Do you want the truth? Here is the truth about eschatology

delirious · Jul 6, 2019

The Greek word "mello" is in the present infinitive in Rev 1:19. It does not mean things that WILL take place at some point in the distant future but things that are ABOUT TO take place. Once again, you violate your own hermeneutic.

Ahwatukee said:

The law passed away in 70 AD (Heb 8:13). The old covenant does not exist anymore.

Ahwatukee said:

Show me the verse in Scripture that says that? Plus Revelation 1:1 tells you the book is encoded in signs and symbols. Once again, you violate your own hermeneutic over and over and over and over and over and over and over because you don't like what the verses say.

Ahwatukee said:

I have interacted with you many times in the past and you have always insulted me and called me names and called me a false teacher. I don't have much patience for you anymore. I'm not angry with you. Just tired of you. You are so full of pride that is very ugly. Your pride will never allow you to see that your eschatology is wrong. You will find out when you die though.

Anyways, I harbor no ill will against you. God bless you.

Ahwatukee said:

You mean the same hermeneutic you violated over and over in this thread in responding to me? The same hermeneutic you violate when you deny what those dozens of verses I listed in my original post say?

You are not interested in those verses because you don't like what they say. Nevertheless, I apologize for being a little rude.

Ahwatukee · Jul 6, 2019

delirious said:

We have been over this before. Jesus did not reward anyone "according to their works" at the Transfiguration which shows your interpretation is false.

No yet! He will reward when the church is resurrected and caught up and when He returns to the earth to end the age.

You don't understand it because you make it PHYSICAL. It is being reconciled to God in the SPIRIT. And all of those things listed in Dan 9:24 were most certainly accomplished in 70 AD.

That's because it is physical. All the other prophesies were fulfilled literally, so why would you think that the future prophesies would be fulfilled spiritually?

"The Lord himself will give you a sign. A virgin will conceive and bring forth a Son and His name shall be called Immanuel," which means God with us. That is one example of prophecy taking place literally and there are many, many more.

The context is what you should be concerned with, not the meaning of the word "Genea." The generation that Jesus was speaking about is the one all those signs begin to take place. Therefore, since none of those signs have taken place, then it is yet a future event. If Jesus was speaking about the generation that He was living in, then there would be no need for the mention of those signs. Not only that, but you are not understanding that all of those signs lead up to His return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom, which will be a literal thousand years. According to you, we would be past the thousand years and would now be living in the eternal state. And I don't have to say anything in regards to that.

The kingdom of God is a literal place, where God's throne is and where the angels reside. When Jesus said that He would not drink of the fruit of the vine until He drinks it anew with us in the kingdom of heaven, He was speaking about physical wine.

Regarding physical, Jesus was resurrected in the same physical body that he was crucified in and is where He is also sitting at the right hand of the Father in. As he demonstrated to His disciples after He resurrected, He said, "A spirit doesn't have flesh and bone as you see I have." Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father in a physical body.

Just because you chose preterism does not mean that it is correct. It just means that you went from one bad choice to another. And that because you listened and adopted the false teachings of men. And it's a eternal life threatening decision! For if you are embracing full preterism, then you believe that the resurrection has already taken place, which is the same error that Hymenaeus and Philetus made when they were teaching that the resurrection had already taken place. Paul said that their teaching would spread like gangrene, that they had wondered away from the truth and that by this teaching they were destroying the faith of some. Now you and others are doing the same by teaching that the resurrection has already taken place, as well as all end-time events.

delirious · Jul 6, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

The verses are clear in what they say. You violate your own literal hermeneutic because you don't want to accept them. That is up to you.

dcontroversal · Jul 6, 2019

UnderGrace said:

And will again

UnderGrace · Jul 6, 2019

delirious said:

Jesus did not state "final" generation....He said this generation

While the disciples focused on the 2nd temple, why would Jesus was talking about a 3rd temple?

Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck. Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us. For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry? (Luke 23:27-31)

When does “this generation” start? 1948? (Birth of Israel)

1948+40= 1988.

1973? (Yom Kippur War)

1973+40=2013. Nope!

I guess we have a problem?

TheDivineWatermark · Jul 6, 2019

delirious said:

In the phrase I bolded, above, you seem to leave off one important phrase, "[things mello to take place] AFTER THESE"

That gives an entirely different sense from the partial phrase you highlighted, by itself. Just sayin'

https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/1-19.htm [<---and "mello" appears to me to be (not "infinitive" but) "indicative"--show me now I'm wrong, thanks!]

TheDivineWatermark · Jul 6, 2019

… "the things that ARE" [v.19b] (or the v.19a "things which YOU HAVE SEEN") includes the v.13 "and in the midst of the lampstands, One like the Son of Man, having been clothed to the feet, and having been girded about at the breasts with a golden sash."

...which is reflective of another passage telling about such... (related; and related to "WHAT" happens "WHEN" in relation to "what OTHER THING" [i.e. chronology])

"...until out of the midst he be come [come to be], AND THEN [kai tote] shall that Wicked be revealed..."

azamzimtoti · Jul 6, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

Indicative is IPro not I.

It's mello is listed as infinitive.

TheDivineWatermark · Jul 6, 2019

azamzimtoti said:

So at the source I linked, it shows this form of "mello" to be "indicative" in this verse ("I" being "indicative," whereas "N" is for "infinitive," here at this link--the one I supplied).

Only in a couple of the verses (listed in OP??) was that word in the "infinitive" ["N"] (I showed which ones those were, there, in my earlier post).

Ahwatukee · Jul 6, 2019

delirious said:

The Greek word "mello" is in the present infinitive in Rev 1:19. It does not mean things that WILL take place at some point in the distant future but things that are ABOUT TO take place. Once again, you violate your own hermeneutic.

I have done nothing of the sort. Understanding scripture is not based on the word "mello" or any other word. The key to understanding the chronological order of Revelation is found in Rev.1:19.

The law has not passed away neither for Israel, nor for unbelievers. Because they have not believed in Jesus they are still under the law and will be judged by. Scripture states that seventy sevens were decreed for Israel and Jerusalem. Sixty nine of those seven year periods have been fulfilled. When the Messiah was cut off at the end of the sixty ninth seven, God put that last seven year period on hold and began to build His church. Once the church as been completed, then the Lord will gather them and will pick up right where He left of with Israel, under the law, in fulfillment of that last seven years, with Jesus returning at the end of it.

Whether you believe it or not, this is what is going to happen. And all of these events that you say have already taken place, you will see happening before you very eyes. Hopefully at that time you will realize that you were deceived by the teaching of preterism.

I don't need to show you a scripture, because that is the normal way to read anything. If it doesn't makes sense in the literal, then you have to look for a different method of interpreting it. This is common sense. I know that there is no such thing as a seven headed dragon with ten horns, so I know that it is symbolic. Not to mention that the symbolism is revealed in chapter 17. However, the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will all be literal events.

"This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants what must soon come to pass. He made it known by sending His angel to His servant John, who testifies to everything he saw. This is the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ."

The events of Revelation were prophesied by the OT prophets who also stated that they were near and coming soon, yet they have yet to take place.

==================================================
Isaiah 13:9-13 See, the day of the Lord is coming -a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger--to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it.

The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. (Matt.24:29, Rev.6:12-16)

The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light. (Ditto)

I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins.

I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless.

I will make man scarcer than pure gold, rarer than the gold of Ophir. (Mt.24:22)

Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the Lord Almighty, in the day of His burning anger.

Isaiah 13:6-8 Wail, for the day of the Lord is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty. Because of this, all hands will go limp; every man’s heart will melt.

Terror will seize them, pain and anguish will grip them; they will writhe like a woman in labor. They will look aghast at each other, their faces aflame.

Sixth Seal:
Isaiah 2:19-21 Men will flee to caves in the rocks and to holes in the ground from dread of the Lord and the splendor of His majesty, when He rises to shake the earth.

In that day men will throw away to the rodents and bats their idols of silver and idols of gold, which they made to worship. They will flee to caverns in the rocks and the overhanging crags from dread of the Lord and the splendor of His majesty when He rises to shake the earth. (Rev. sixth seal)

"Joel 1:15 - Alas for that day! For the day of the Lord is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty."

"Joel 2:10 -11 before them the earth shakes, the sky trembles, the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars no longer shine.(Rev.6:12-16)

Zephaniah 1:14-18 - The great day of the Lord is near - near and coming quickly. Listen! The cry on the day of the Lord will be bitter, the shouting of the warrior there.
That day will be a day of wrath,
A day of distress and anguish,
A day of trouble and ruin,
A day of darkness and gloom,
A day of clouds and blackness,
A day of trumpet and battle cry against the fortified cities and against the corner towers.
I will bring distress on the people and they will walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the Lord.

All of the prophets above and those I didn't list, state that the day of the Lord is near or coming, yet it hasn't taken place yet. That phase therefore is meant to convey imminence, i.e. always about to happen, in the workings, on the horizon, looming, etc. If don't have fulfillment then you can't claim it as being fulfilled. By the way, the end of the day of the Lord is when Jesus returns to end the age and that has not yet taken place.

I'm not insulting you. I am contending for the truth of God's word and telling you that you have adopted a false teaching which is eternal life threatening if you continue in it. Consider the following:

"I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book."

By adopting and teaching preterism, you are adding and taking away from the words of the prophesies in Revelation, even though you think that you are correct.

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse! As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you embraced, let him be under a curse!"

Give it some serious thought and pray about it.

TheDivineWatermark · Jul 6, 2019

EDIT: this should have read: "...show me how I'm wrong, thanks!]" lol

TheDivineWatermark · Jul 6, 2019

… so I'm just saying that, yes, 1:19c comes immediately on the heels of "the FINISHING of" 1:19a/b... (but THAT [a/b] has to completely run its course first, before the "part c" can commence to unfold, time-wise [or, chronologically])… and that's what the specific phrase "AFTER THESE" speaks to.

[just as elsewhere; like 4:1]

delirious · Jul 6, 2019

UnderGrace said:

And those verses were fulfilled in 70 AD.

Rev 6:15-17, "And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Romans 4:15 says, " because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression."

Who were the only people who had the law? Old covenant Israel. That's why this next verse says:

Rev 15:1, "Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete."

The wrath of God was complete when old covenant Israel and their temple was destroyed. The law passed away.

Deuteronomy 28 & 32 are great references that tell you how old covenant Israel would end. And it is not with a regathering in 1948.

Pay special attention to Deut 28:49-57. Talks about the siege by the Romans. Verse 53 talks about eating their own children during the siege which Josephus records about Mary of Bethezuba. The last verse (Deut 28:68) talks about being taken back to Egypt as slaves where no one would buy them. That is what Titus did with some of them. But the days were cut short for the Roman siege because there were some Jews within Jerusalem in 70 AD that repented and God spared them. That is what Matt 24:22 means when it says, "unless those days were shortened no flesh would be saved".

But don't tell that to our dispensational friends because they will get angry.

TheDivineWatermark · Jul 6, 2019

delirious said:

lol. After reading your entire post, I thought this last sentence said, "But don't tell that to our dispensational friends because they will get hangry" HAHA

delirious · Jul 6, 2019

@Ahwatukee you quoted in your post #170 this "Give it some serious thought and pray about it. "

You should take your own advice.

You quoted Isaiah 13 which is about the fall of Babylon to the Medo-Persian empire and not the end of the world as you mistakenly claim. If you just read the whole chapter you would see that. You did the same thing with the other passages you listed. Put them in the future because you don't understand what your reading. Sorry to sound harsh but I'm a little tired of your insults. God bless you.

delirious · Jul 6, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

Well if you are on the west coast of the United States, like me, it is getting close to dinner time.

UnderGrace · Jul 6, 2019

delirious said:

And those verses were fulfilled in 70 AD.

Rev 6:15-17, "And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Romans 4:15 says, " because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression."

Who were the only people who had the law? Old covenant Israel. That's why this next verse says:

Rev 15:1, "Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete."

The wrath of God was complete when old covenant Israel and their temple was destroyed. The law passed away.

Deuteronomy 28 & 32 are great references that tell you how old covenant Israel would end. And it is not with a regathering in 1948.

Pay special attention to Deut 28:49-57. Talks about the siege by the Romans. Verse 53 talks about eating their own children during the siege which Josephus records about Mary of Bethezuba. The last verse (Deut 28:68) talks about being taken back to Egypt as slaves where no one would buy them. That is what Titus did with some of them. But the days were cut short for the Roman siege because there were some Jews within Jerusalem in 70 AD that repented and God spared them. That is what Matt 24:22 means when it says, "unless those days were shortened no flesh would be saved".

But don't tell that to our dispensational friends because they will get angry.

Yes it happens quite often that way.

The impact of this school of thought.... tragic.

Sometimes I wonder what would Edwards, Spurgeon, Barns, Gill, Henry etc., etc., think of all this, the way things are piecemealed together to fit a political modern day narrative.

TheDivineWatermark · Jul 6, 2019

So, in Acts 24:15, I see that both verbs are in the "infinitive [N]": https://biblehub.com/text/acts/24-15.htm

"mellein [V-PNA] esesthai [V-FNM]" (the "N" for "INFINITIVE," in this source) [this, about "resurrection, both of the just and the unjust"]

JamOn · Jul 6, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

You want it to be about sacrifices, it doesn’t say that at all, it reads as it is, morning and evening one day.

dcontroversal · Jul 6, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

Such are the ways of deceivers.....they either embellish or leave little phrases or details out or deny the verbiage and or context.......

Do you want the truth? Here is the truth about eschatology

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