesus named some of the people, and REAL people no less.

Pretty sure I showed you already that Jesus told Jotham to tell us that trees walk, talk, and make horrible life choices, so we have precedent for Him using impossible circumstances as life impactful object lessons.

And where are any parables where Jesus named real people?

Subjective imposition of hermeneutic law where none exists only serves to show how weak the Immortal Soul argument is: the testimony of Solomon, Job, the Psalms, David, Paul, Jesus, etc., disallows for this lie of Satan, which leaves only one explanation for why Jesus called the beggar "Lazarus"...because Jesus knew not long after, He'd raise His friend properly named "Lazarus" back to life, which afterward would see the fulfillment of "Abraham's sons" not only refusing to believe, but leaving the cemetery for a secret place to plot how to KILL both Jesus and Lazarus.

No, we don't have people wth "resurrection bodies". You just keep misunderstanding Scripture.

The Bible only speaks of two kinds of bodies: the "earthly house" and the "tabernacle...eternal in the heavens", OK? Abraham, the Rich Man, and Lazarus are all dead, which means the "earthly house" of these three returned to dust...however, in the parable all three have bodies - which can only mean their resurrection bodies which are "eternal in the heavens". And, since there's still opportunity to warn the Rich Man's five brothers, it is clear the Resurrection of the Just hadn't taken place yet, despite these three having bodies! Therefore, it must be a parable.

Some scholars have surmised that there is some kind of "interim body" for people who die and go to heaven.

Yes, I can see where scholars who are predisposed to the lie of Immortal Soul doctrine (and who can blame them what with so many choosing to believe the Serpent instead of God, right?) might try to conjecture an "interim body" but the objective scholar will see right their in the heart of 2 Corinthians 5 the "naked" and "unclothed" state of the dead: when they lie in the grave without a body in a state of nonexistence until God once again reunites His Breath with the Body He provides them.

Are you going to ignore post #814?

Something tells me I already addressed whatever is in there, but your shut eyes, closed ears, and stubborn character prevented you from reading my response.

I believe Phil 1:21, 23 prove that souls go immediately to heaven at death.

After every long work day, I have a desire to depart from the job site and be in my nice shower at home...however, I must still fight the rush hour traffic. Paul desired to depart from his earthly body down here and go be with Jesus in his resrrection body up there, but he himself knew that would not happen at death - but "at the last trump".

You can't prove me wrong from Scripture. Or you would have by now.

Bro, all I do is shred your false belief, and though we're told most are going in the "broad way to destruction", there's a few who are reading and saying, "Wow, I've never looked at it that way before" and abandoning this nonsense. They will be armed with the knowledge and ability to disprove Spiritualism which is so lacking among the Immortal Soul crowd - and this lack will leave them deceived, overcome, and destroyed by the enemy (Hosea 4:6 KJV)

 

[Phoneman-777]

Jesus was sent only unto the Jews, Jesus was then asked by his Jewish Disciples when these things shall be (Temples Destruction Matt. 24:1-3) what would be the signs of his coming, and the end of the world [age of man].

So, Jesus needs to explain all of these things to his Disciples, he also needs to keep the Rapture hush hush so as not to confuse Israel as a nation because he knows Israel as a nation will not repent until the 70th week and thus overall, this message of the Rapture is not about Israel, who Jesus' Ministry was unto, ONLY. So, in a totally majestic way, Jesus gives them EVERY POSSIBLE ANSWER, but he gives it in a mostly Jewish way whereas he designates what is going to happen to Israel FIRST, then he also throws in a Side Report of sorts, speaking about the coming Pre Trib Rapture in Matt. 24:36-51 AFTER having given the parable of the Fig Tree, which shows us we can know the SEASON, even though we cant know the Day nor the Hour of his coming, in Matt. 24:32-35,THEN we get the signs of what will be the rapture, after he gave the signs of what the Jews will see at the Second Coming, in other words Jesus covered all the bases unto his Disciples and the Jews, both those who are in Christ Pre Tib (Dead and living) and to those who repent during the 70th week tribulation period, so Jesus in Matt. 24:4-31 covers all of the Jewish bases on those who are here on earth during the 70th week troubles,

The 70 Weeks ended 490 years after they began. The Jews got nuthin to do with any fulfillment of end times prophecy

"All the promises to the fathers are Yea and are Amen in Christ Jesus".

 

[kleronomos]

That's so true! Apart from a few exceptions such as Moses, Enoch, and Elijah, the vast majority of the saints ain't marching in until we assemble "in that number" and march in together.

John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.


Can peter go where Christ is going? Yes, he is going to follow AND since there will be no LAST DAY for 2000 years
WE KNOW FOR SURE THAT HE followed IMMEDIATELY UPON DEATH OF HIS FLESH OR ELSE ALL THIS WOULD BE A LIE.
Peter wouldn't have 'followed Him' if he stayed in a grave waiting for His return


37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow Thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.

Wants to follow Him right then WILLING TO DIE TO DO IT. No waiting for a return is even mentioned.

38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in Me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I goto prepare a place for you.

Both Jesus and Peter have work to do before they Go to where the Father is.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

IT IS GONNA BE HEAVEN!! Prepare for him, come to him receive him and they are together and Christ is in heaven

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

WHERE IS HE GOING?

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

He is going to the Father. He will bring US TO THE FATHER.

What do we immediately notice?

Nothing about 'a last day'.
Nothing about coming to earth at.
Nothing about a group.
Nothing about hades/hell/the grave
Nothing about sleeping
Nothing about a world resurrection
Nothing but Christ goes to God comes to get Peter and takes him there

HOW and WHEN DO WE GO BACK TO EARTH?

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

 

[Rondonmon]

Those are for the Jews, not the church. Remember the church separates itself from the Jews because the Jews have to stay SO FOR the church to turn around and use the holidays of those they separate themselves from is quite a leap of faith, way to big a leap for me. We do know the tares are gathered and burned before the wheat is gathered.

Yes, but he had a whole other section from I think 8-12 that was repeated for the Jews/Israel alone, I just shortened it up to where it was only about the Church, since that is what we will face, even if we are Jewish(I am a Gentile) and saved before the Pre Trib Rapture.

Here's the catch, no many get this, we actually do not separate from the Jews, it just "SEEMS" tat way. Only 2 Billion out of 8 Billion on this earth are Christians, and only 50 percent will be Raptured/make the Wedding by being chaste and faithful unto the Lord. So, that is roughly 12.5 percent of the world that makes it to Heaven, some will be Jews, I don't know what percent, then the Dead may not have been that high, or it may be a little higher, but the road is narrow. Not many chose the right path over all. BUT....both Gentiles AND Jews who came unto Christ by FAITH ALONE, will be Raptured or Raised from the Dead and Raptured, pre Trib., LIKEWISE, those who come unto Christ after the Rapture will also have to meet the exact same requirements, they must come by FAITH ALONE, Faith was Abrahams Righteousness, it is our righteousness, and it will also be the 70th week saints who repents righteousness, Jesus is not just going to show up and save Israel like many people think, they MUST REPENT, before God's Wrath starts, Zechariah 13:8-9 shows us that 1/3 of Israel (3-5 million Jews) Repent just before the DOTL (Zechariah 14:1-2).

Likewise, the Gentiles who repent during the 70th week will also have tp com e unto Christ Jesus by FAITH ALONE, then they being not protected by God will most likely be killed. Even though the Anti-Christ will only rule the Mediterranean Sea Region and Europe, the whole worlds mindset will be likewise see it with COVID 19 they are all Demon possessed shills for Satan. They all think alike, look at the Ivy League, supporting a MAN racing in a Swim Meet as a Woman, no one is actually that goofy, they are demon possessed fool for Satan.

So, we really are no different, Jew nor Gentile, we are all the sane in God's eyes, that is what Paul was sayin in Galatians chapter 3, HEY Galatians, STOP trying to be like the Jews to make it to Heaven (by serving the Laws of Moses), who has BEWITCHE YOU? Then he says the Law cam 430 years after the Promise !! And thus God sees no difference in the Jews who come unto Jesus by FAITH ALONE, both before the Rapture and after the Rapture, He only protects the Jews during the 70th week in order to keep His Promise unto Abraham of an everlasting seed on this earth. Thus, ALL Israel is saved, not every Jew, but Israel as a nation.

So, there will be Jews and Gentiles Raptured, and there will be Jews and Gentiles who come unto Christ by Faith during the 70th week. So, as Paul says in Gal. 3, there is NO DIFFERENCE.

 

[TMS]

John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.


Can peter go where Christ is going? Yes, he is going to follow AND since there will be no LAST DAY for 2000 years
WE KNOW FOR SURE THAT HE followed IMMEDIATELY UPON DEATH OF HIS FLESH OR ELSE ALL THIS WOULD BE A LIE.
Peter wouldn't have 'followed Him' if he stayed in a grave waiting for His return

Follow me afterwards = 2 years or 2000 years is afterwards. Heaven is the promised destination and if Jesus comes and resurrects Petter to take him to heaven (but thou shalt follow me afterwards) it is the promised fulfilled.

"WE KNOW FOR SURE THAT HE followed IMMEDIATELY UPON DEATH OF HIS FLESH OR ELSE ALL THIS WOULD BE A LIE." How do you know this no proof was given.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus is the way to heaven and all the saved will be with Jesus in Heaven but that does not prove that people go to heaven immediatly.

The sleeping saints will be woken by Jesus at His coming.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

 

[TMS]

This is interesting.

 

[Phoneman-777]

WE KNOW FOR SURE THAT HE followed IMMEDIATELY UPON DEATH OF HIS FLESH OR ELSE ALL THIS WOULD BE A LIE.

Instead of loose interpretation and conjecture, let's look at something else:

QUESTION: Which of the following did Paul say in 1 Corinthians?

(A)​

15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.​

15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ (like Peter) are perished.​

​

(B)​

15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is in vain; ye are yet in your sins.​

15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are up in heaven as disembodied saints with a disembodied Christ because if the dead rise not, WHO CARES??? We all go straight to heaven regardless of whether we rise or not.​

​

Paul plainly says before Peter can go to heaven he must first be resurrected, because if he's not resurrected, HE IS PERISHED, right or wrong?

 

[Rondonmon]

Remember that Jesus said in Matthew 24: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. There more details going on in this event we need to read about. Understand that Jesus is coming back to deal with enemies.

Now let's continue from Matthew 24:29 when Jesus talks about the stars, and moon, etc. Because all this is going to happen Immediately after the tribulation of those days.

Lets go into Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? When a person ask for the rocks to fall on them they know they report card is not good at all. But maybe some of them could of ask for mercy, or repented, like that thief on the cross.

Let’s go and take a look at the company the Lord will have with at his second coming. Let’s go into 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

If you sleep in Jesus it means you have done his will.

Let's keep reading and see how Jesus bring the saints with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This verse just told us that some will be alive to be in this first resurrection, the coming of Jesus, and there are those who will be asleep. Notice they asleep and not in heaven chilling and watching over people, smiling at all this hell going on.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Notice: Only the dead in Christ will rise first, but the Lord has descended...meaning coming down

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Notice those that were asleep or dead rise first, then those which are alive and remain rise next, to meet the Lord in the air, and altogether we come up in the first resurrection.

Paul also said in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

So let's see where Paul got this from.

Let's go into Zechariah 14: 1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

You bring all the relevant points together here, but one thing is left amiss. Some people do not understand that IMMEDIATLY after the Tribulation of those days means after God's 1260 days of Judgment which only BEGINS with the Day of the Lord (Sun and Moon event), but WHICH ENDS, with the 7th Vial. This Jesus shows up at the 7th Vial and ENDS God's Wrath by speaking victory.

I wouldn't even look at the Seals at all, they are not actionable in any way, the Seals are Jesus opening up a Sealed Scroll of COMING Judgments, which can only be brought to pass after all 7 have been opened, that is why the 7th Seal is over in Rev. 8, and thus after it is opened there is ten silence in Heaven, and the Angels can be seen readying the Trumpet Judgments, we also see the Angels readying the Vial Judgments, but not the "SEAL JUDGMENTS" because they do not actually exist !! Jesus, as he opens each seal is Prophesying what is about to befall mankind after the 7th Seal is finally opened.

Think of it as a Closet with 7 Locks on it, you have been given gifts, your friends come over, as you open ach lock you describe the contents behind the door to your friends, as you open lock #1 you tell them about the Guitar, as you open lock #2 you tell them about the Gold Leaf Bible, as you open the 6th lock you tell your friends about this nice box of chocolates..............QUESTION? Has anyone seen anything in the closet yet? No, of course not, there is still ONE MORE LOCK on the closet door, that is how the 7 Seal Scroll works with Jesus !! The Seals are PROPHETIC UTERRINGS of soon to come events !! THINK NOW, if you opened the 7th lock would you say anything, or simply just open the door and show your friends the gifts behind the door? Talking time is OVER !!

Seal's 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 ALL describe the Anti-Christs 42 month rule of terror, WATCH:

1. The Anti-Christ (White Horse) Conquers and rules for 42 months.
2. He takes away his original fake peace agreements by bringing Wars for 42 months (Red Horse).
3. His Wars bring Famine as all wars do, he makes people worship him in order to buy and sell (Black Horse)
4. The Anti-Christ/Beasts/Tyrants 42 month rule will bring sickness/death and the Grave. (Pale Green Horse)

5.) Jesus foretells of his evil tyrant coming 42 month rule which will kill the Gentile Saints who come unto Christ during the 70th week, Jesus thus tells them they MUST WAIT until this man has killed all of their brothers in like manner, God Himself protects Israel in order to fulfill His promise unto Abraham. In Rev. 20:4 they are the raised and judged, and lie with Jesus on this earth for 1000 years. THEY ALONE do this, their judgment is after the 2nd Coming.

The Six Seal however describes the soon to come Day of the Lord.

6.) Now, Jesus foretells of God's SOON TO COME Wrath, he foretells about the coming Day of the Lord Events. They do not happen here, Jesus is prophesying what will come to pass in mere days, AFTER he finally opens the 7th Seal or the 7th Lock on the ole Closet Door !! Jesus will say nothing, Judgment is now at hand !!

7.) Jesus opens the 7th Door and there is SILENCE in heaven, the Trumpet Judgments are readied by the 7 Angels. The first four Trumps begins the Day of the Lord, ALL FOUR are the exact same event, an Asteroid crashing into the Sea somewhere, my guess is in the Pacific Realm.

NOTICE: The Fire comes in first (Trump #1), just before the impact. Then in Trump #2 we get THE IMPACT into the Sea. In Trumpet #3, we are shown the exact same impact, but Gid retells it as coming in hot/on fire, as a "Star" or burning asteroid, because Gd is EMPHASIZING the fact tat when this thing blows up its going to poison (WORMWOOD) 1/3 of the earths fresh waters. I personally think the 1/3 in each judgment is a dead give away as per to the LOCATION, you see the Pacific Ocea has 1/3 of all the water on this earth, nd oceans can not cross each other because they have a different weight of some kind, its weird but true. Then when we add up North and South America, it has 1/3 of the Landmass of the the earth. I thig the 1/3 is God telling us where this Asteroid is going to hit !!

Then the BIG coup de gras !! The Fourth Trump does what in Rev. 8 ? It turns the earth dark by 1/3 via the Sun, Moon and Stars not giving their full light. That simply means the smoke from the Asteroid Impact and the 1/3 of the earths burning trees get up into the jet stream and starts blocking the suns light somewhat, THUS the first four Trumps are ONE Asteroid Impact, and it FULFILLS the 6th Seal Prophecy by Jesus which is also the Joel 2:31 Prophecy being fulfilled !!

 

[Phoneman-777]

You bring all the relevant points together here, but one thing is left amiss. Some people do not understand that IMMEDIATLY after the Tribulation of those days means after God's 1260 days of Judgment which only BEGINS with the Day of the Lord (Sun and Moon event), but WHICH ENDS, with the 7th Vial. This Jesus shows up at the 7th Vial and ENDS God's Wrath by speaking victory.

I wouldn't even look at the Seals at all, they are not actionable in any way, the Seals are Jesus opening up a Sealed Scroll of COMING Judgments, which can only be brought to pass after all 7 have been opened, that is why the 7th Seal is over in Rev. 8, and thus after it is opened there is ten silence in Heaven, and the Angels can be seen readying the Trumpet Judgments, we also see the Angels readying the Vial Judgments, but not the "SEAL JUDGMENTS" because they do not actually exist !! Jesus, as he opens each seal is Prophesying what is about to befall mankind after the 7th Seal is finally opened.

Think of it as a Closet with 7 Locks on it, you have been given gifts, your friends come over, as you open ach lock you describe the contents behind the door to your friends, as you open lock #1 you tell them about the Guitar, as you open lock #2 you tell them about the Gold Leaf Bible, as you open the 6th lock you tell your friends about this nice box of chocolates..............QUESTION? Has anyone seen anything in the closet yet? No, of course not, there is still ONE MORE LOCK on the closet door, that is how the 7 Seal Scroll works with Jesus !! The Seals are PROPHETIC UTERRINGS of soon to come events !! THINK NOW, if you opened the 7th lock would you say anything, or simply just open the door and show your friends the gifts behind the door? Talking time is OVER !!

Seal's 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 ALL describe the Anti-Christs 42 month rule of terror, WATCH:

1. The Anti-Christ (White Horse) Conquers and rules for 42 months.
2. He takes away his original fake peace agreements by bringing Wars for 42 months (Red Horse).
3. His Wars bring Famine as all wars do, he makes people worship him in order to buy and sell (Black Horse)
4. The Anti-Christ/Beasts/Tyrants 42 month rule will bring sickness/death and the Grave. (Pale Green Horse)

5.) Jesus foretells of his evil tyrant coming 42 month rule which will kill the Gentile Saints who come unto Christ during the 70th week, Jesus thus tells them they MUST WAIT until this man has killed all of their brothers in like manner, God Himself protects Israel in order to fulfill His promise unto Abraham. In Rev. 20:4 they are the raised and judged, and lie with Jesus on this earth for 1000 years. THEY ALONE do this, their judgment is after the 2nd Coming.

The Six Seal however describes the soon to come Day of the Lord.

6.) Now, Jesus foretells of God's SOON TO COME Wrath, he foretells about the coming Day of the Lord Events. They do not happen here, Jesus is prophesying what will come to pass in mere days, AFTER he finally opens the 7th Seal or the 7th Lock on the ole Closet Door !! Jesus will say nothing, Judgment is now at hand !!

7.) Jesus opens the 7th Door and there is SILENCE in heaven, the Trumpet Judgments are readied by the 7 Angels. The first four Trumps begins the Day of the Lord, ALL FOUR are the exact same event, an Asteroid crashing into the Sea somewhere, my guess is in the Pacific Realm.

NOTICE: The Fire comes in first (Trump #1), just before the impact. Then in Trump #2 we get THE IMPACT into the Sea. In Trumpet #3, we are shown the exact same impact, but Gid retells it as coming in hot/on fire, as a "Star" or burning asteroid, because Gd is EMPHASIZING the fact tat when this thing blows up its going to poison (WORMWOOD) 1/3 of the earths fresh waters. I personally think the 1/3 in each judgment is a dead give away as per to the LOCATION, you see the Pacific Ocea has 1/3 of all the water on this earth, nd oceans can not cross each other because they have a different weight of some kind, its weird but true. Then when we add up North and South America, it has 1/3 of the Landmass of the the earth. I thig the 1/3 is God telling us where this Asteroid is going to hit !!

Then the BIG coup de gras !! The Fourth Trump does what in Rev. 8 ? It turns the earth dark by 1/3 via the Sun, Moon and Stars not giving their full light. That simply means the smoke from the Asteroid Impact and the 1/3 of the earths burning trees get up into the jet stream and starts blocking the suns light somewhat, THUS the first four Trumps are ONE Asteroid Impact, and it FULFILLS the 6th Seal Prophecy by Jesus which is also the Joel 2:31 Prophecy being fulfilled !!

I believe the Earthquake, the Dark Day, Blood Moon, Falling Stars all occurred in history - the prophetic timeline of Daniel and Revelation puts these events around the end of the 2,300 Days prophecy (457 B.C. - 1844 A.D.) when "the sanctuary shall be cleansed". This antitypical "Day of Atonement" in 1844 was to be preceded by the antitypical "Feast of Trumpets" announcing its soon arrival. The key to understanding prophecy has always included examining the OT.

Lisbon Earthquake: 1755
Dark Day: 1780
Blood Moon: 1780
Falling Stars 1833

Soon after 1833, 1844 took place, the time when Christ would move from the first apartment to the second in the heavenly sanctuary and begin the final phase of His ministry: the Judgment.

 

[Rondonmon]

I believe the Earthquake, the Dark Day, Blood Moon, Falling Stars all occurred in history - the prophetic timeline of Daniel and Revelation puts these events around the end of the 2,300 Days prophecy (457 B.C. - 1844 A.D.) when "the sanctuary shall be cleansed". This antitypical "Day of Atonement" in 1844 was to be preceded by the antitypical "Feast of Trumpets" announcing its soon arrival. The key to understanding prophecy has always included examining the OT.

Lisbon Earthquake: 1755
Dark Day: 1780
Blood Moon: 1780
Falling Stars 1833

Soon after 1833, 1844 took place, the time when Christ would move from the first apartment to the second in the heavenly sanctuary and begin the final phase of His ministry: the Judgment.

You are not being told this by the holy spirit, remember when I told you the exact reason you couldn't ever admit the 2300 days is actually 1150 days with 2300 sacrifices being taken away? Because I have known these wrong teaching before you even became a Christian, I imagine. So, this didn't come from you, or God, it came from a MAN, stuff I saw and discounted long, long ago.

Until you learn CORRECTION from God is a good thing, it means God cares about you and wants you to know Him, yo will never get it brother. Its like me at 3 telling my dat, hey pops, little jimmy joe told me 2 + 2 = 3, then not hearing my daddy say, no its 4 !! God's will quit trying to correct us when we quit heeding His voice.

I now its had t learn you have been duped, but that life, I had to learn how to hear the difference between the Spirit and the Liar named Satan, we all do, the bible always matches what the Spirit says, if you have to fudge things to get a FIT, Satan is involved.

 

[FreeGrace2]

All are dead who have died except the anointed who were taken in the first resurrection.

There is only 1 resurrection for the saved. 1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

So Rev 20:5 PROVES that this single resurrection occurs when King Jesus returns at the end of the Tribulation.

Only the little flock goes in the first resurrection. They are numbered-144,000 Rev 14:3- Jesus will not have billions sitting on thrones beside him helping to judge.

Your calculations are rather misguided.

All believers are resurrected/raptured at the same event. I just showed you.

 

[Tman]

By definition a chiasm repeats the previous verses only in reverse order doesn't it? For 1 Thessalonians 4:14 to be a chiasm the verses would have to appear as ABBA. Is that correct?

You are counting on him understanding what a chaism is

 

[FreeGrace2]

The scroll of life wouldnt need to be opened unless both parties were in that ressurection.

No, it's opened to emphasize to the attendees WHY they are going to be cast into the LoF.

If believers are at this judgment, why would King Jesus make believers wait until AFTER the 1,000 year reign, when they will be regining with Him? How does that make any sense.

The Bema (2 Cor 5:10) occurs when King Jesus returns at the Second Advent. All believers will be given their reward, or not (1 Cor 3:14,15) and then rule with Him.

Your statement is based upon your opinion of why the book of life will be at the GWT judgment.

But I've shown from Scripture why that cannot be true. The Bema obviously occurs at the beginning of the Millennial reigh.