Doctrine of Unconditional Election

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rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Duckybill said:
No, I'm saying there is ZERO NT proof of OSAS. Are you Christian? Then give us NT proof of OSAS. NO WHERE does it say we can't forsake God.
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[Jhn 3:36 KJV]
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
[Jhn 5:24 KJV]
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
[Jhn 6:47 KJV]
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
 
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Duckybill

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rogerg said:
[Jhn 3:36 KJV]
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
[Jhn 5:24 KJV]
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
[Jhn 6:47 KJV]
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
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ZERO of that says we can't forsake God!

Written to Christians:
Philippians 2:12 (NKJV)
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
 
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rogerg

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Duckybill said:
I understand you have ZERO OSAS Scripture, OT nor NT. There AIN'T any.

Written to Christians:
Galatians 5:1-4 (NKJV)
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
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Paul was instructing/informing of a doctrine -- he goes on to say that will never happen to them - the Lord Himself will guide their minds so that it doesn't - see "through the Lord"

[Gal 5:10 KJV] 10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.
 
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Duckybill

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rogerg said:
Paul was instructing/informing of a doctrine -- he goes on to say that will never happen to them - the Lord Himself will guide their minds so that it doesn't - see "through the Lord"

[Gal 5:10 KJV] 10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.
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Where does Paul say "he goes on to say that will never happen to them"?
 
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rogerg

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Duckybill said:
Written to Christians:
Philippians 2:12 (NKJV)
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
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You forgot to include the preceding verse. In other words, no matter what the elect initially believes or is at spiritually speaking, that God will nevertheless direct them to the faith/knowledge/end result that He preappointed for them

[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
 
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Duckybill

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rogerg said:
You forgot to include the preceding verse. In other words, no matter what the elect initially believes or is at spiritually speaking, that God will nevertheless direct them to the faith/knowledge/end result that He preappointed for them

[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
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Where does it say we can't forsake God? It doesn't!
 
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Duckybill

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rogerg said:
By saying "none otherwise minded"
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I like OSASers saying I can NEVER be unsaved. Wish I could say the same for OSASers! Was Paul saved?

1 Corinthians 9:27 (NKJV)
27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
 
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rogerg

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Duckybill said:
Where does it say we can't forsake God? It doesn't!
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It is by Paul saying that it is God Himself who works and leads us to where He wants us to be even though it may seem
to be coming from/by/through us, it isn't. And if it is God who is doing it, then we cannot fall from it of ourselves.
 
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Duckybill

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rogerg said:
It is by Paul saying that it is God Himself who works and leads us to where He wants us to be even though it may seem
to be coming from/by/through us, it isn't. And if it is God who is doing it, then we cannot fall from it of ourselves.
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No Scripture? Of course not! I have plenty.

Matthew 7:1-2 (NKJV)
1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged;

Pity OSASers on Judgment Day!
 
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Duckybill

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rogerg said:
this is God working in Paul doing of His good pleasure.
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OSASers totally ignore the Scriptures. Paul said he could "become disqualified", unsaved! Paul wrote more Books in the Bible than anyone. Was Paul unsaved? OSASers avoid Scripture like PLAGUE!
 
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rogerg

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Duckybill said:
Matthew 7:1-2 (NKJV)
1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged;

Pity OSASers on Judgment Day!
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Only God can judge. We are being informed that those who judge are under law not grace because a judge is central to law and
therefore will be judged by law. True Christians come to trust/believe in grace, not law for salvation for they are no longer under law
 
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Duckybill

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rogerg said:
Only God can judge. We are being informed that those who judge are under law not grace because a judge is central to law and
therefore will be judged by law. True Christians come to trust/believe in grace, not law for salvation for they are no longer under law
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Then why do OSASers judge nonOSASers as unsaved?
 
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rogerg

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Duckybill said:
True indeed, but OSASers keep trying to judge nonOSASers as unsaved.
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I haven't heard that but all I know is that Christ alone is the Saviour.

Logging off now - have a good evening
 
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FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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rogerg said:
Supposed "evidence" ascertained by means external to the Bible are subjective to the one examining it, and therefore untrustworthy.
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I agree with this. In fact, "means external to the Bible" are called "commentaries". Opinions.

And either you've had a complete failure of comprehension, or you don't care about what God has set-forth regarding the rules of biblical interpretation.
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OK, I see. I don't get to "make the rules of Bible interpretation", but it seems YOU do. How does that work, exactly?

The criteria you have described are derived not from God but yourself: your statements fly in the face of the Bible. Therefore, you have no basis for the demands you've imposed upon others for identifying God's truth.
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Your commentary is an opinion.

I hope everyone who reads this with take into consideration that your analysis began from a spiritually corrupt foundation
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My analysis begins with what verses ACTUALLY SAY. So then, it shows what YOU think of God's Word; a "spiritually corrupt foundation".

Thanks for being transparent.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Duckybill said:
No Scripture? Of course not. OSAS is not in the Bible.
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Of course it is.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

From this verse, WHEN does a believer POSSESS eternal life? It says those who believe (present tense) HAVE (as in possess, also in the present tense) eternal life.

So, we KNOW from this verse that the MOMENT of saving faith in Christ, the believer possesses eternal life.

Now, does the Bible teach anywhere that eternal life can be revoked? No.

Now, John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

This verse very clearly says that those given eternal life shall NEVER PERISH.

So, you now have a choice to make. Either continue believing the very unbiblical heresy that salvation can be lost, or accept the clear words of Jesus Himself about how to receive eternal life (Jn 5:24), and the result of having eternal life (Jn 10:28).

Your choice.
 
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