Doctrines like Limited Atonement - why?
- Thread starter LeeLoving
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Psalms 14:2-3 shows us that all mankind were depraved. God who knows the end from the beginning and he saw this by his foreknowledge before he formed the earth. That is why it was necessary for God to choose an elect people, out of those that were totally depraved, and provide for his Son to atone for their sins, which was, indeed, a limited atonement for his elect only. God did not choose that some of mankind would go to hell, they choose that themselves by God giving them a free will to choose how they wanted to live their lives here on earth. Had God not chosen an elect people from that depraved world, we would have all gone to hell.
Scripture proves scripture, without referring to other men's interpretations of them, and they must all harmonize in order to understand the truths in the doctrine of Jesus Christ, and should be our only source of gleaning the truths within them.
Scripture proves scripture, without referring to other men's interpretations of them, and they must all harmonize in order to understand the truths in the doctrine of Jesus Christ, and should be our only source of gleaning the truths within them.
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Just because we have been born again of the Holy Spirit, doesn't negate the fact that we still carry the baggage of our fleshly nature with us, as explained by Paul's struggles in Romans 7:18-25. After we have been born again, our choices are influenced either by the flesh or by the Spirit, and many times, as for myself, I am afraid that my fleshly nature wins out. There is a saying that I have heard about the earlier native Indians saying; There is a white dog and a black dog within them that fight against one another, and the one that wins, is the one that they feed the most.
I have noticed that you make a lot of statements about your private understandings, and hardly ever back them up with scripture. If I am understanding you right, you are asserting that God puts the Holy Spirit within a select few in the old testament, and the other Old testament Saints and Profits just have Spiritual knowledge without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit within them to reveal spiritual things to them. So, are you saying that most of the old testament Saints and prophets still have the stony heart within them, (Ezk 36:26), as the natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14, that cannot understand the things of the Spirit?
That's Augustine in a nutshell. And the belief in it is based on a handful of proof texts based mostly on treating Romans not like the occasional letter it is but a theological treatise. There's no reason to believe that when the choice was continually laid before the Israelites that God was implying they had no ability to choose for themselves.
According to John 3, when can a man be born again? Jesus answers this question. Those OT saints were not born again. They were not part of the body of Christ. There was no body to be made a part of yet. You’re trying to compare apples and oranges, those under the OT with those under the blood of Jesus.
It is not wise to not compare scripture to scripture to glean the truth. All scriptures must harmonize in order to understand the doctrine that Jesus taught, both the old testament scriptures and the new testament. You have probably been indoctrinated by listening to other men's interpretations of the scriptures instead of using only the inspired scriptures that will prove themselves if compared to each other with harmony.
John 3 has grossly been misinterpreted by misguided children of God, who have been falsely taught that mankind has to have a part in his eternal deliverance, such as; accepting Jesus's crucifixion, believing, repenting, etc. 1 Cor 2:14 says that the natural man can only discern natural things and cannot discern the things of the Spirit, he thinks spiritual things are foolishness, until he has been born again by the indwelling of the Spirit, as explained in Eph 2. The natural man is spiritually dead and God brings him to be spiritually alive by putung within him the Holy Spirit. Then after he has been spiritually Born he is able to accept, believe, repent, etc. In this manner of being born again, God gets all of the credit and man gets no credit for his eternal salvation. Scripture must prove scripture.
The council of Ephesus didn't condemn free will, it condemned what Pelagius was being represented to say. Which is that we on our own merits could achieve salvation apart from God. That is patently unBiblical, but it does not entail going to the opposite extreme and declaring that Adam managed to completely destroy God's image in us.