Doctrine of Unconditional Election

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brightfame52

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cv5

God is willing to save all men yet all men are not willing to be saved. Very sad.
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Friend that's not true ! What God wills, desires He does it, performs it Job 23:10

13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

So the all men must be distinct to the elect in their different sorts and classes and ethnicities.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

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Grandpa said:
John 10:26-29
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
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No word for the chosen elect...wrong passage to deal about the election or choosing. need to try another verse.. Thanks
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

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brightfame52 said:
Because they were saved based upon the death of Christ in the first place. In other words, God saved His elect in all generations based upon what Christ would come and do in time. As far as God was concerned, in His Eternal Perspective of things, Christ was slain for the sins of the elect from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

So thats why it was necessary for Christ to come and die, many had been saved based upon His death for them, on credit that He would come and pay their debt.[/QUOT
This is on the other thread, an off-topic or you have already been mixed up. Your given passage has something to do with foreodination or predestination.
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fredoheaven

fredoheaven

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brightfame52 said:
If by Grace then by Election !

If Salvation is by Grace, which it is, then its by Election, for you cant have one without the other. Paul writes, in speaking about election in the 11th of Romans these words Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Paul is writing about Salvation amongst the jews, though it applies to all men, that some jews will be saved because they are part of Gods election of grace, and if you add to that, then it disqualifies as being by grace.

Also for it, Salvation, to be by Grace, it can and does only apply to a remnant, as here in this context it applies to only a remnant of jews out of national Israel, but it also must apply to only a remnant out of the gentiles as Per Acts 15:14-1722

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Notice Vs 14, God visits the Gentiles only to take out of them a People for Salvation, that's the remnant out from among the gentile nations, an election of grace.

The word take is the greek word
lambanó and means to:

I receive, get, (b) I take, lay hold of.

to take, equivalent to to choose, select:

That's Election, to select from the whole, to choose from the whole, that's a remnant !

Just like the High Priest was taken or selected to choose out from amongst men Heb 5:1

For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:

Also those so chosen, chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4, are in time layed hold of by God in Christ

Remember Paul said of himself how Christ laid hold of him Phil 3:12

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

That word apprehended, its the same word and can be read:

I was laid hold of !

The remnant, whether of from amongst the jews, or the gentiles will be laid hold of by Christ in time, and its all of Grace, the Election of Grace, which equates to Salvation by Grace. If we deny Particular discriminating Grace in Salvation applied only to a remnant, not all without exception, then by default we deny Salvation by Grace !
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This is a rehash somewhere. Romans 11 are to the Jews.
 
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brightfame52

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fredoheaven said:
This is a rehash somewhere. Romans 11 are to the Jews.
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No its not exclusively to jews. Salvation by Grace is for people of all ethnicities, if it was only for jews, that would be respect of persons, salvation wouldny be about grace but about race, God forbid.
 
J

Justified

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cv5 said:
"How does that work?"

Clearly you have no idea. And frankly neither do I. Paradox resolution occurs in higher dimensional space. That space we are not privy to this present moment, therefore we do not understand.

For our part we need to accept these statements on faith and nothing more. The precise nature of the interaction of man's will and God's will is completely unknowable......trying to do so is folly.

God is willing to save all men yet all men are not willing to be saved. Very sad.
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Why would I not know how it works. The bible is clear that we have a free will that God has given us. We can use that free will to either accept Christ Jesus or reject Him. That is not hard to understand as long as you read the bible and do not try to read into the bible as some have done.
The verses that you quoted show free will but you are unable or unwilling to see that as it does not fit your theological view.
Since your theology does not fit with the bible then it is time for you to change your theological view.
 
cv5

cv5

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Justified said:
Why would I not know how it works. The bible is clear that we have a free will that God has given us. We can use that free will to either accept Christ Jesus or reject Him. That is not hard to understand as long as you read the bible and do not try to read into the bible as some have done.
The verses that you quoted show free will but you are unable or unwilling to see that as it does not fit your theological view.
Since your theology does not fit with the bible then it is time for you to change your theological view.
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"God is willing to save all men yet all men are not willing to be saved. Very sad."
 
cv5

cv5

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brightfame52 said:
cv5



Friend that's not true ! What God wills, desires He does it, performs it Job 23:10

13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

So the all men must be distinct to the elect in their different sorts and classes and ethnicities.
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Judas was not willing to be saved. Jesus did not reign in his heart. Judas did his own will and the will of Satan.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

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brightfame52 said:
No its not exclusively to jews. Salvation by Grace is for people of all ethnicities, if it was only for jews, that would be respect of persons, salvation wouldny be about grace but about race, God forbid.
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Thanks, are you now saying that the grace of God appears to all men?
 
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rayzor

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sound diff, meaning the same.Synonyms in a way.Though one is an idiom and the other a parable.
 
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brightfame52

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cv5 said:
Judas was not willing to be saved. Jesus did not reign in his heart. Judas did his own will and the will of Satan.
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Im not even going to debate you about that, I believe I gave you sufficient scripture !
 
cv5

cv5

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brightfame52 said:
Im not even going to debate you about that, I believe I gave you sufficient scripture !
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Oh I definitely agree that Judas was prophesied to do what he did. Also completely believe the doctrine of total inability.
 
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Grandpa

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Justified said:
So if the benefits of Christ Jesus is only for believers then why was it necessary for Him to do anything since they were already saved.
His death and resurrection was of no valve to them as it was the lost that Christ Jesus came to save.

Your theology needs a serious rethink.
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The Lord Jesus doesn't save unbelievers. Only believers.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 
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Grandpa

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FreeGrace2 said:
Prove it with Scripture. Oh, wait. You can't. The Bible teaches that Christ died for everyone, as I have already proven,
Christ removes the "sin barrier" for believers only.

This is true has has NOTHING to do with who He died for.
The benefits for everything Christ has done is for believers.

I have to wonder why you quote verses that have nothing to do with unlimited atonement.
1 Corinthians 1:30-31
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
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The scriptures show the benefits for those who are in Christ.

These benefits are not given to everyone. Only those in Christ.


This is kindergarten sunday school stuff. Did you go to sunday school as a kid?
 
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justpassinthrough

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Oct 31, 2015
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cv5 said:
The elect of this Church age already have it.
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Sorry bro, the elect refers to the Jews in the verse I quoted.



Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10


  • the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation


Paul is commenting that the elect also need salvation.




JPT
 
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