Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[phil36]

So you see that those who are elected have no ability to choose not to serve the Lord?

No because when your heart is renewed it is effectual. Christ said that those whom the father gave him, he would never lose. Secured in Christ.

But rather we are freed from our bondage to sin, and from its power to come to choose faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all" -John 6:63

"no one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit" - 1 Cor 12:3

"This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." John 6:65, and All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. - John 6:37

"no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, THAT WE MIGHT UNDERSTAND the things freely given us by God...The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” Acts 2:38-39

He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.” -John 6:65.

The spiritually dead man does not understand spiritual matters. This plain from scripture so he will not come to faith unless He has spiritual life, a renewed heart, his eyes opened.. then he can receive this by faith. The father enables men to come.. Men don't enable themselves.

1. Who do you think it is who teaches ALL mankind the gospel?

2. How can one be judged for blasphemy of the spirit if the holy spirit could not hep them understand so they willingly deny his word.

3. The same passage in John 6 jesus says this - 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Once again, You cant remove belief from the equation. Jesus said it was the fathers will. That all who not only see. but believe.

Remember many there did not believe. The ones who stayed. They believed.

Why people continue to remove faith from the equation is beyond me.. We are saved by GRACE THROUGH FAITH

Chose this day.....

 

[CS1]

No because when your heart is renewed it is effectual. Christ said that those whom the father gave him, he would never lose. Secured in Christ.

But rather we are freed from our bondage to sin, and from its power to come to choose faith..

So David who heart was after God did not murder, or commit adultery?

 

[phil36]

1. Who do you think it is who teaches ALL mankind the gospel?

2. How can one be judged for blasphemy of the spirit if the holy spirit could not hep them understand so they willingly deny his word.

3. The same passage in John 6 jesus says this - 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Once again, You cant remove belief from the equation. Jesus said it was the fathers will. That all who not only see. but believe.

Remember many there did not believe. The ones who stayed. They believed.

Why people continue to remove faith from the equation is beyond me.. We are saved by GRACE THROUGH FAITH

Chose this day.....

1. Who do you think it is who teaches ALL mankind the gospel? The gospel is to go out to all men. Who the Holy Spirit illumines I don't know. That's God's power not ours.

2. How can one be judged for blasphemy of the spirit if the holy spirit could not hep them understand so they willingly deny his word.

No man who is spiritual dead understands spiritual things (Jesus words not mine), God is under no compulsion or obligation to save any man or illumine the hearts of any man. There is nothing in man deserving mercy and grace. All that men actually deserve is Gods judgment for their sin. It is by amazing grace that God has decreed to save any.

3. The same passage in John 6 jesus says this - 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

That's right all those God has called and has given to Jesus will be enabled to see Jesus and believe. and this is EXACTLY what Jesus says in the same chapter you quoted "He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.” -John 6:65.

Once again, You cant remove belief from the equation. Jesus said it was the fathers will. That all who not only see. but believe.

I don't remove belief from the equation and never have. God enables us to believe Just as Jesus himself said. I agree with you, why would anyone remove faith from the equation. I certainly wouldn't. it is essential.

I've included my answers in Blue above. thanks for the good willed exchange and thoughtfull posts EG

 

[phil36]

So David who heart was after God did not murder, or commit adultery?

Again, what is your reference or even point? Do you as a christian sin? you see whats your point?

Anyhow, to answer what you have said: Was David Glorified like our future hope ?

 

[CS1]

Again, what is your reference or even point?

Anyhow, to answer what you have said: Was David Glorified like our future hope ?

Never mind It's just better not to have a conversation with you

 

[phil36]

Never mind It's just better not to have a conversation with you

I answered your question. But OK. Have a good evening.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Hi freegrace,

Thanks for addressing the issues at hand and using scripture, if you don't mind I'll answer just the two above because it relates to all Christians.

Once we are saved, Christs righteousness is imputed to us, therefore we are declared righteous. Our position in Christ is always the same and will never change.

Corrrect!

Yet we live in this body of flesh and we will have the struggle with the flesh, but we will grow more and more Holy as time goes by.

No, spiritual growth is not automatic and increases with time.

But this anticipates a future time when we are glorified - A time when there will be no sin and not just that and unlike Eden, there will be no more possibility of sin.

This is after our death, when we will be in eternity.

So although we are saved we will still sin, but we will strive to grow in Holiness in anticipation of the hope that is to come.

We should strive.... Not all do.

When Christ returns and we will be fully without spot or blemish.

I believe when saints die and go to heaven is when they are sinless. Certainly they can't sin in heaven.

When we look at what God decrees we can start at the very start.

In the begining God said.. and he caused this whole universe to come into existence. Something from nothing.

Without doubt, God did CAUSE the universe to exist.

But we can't assume that all of God's decrees cause actions.

I agree with you about service we all should serve each other, aren't we called to do that, i agree with you on that point. service is one aspect of being called, as is being called in Christ.

Anyhow, we have to bear in mind, that no matter what it is By grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

Absolutely!

 

[phil36]

We should strive.... Not all do.

Sadly this is true and even more sadly it has been true of myself at times.. But the Lord is merciful and strengthens me day by day.

I need to always remind myself of:

Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. - Col 3:1

 

[brightfame52]

So you see that those who are elected have no ability to choose not to serve the Lord?

Election is of grace, no works or conditions involved.

 

[brightfame52]

Only if you consider faith as good works but it isn't. Yes, it was all by grace through faith and faith still works. "Thy faith made thee whole" that Jesus says.

I dont consider faith at all, it was of grace, no conditions, no works, no faith, no repentance, nothing but Gods will to do it !

 

[brightfame52]

the error in this is you do not consider the holiness of God or HIS ability to change HIS mind
was Saul the elect? yet God chose another did he not? IS obedience a requirement as Jesus said you will do IF you LOVE ME.

Disobedience, willful sin, and unrighteousness don't matter IF you are the Elect? God just was kidding that those who are not Holy will NOT SEE HIM?

Huh ? You going off on some other tangent now friend, not interested. Election is of Grace, no works/conditions !

 

[rayzor]

It is written: He that endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

 

[rayzor]

its just that he knows who's going to change their minds

 

[fredoheaven]

I dont consider faith at all, it was of grace, no conditions, no works, no faith, no repentance, nothing but Gods will to do it !

And you won't consider clear scripture when it says grace through faith. Yes, grace is in opposition to works but true grace worketh well with faith. Anyway, the election is to service which requires faith. The below passage would tell us that it takes grace by faith or "whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed"

Romans 9:30-33

King James Version

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I've included my answers in Blue above. thanks for the good willed exchange and thoughtfull posts EG

Again our disagreement is in HOW and WHO the HS illuminates

I am told he convicts the world. Everyone Not just the elect.

Thats WHY we have no excuse.

again, in my view, If I am unable to even understand the gospel. I can not be held accountable for rejecting the gospel.

Again, at the great white throne, they are not judged for sin (it was paid for) they are judged for their works. (And found lacking) they are condemned because of unbelief.

To condemn a person because they did not believe, while at the same time not even giving them the ability to believe, This is not righteous judgment in my view brother.

Love ya Bro. We are brothers. Of that I have no doubt!..

 

[John146]

It is written: He that endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

To the Jew...

 

[CS1]

To the Jew...

LOL it is funny that unconditional Election doesn't include the Jewish people to those who speak strongly about Unconditional Election LOL

 

[Evmur]

I'm starting to get a clearer picture of what you are saying Evmur thanks.

1) So you have the what you would maybe call the meek, who get rewarded with salvation based on their good deeds?

2) Then you have the brethern who are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone?

3) Then you the sheep..how are they saved Evmur?

Our inheritance is Heaven, the sheep have an inheritance. The meek shall inherit the earth.

You ask plenty but do not answer much. To be fair I never have seen a satisfactory answer to the fact that the sheep are rewarded for their deeds, or the servants who gained more talents. The answer is always fudged.

Revelations speaks about the resurrection in 2 stages 1,000 years apart. it describes those who shares in the first resurrection as blest and holy. After the 1, 000 years we see the the second and general resurrection when every man and every woman will stand before the Great White Throne they are judged by their deeds.

You believe there will be a new earth as well as a new heaven, you will acknowledge that earth is not heaven, that both earth and heaven will be populated.

Our inheritance is heaven, the meek shall inherit the earth.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It is written: He that endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

Check the context. "the end" refers to the end of the 7 year Tribulation.