Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

[justpassinthrough]

Boy that's great!

Now let's make sure we're talking about the SAME Gospel unto Salvation. Because Paul tells us that ANYONE who preaches a DIFFERENT Gospel is cursed:

Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.” Mark 1:15-15


Jesus sent His 12 —


And He called the twelve to Himself, and began to send them out two by two, and gave them power over unclean spirits. He commanded them to take nothing for the journey except a staff—no bag, no bread, no copper in their money belts— but to wear sandals, and not to put on two tunics.
Also He said to them, “In whatever place you enter a house, stay there till you depart from that place. And whoever will not receive you nor hear you, when you depart from there, shake off the dust under your feet as a testimony against them. Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!”
So they went out and preached that people should repent. And they cast out many demons, and anointed with oil many who were sick, and healed them.
Mark 6:7-13

• The Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Gospel He and His Apostles preached, will continue to be preached to the end of this age.

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:14



Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38


He we have a word for word recount of what Jesus Christ sent the Apostle Paul to preach.
We know that if anyone preaches another Gospel, they are cursed.


Words of Christ in red -


So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:15-12



If it doesn’t have the word repent in it, it’s not the Gospel of Jesus Christ!


If a person does not obey the Gospel command to repent, they will not be saved.










JLB

 

[justpassinthrough]

No it doesn't.

From John 3:16 in biblehub.com -

pisteuó: to believe, entrust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Definition: to believe, entrust
Usage: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.

Please point out where you see "obey".


OK, from John 3:36 in biblehub.com -
apeitheó: to disobey
Original Word: ἀπειθέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apeitheó
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-i-theh'-o)
Definition: to disobey
Usage: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 544 apeithéō – literally, refuse to be persuaded (by the Lord). See 543 (apeitheia).

It means to refuse to believe. Literally.


Obviously means to obey His command to believe in Him for salvation.




JPT

[/QUOTE]




Believe means trust, commit and obey.

Unbelief is Disobedience.


Believe and Obey are used interchangeably in the Bible based upon which version you use.


If a person doesn’t obey the words of Jesus Christ, it’s because they don’t believe.


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9

• He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him

When we confess Jesus as Lord, in order to be saved, we have made an eternal commitment to obey His as our Lord.


But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? Luke 6:46


He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8






JPT

 

[PennEd]

Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.” Mark 1:15-15

So the gospel (which simply means "good news") they preached was that Jesus was going to die to pay their sin debt, and be resurrected on the third dat?

Hmmm.... Pretty mazing if that were the case, since NONE of them, including Peter, believed that Gospel til He rose.

 

[justpassinthrough]

So the gospel (which simply means "good news") they preached was that Jesus was going to die to pay their sin debt, and be resurrected on the third dat?

Hmmm.... Pretty mazing if that were the case, since NONE of them, including Peter, believed that Gospel til He rose.

You will have to do better than state your opinion in the face of such overwhelming scripture.


The way we obey the Gospel is to repent. Repent is the command of the Gospel.


Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.” Mark 1:15-15


Jesus sent His 12 —


And He called the twelve to Himself, and began to send them out two by two, and gave them power over unclean spirits. He commanded them to take nothing for the journey except a staff—no bag, no bread, no copper in their money belts— but to wear sandals, and not to put on two tunics.
Also He said to them, “In whatever place you enter a house, stay there till you depart from that place. And whoever will not receive you nor hear you, when you depart from there, shake off the dust under your feet as a testimony against them. Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!”
So they went out and preached that people should repent. And they cast out many demons, and anointed with oil many who were sick, and healed them.
Mark 6:7-13

• The Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Gospel He and His Apostles preached, will continue to be preached to the end of this age.

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:14



Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38


He we have a word for word recount of what Jesus Christ sent the Apostle Paul to preach.

We know that if anyone preaches another Gospel, they are cursed.


Words of Christ in red -


So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:15-12



If it doesn’t have the word repent in it, it’s not the Gospel of Jesus Christ!






JPT

 

[PennEd]

The way we obey the Gospel is to repent. Repent is the command of the Gospel.

I noticed you didn't answer the question.

Now either Peter and the apostles went around preaching Christ's death and Resurrection when they were sent out by Jesus. This happening BEFORE His death, or they went around preaching the "good news" that the Messiah was here and ready to rule Israel, which resulted in the rejection of the Messiah, which led to THE Gospel (good news) unto Salvation. Which is confessing Jesus as Lord, believing Jesus died to pay your sin debt, and that He rose on the 3rd day.


But you're right, repentance IS part of THE Gospel unto Salvation.

But certainly not in the sense you think.

It's a repentance of DEAD WORKS to attain or maintain Salvation. Basically going the way of Cain.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Believe means trust, commit and obey.

OK then. One more time. From a Greek lexicon:

pisteuó: to believe, entrust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Definition: to believe, entrust
Usage: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.

So, where do you find "commit" or "obey" in this definition?

Believe and Obey are used interchangeably in the Bible based upon which version you use.

That is your opinion, or the opinion of whoever is in the position of teaching you, whether pastor or SS teacher.

If a person doesn’t obey the words of Jesus Christ, it’s because they don’t believe.

Haven't you read 1 or 2 Corinthians? That church was full of sinning believers. Yet Paul NEVER challenged their saved status. Instead, he took them to task BECAUSE they were believers and saved.

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36

apietho means to "disbelieve".

When we confess Jesus as Lord, in order to be saved, we have made an eternal commitment to obey His as our Lord.

Please quote the verse that says "confessing jesus as Lord" is necessary to be saved. Paul's answer to the jailer didn't say that.

Nor did Jesus in ANY of the gospel accounts.

And please explain why Peter wrote this verse to "the elect" meaning they were already saved:

1 Pet 3:15 - But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that is in you. But respond with gentleness and respect,

If you are correct, then Peter was sadly mistaken. Believers are told to set apart Jesus Christ AS Lord. No one gets saved by making Christ Lord of their lives. To do that is about lifestyle, and NO ONE is saved by their lifestyle.

He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

What are the 2 words at the beginning of this list of sins?

"cowardly" means lacking faith.
"unbelieving" is clear enough.

So this list begins with unbelief. The list refers to unbelievers. That's who will end up in the lake of fire. By never believing, they never received the free gift of eternal life. Rev 20:15

 

[listenyoumustAll]

Gold before the furnace is Gold, Gold after the furnace is pure Gold. When called by God, gold. It's gold.. The presence of the impurities before the furnace doesn't make it wood or stone... So it is with salvation, the father (God), finds the lost sheep, not the reverse.. The key is don't be afraid in the furnace it works for the good the believer in Christ Jesus.. Those that seemly fall to backside never had a renewed mind in the first place.

 

[Chester]

Perhaps I misunderstood you. Do you believe someone who is saved today by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, can somehow lose their salvation and not be saved tomorrow or next year or 100 years from now? If so, how?

For me, here is clearly and precisely what I believe:

The person who is believing in Jesus Christ has eternal life. The person who is not believing in Jesus Christ does not have eternal life.

I am believing in Jesus Christ today: I need Him: without Him I have no hope! I will cling to Him and to His blood payment for my sin till the day that I die! Because of His resurrection, and my resurrection with Him, I through him and all because of Him can live above the power of sin in the present. When I do sin, I am forgiven because of the blood of the Lamb. PTL! Do I have eternal security in Christ Jesus? Absolutely.

The person who is not believing in Jesus, however, has none of this. For him, the wages of sin is death: eternal death!

 

[FreeGrace2]

For me, here is clearly and precisely what I believe:

The person who is not believing in Jesus, however, has none of this. For him, the wages of sin is death: eternal death!

The real issue is whether a person EVER believed in Christ. The Bible makes this very clear.
It's not about "presently believing" in order to be saved. It's about EVER believing in Christ to be saved.

John 5:24 tells us that those who presently believe presently POSSESS eternal life. AND, there are NO verses anywhere that tell us that eternal life can be taken away for any reason.

Then, in John 10:28 Jesus SAID that recipients of eternal life (which is WHEN they believed) shall never perish. So this is a guarantee of eternal security, all on its own.

Then, we have 2 verses that tell us in very plain language who will be condemned. And it isn't those who aren't "presently believing".

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Both verses say that it is those who "have not believed" who will be condemned.

And just for clarity, the words "have not believed" means NEVER believed.

Because those who used to believe DID believe, just like the second soil in Luke 8. They believed for a while.

Once a person has believed, it CANNOT be said of them that they "have not believed".

So then, once a person HAS placed their faith in Christ for salvation, they CANNOT perish or be condemned. The Bible says so.

 

[fredoheaven]

If a person doesn’t obey the words of Jesus Christ, it’s because they don’t believe.

JPT[/QUOTE]
The logic does not really satisfy the definition of the word "believe". The above, means belief is the cause and its effect is to obey. This not what we exactly what it meant by definition.

 

[cv5]

So let's discuss the doctrine/issue of so-called Conditional Security vs Eternal Security. Do you believe in Once Saved, Always Saved? I believe Salvation is a Combination of the Grace of Justification+the Grace of Perseverance i.e. Salvation=Justification+Perseverance. So, after Justification, we must pray for perseverance, otherwise we risk being cut off or falling away, as the Bible records that some have done. By God's Grace, we can persevere to the end.

The famous saying of Our Lord is: "But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved." (Mat 24:13)

Three or four passages to start off the discussion below:

1. John 15: "2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit ... 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

Seems to be echoed in Romans 11:22: "22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."

2. Heb 6:4-6:
"4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

3. 2 Pet 2:20-22:

"20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."

These verses very clearly seem to teach that Justification!=(not equal to)Salvation. Initial Justification+Final Perseverance = Full Salvation. Thoughts?

God Bless,
Xavier.

1) Matthew 24:13 does not pertain to the Church age (the age of grace) or Christians. It pertains to the earth dwellers remaining at the 70th week of Daniel tribulation period. The Church has already been raptured at this point. There is a completely different dynamic in play during the 70th week.

2) A careful reading of Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10, indicates three different parties: us/we, you/ye, and those/them/they. The first two are saved.......the last one is not.

 

[justpassinthrough]

I noticed you didn't answer the question.

Now either Peter and the apostles went around preaching Christ's death and Resurrection when they were sent out by Jesus. This happening BEFORE His death, or they went around preaching the "good news" that the Messiah was here and ready to rule Israel, which resulted in the rejection of the Messiah, which led to THE Gospel (good news) unto Salvation. Which is confessing Jesus as Lord, believing Jesus died to pay your sin debt, and that He rose on the 3rd day.


But you're right, repentance IS part of THE Gospel unto Salvation.

But certainly not in the sense you think.

It's a repentance of DEAD WORKS to attain or maintain Salvation. Basically going the way of Cain.

There is only one Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, that He sent His Apostles to preach.



If it doesn’t have the command to REPENT, then it isnt the Gospel of Jesus Christ.



Again, here is what Jesus sent Paul to preach — words of Christ in red


But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20


Example:


Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38





JLB

 

[justpassinthrough]

Please quote the verse that says "confessing jesus as Lord" is necessary to be saved. /QUOTE]



that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

• with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

JLB

 

[justpassinthrough]

If a person doesn’t obey the words of Jesus Christ, it’s because they don’t believe.

JPT

The logic does not really satisfy the definition of the word "believe". The above, means belief is the cause and its effect is to obey. This not what we exactly what it meant by definition.[/QUOTE]


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NKJV


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9

• the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Please quote the verse that says "confessing jesus as Lord" is necessary to be saved.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Yes, thanks. Confessing what you BELIEVE. We're on the same page.

 

[Snacks]

The way we obey the Gospel is to repent. Repent is the command of the Gospel.

I’ll never downgrade the importance of repentance, however loving God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength, as well as loving our neighbors as ourselves is the Greatest Commandment of the Gospel. ~ Mark 12:29-31

 

[FreeGrace2]

I’ll never downgrade the importance of repentance, however loving God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength, as well as loving our neighbors as ourselves is the Greatest Commandment of the Gospel. ~ Mark 12:29-31

Guys, the Gospel is about salvation. The 10 commandments do not lead to salvation. Neither does repentance, by itself.

The Gospel message is that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, died for your sins, and putting your full trust in Him alone for salvation is what saves you.

iow, we are saved by trusting in His work alone. Our works have nothing to do with getting saved. It is our works that sent Him to the cross in the first place.

 

[listenyoumustAll]

Guys, the Gospel is about salvation. The 10 commandments do not lead to salvation. Neither does repentance, by itself.

The Gospel message is that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, died for your sins, and putting your full trust in Him alone for salvation is what saves you.

iow, we are saved by trusting in His work alone. Our works have nothing to do with getting saved. It is our works that sent Him to the cross in the first place.

Romans 2:4
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Meaning if God truly works in the confessor he/she should lead to repentance. Else a hypocrite

 

[PennEd]

There is only one Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, that He sent His Apostles to preach.



If it doesn’t have the command to REPENT, then it isnt the Gospel of Jesus Christ.



Again, here is what Jesus sent Paul to preach — words of Christ in red


But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20


Example:


Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38





JLB

Ya STILL didn't answer the question.

Did the Apostles, sent out by Jesus, preach that Jesus is the atoning death for their sins, and that He would rise from the dead 3 days later?

Yes or no.

Show me a Scripture where ANY of them did this prior to Jesus's death and resurrection and I PROMISE to concede every point you have made.

If not, concede to me.

 

[Snacks]

Guys, the Gospel is about salvation. The 10 commandments do not lead to salvation. Neither does repentance, by itself.

The Gospel message is that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, died for your sins, and putting your full trust in Him alone for salvation is what saves you.

iow, we are saved by trusting in His work alone. Our works have nothing to do with getting saved. It is our works that sent Him to the cross in the first place.

I said nothing of the 10 Commandments. The Greatest Commandment is placing your faith in Jesus Christ. That’s what loving God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength is about. It’s not about works, it’s about faith.