Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

peldom10 · May 24, 2022

Your point is for the P churches?

peldom10 · May 24, 2022

Your cart is before the horse.

Christ sacrifice on the cross.......established ...grace...under which we may ask for forgiveness and be baptized and become born again.

BeeThePeace · May 24, 2022

XavierJesusLovesIndia said:

"I do believe, however, there are some dangers in OSAS, especially if it is interpreted as "I can commit whatever sin I like and still never be lost". "
No,no,no,no!

Anyone who would think that when thinking themselves a Christian are not one. Proven by their thinking like that.

1 John 3:9 Anyone having been born of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to continue sinning, because he has been born of God.

Faith and eternal Salvation: Eternal Irrevocable gifts of God.

In reality those who insist Salvation is able to be lost call God a liar and Jesus a failure on the cross. Those are sins.
They are what 1 John 3:9 are calling out .

Here's why. No one who knows the glorious gift of being reborn in their Salvation could ever return to being dead in their sins.

peldom10 · May 24, 2022

BeeThePeace said:

The record books are full of failures.

OSAS also makes no common sense;

OSAS It is not to be.

scriptures;

Mmany other Biblical verses that deny OSAS.;

Fall from grace” – Galatians 5:1-4,13

“Be led away with error” – 2 Peter 3:17
“Err from the truth” – James 5:19-20
“Weak brother may perish” – 1 Corinthians 8:11
“Fall into condemnation” – James 5:12
“Be moved away from the hope” – Colossians 1:21-23
“Deny the Lord who bought them” – 2 Peter 2:1
“Depart from the living God” – Hebrews 3:12
“Can be a castaway” – 1 Corinthians 9:27
“Can become accursed children” – 2 Peter 2:1

Common sense;

Otherwise why would God give us;

Unlimited number of times we can receive forgiveness....wouldn't one application work?
why does scripture warn us about backsliding?
Why does scripture warn us that it would be better that we would have never known of God's revealing for us?
why does scripture warn us ....do not allow any man to steal your crowns?
Why does scripture say...maintain (Righteousness) until the end?
Why does scripture intent show God/Christ/Holy spirit cannot reside where sin is present?
Further, the concept is in conflict with God's intent that we prepare ourselves and live a righteous life.
Why does scriptures says...My spirit will not always strive with man...
etc.

Further,
it is an interpretation of scriptures which did not exists prior to the 1960's....which is telling.

peldom10 · May 24, 2022

BeeThePeace said:

Be reminded of biblical prophecy....."tickle my ears and tell me what I want to hear".

If OSAS made any sense then God would not need to give us unlimited times we can get forgiveness of or sins...would He?

Also, the need for Christs' sacrifice on the cross would be in question...wouldn't It?

Nothing further in realm of grace ....including.....God's judgement after our physical death, right?
God would only have to give each one of us a sin forgiveness.

Now tell me...does any of that sound like ..common sense?

BeeThePeace · May 24, 2022

peldom10 said:

Be reminded of biblical prophecy....."tickle my ears and tell me what I want to hear".

If OSAS made any sense then God would not need to give us unlimited times we can get forgiveness of or sins...would He?

Also, the need for Christs' sacrifice on the cross would be in question...wouldn't It?

Nothing further in realm of grace ....including.....God's judgement after our physical death, right?
God would only have to give each one of us a sin forgiveness.

Now tell me...does any of that sound like ..common sense?

That? No, it makes no sense. Because
it sounds like you don't actually know the scriptures.

GracethroughfaithinChrist · May 24, 2022

BroTan said:

Let's add more Bible to the conversation, because says in Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin. Also Paul says in (Rom. 5:13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. If there is no law, there is no sin!

Sisters and brothers how come none of these verses are read in the church? They were also written by the apostle Paul, I’ll tell you why, because if they were read it would put an end to this false teaching attributed to Paul concerning the unchangeable Royal Law of God. (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. And you thought love was kissing and hugging and rolling around in bed. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. This is God’s definition of love and it is perfect in its ways. So if you say that you know God, but you don’t keep his commandments, lets see what the Lord had specially written for you. (See exodus 20: 1-17)

(1John 2:3-4) (v.3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (v.4) he that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Galatians 3:21-25
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

XavierJesusLovesIndia · May 25, 2022

Hi Magenta. 150 thousand? "50 Million"? I'm sorry, but those numbers are completely fabricated, and are called "the Black Legend" by secular historians: "The Black Legend of the Spanish Inquisition is the hypothesis of the existence of a series of myths and fabrications about the Spanish Inquisition used as propaganda against the Spanish Empire in a time of strong military, commercial and political rivalry between European powers, starting in the 16th century. According to its advocates, Protestant Revolutionary propaganda depicted inquisitions of Catholic monarchs as the epitome of human barbarity with fantastic scenes of tortures, witch hunting and evil friars. Proponents of the theory see it as part of the Spanish Black Legend propaganda, as well as of Anti-Catholic propaganda, and one of the most recurrent Black Legend themes.

Historian Edward Peters defines it as: a body of myths and legends that between the sixteenth and twentieth centuries, established the perceived character of inquisitorial tribunals that have influenced all subsequent attempts to recover the historical reality.[1]"

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legend_of_the_Spanish_Inquisition

The actual number of those who were executed by the Inquisition is probably around 3000 across 300 years - about 10 a year.

The Reformation began in 1517. For about 100-150 years after it, both sides practiced intolerance. Soon, religious liberty began.

The Catholic Colony of Maryland practiced it. From the earlier link: "8. Catholic Maryland: The First Tolerant American Colony

A. Patrick O'Hare

"Catholics . . . were the first in America to proclaim and to practice civil and religious liberty . . . The colony established by Lord Baltimore in Maryland granted civil and religious liberty to all who professed different beliefs . . . At that very time the Puritans of New England and the Episcopalians of Virginia were busily engaged in persecuting their brother Protestants for consciences' sakes and the former were . . . hanging `witches'." (50:300-01)

B. Martin Marty (P)

"Baltimore . . . welcomed, among other English people, even the Catholic-hating Puritans (8) . . . In January of 1691 . . . the new regime brought hard times for Catholics as the Protestants closed their church, forbade them to teach in public . . . but . . . the little outpost of practical Catholic tolerance had left its mark of promise on the land." (9)

C. John Tracy Ellis

"For the first time in history . . . all churches would be tolerated, and . . . none would be the agent of the government . . . Catholics and Protestants side by side on terms of equality and toleration unknown in the mother country . . . The effort proved vain; for . . . the Puritan element . . . October, 1654, repealed the Act of Toleration and outlawed the Catholics . . . condemning ten of them to death, four of whom were executed . . . From . . . 1718 down to the outbreak of the Revolution, the Catholics of Maryland were cut off from all participation in public life, to say nothing of the enactments against their religious services and . . . schools for Catholic instruction . . . During the half-century the Catholics had governed Maryland they had not been guilty of a single act of religious oppression." (10)

D. Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church (P)

"In the 17th century the most notable instances of practical toleration were the colonies of Maryland, founded by Lord Baltimore in 1632 for persecuted Catholics, which offered asylum also to Protestants, and of Rhode Island, founded by Roger Williams." (78:1383)"

Magenta · May 25, 2022

XavierJesusLovesIndia said:

Oh my goodness what a laughable number. Too funny.

Number of Protestants Killed By Catholic Pope (alphanewsdaily.com)

Anyone interested in such history should take a look at that ^

It is fairly lengthy and quite detailed. Ten a year? Totally ridiculous.

Anyone who believes that number is seriously deluded.

XavierJesusLovesIndia · May 25, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

Hi Free Grace.

To be clear, I don't believe Christ, or the Bible, contradicts itself. I believe Christ is the Truth, and the Bible is the Inerrant and Inspired Word of the Living God. I believe the Bible contradicts the OSAS Interpretation, in multiple passages, some of which I cited earlier.

I cited Jn 15:2 in the OP itself, here it is again, up to vs 6: "2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned"

Both vs 2 and vs 6 reiterate that branches in Christ, i.e. truly justified, can be "taken away" by the Father. If they do not abide, they are cast forth as a branch. In addition Mat 13:20-21 and Mat 24:12-13 argue against OSAS.

I can say the same. "Ok, so you DON'T believe what Jesus said in John 15:2-6 [or Mat 13:20-21; 24:12-13; Rev 2:10 etc]. Well, that's just real sad". Instead, I recognize you have a different interpretation.

I gave you my interpretation of John 10. There the Lord is speaking of His elect, those who persevere, not just those who are justified.

I believe Justification+Perseverance=Salvation, as I explained. You believe Justification=Salvation, and all the justified will persevere.

As the Lord said "Many are called, but few are chosen", many of those called to justification will not persevere as Jn 15:2 explains.

Earlier, you agreed some Christians do not persevere in the Faith, but even give it up entirely. Mat 24:13 says these were not saved.

To make it real clear, I believe those who receive the Grace of Justification, plus the Grace of Perseverance, will never fall away.

The Lord is speaking of these in Jn 10, and He says they will not fall away. Those in Jn 15 who fell away did not have perseverance.

Agreed, Scripture is not contradicted. But a wrong interpretation can be contradicted.

If we still disagree, we may have to agree to disagree. God Bless.

Be the Peace, will reply to you subsequently. God Bless.

XavierJesusLovesIndia · May 25, 2022

Magenta said:

Since this isn't the thread topic, maybe we should discuss in another thread? It may take the discussion off topic.

But anyway, I will answer for the record. And I must say, Anti-Catholic Protestants lie about Catholics in ways worse than Atheists and Agnostics sometimes. Sad. https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/the-myth-of-the-spanish-inquisition

"Many Catholics squirm at the very mention of the Spanish Inquisition, oftentimes conceding to claims that it was the most brutal time in Church history. But was it really as brutal as it is often described?
If you have never seen the BBC documentary The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition, I highly recommend it. At a little over forty-five minutes, it summarizes the most recent scholarship about the “Black Legend,” how it began, and why it persists.
Here are just a few of the more interesting points covered in the documentary:

The “Black Legend” began as an anti-Spanish propaganda campaign that succeeded largely because of the invention of the printing press. The Inquisition was the prime target.
Inquisitors were not fanatical priests as they are often portrayed. In fact, many of them were not priests at all but legal experts trained in Spanish schools.
Contrary to popular belief, torture was rarely used. It was used less by the Inquisition than it was in the tribunals of other countries throughout Europe at the time.
Stories about cruel torture methods used by the Inquisitors and the terrible conditions in which prisoners were kept were completely falsified. The Inquisition actually had the best jails in Spain.
Prisoners of secular courts would actually blaspheme so that they could be transferred to Inquisition prisons and escape the maltreatment of the secular prisons.
Persecuting witchcraft was a craze in Europe at the time, and secular courts were not tolerant of these kinds of offenses. The accused were often burned at the stake. The Inquisition, on the other hand, declared witchcraft a delusion. No one could be tried for it or burned at the stake.
The Inquisition was virtually powerless in rural areas.
In the entire sixteenth century, the Inquisition in Spain executed only about 50 people, which is contrary to the “Black Legend,” which numbers the executions in the hundreds of thousands.
Of all the Inquisitions together throughout Europe, scholars estimate that the number of people executed ranged somewhere between 3,000 and 5,000. That averages, at most, about fourteen people per year throughout the entire continent over a period of 350 years.

The entire documentary is available on Youtube."

Magenta · May 25, 2022

Some persons today are claiming that this figure of 50 million has no basis in fact and is an exaggeration based on anti-Catholic sentiment. Therefore it is of interest to find out how this figure was originally computed in order to evaluate its reliability. The study I have linked to reveals some aspects of history that are being neglected today and also gives us an insight into the extent to which the true history of religion is being lost. This study also shows how some of the other figures were computed.

The time and place of the major persecutions contributing to the 50 million figure have been determined with reasonable confidence. It remains to estimate numbers killed in each of these persecutions and show that they add up to 50 million. Although it is not yet possible to give a full accounting, one can assign reasonable totals to these persecutions that do add up to 50 million. From source.

FreeGrace2 · May 25, 2022

XavierJesusLovesIndia said:

Hi Free Grace.

To be clear, I don't believe Christ, or the Bible, contradicts itself. I believe Christ is the Truth, and the Bible is the Inerrant and Inspired Word of the Living God. I believe the Bible contradicts the OSAS Interpretation, in multiple passages, some of which I cited earlier.

I cited Jn 15:2 in the OP itself, here it is again, up to vs 6: "2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned"

Both vs 2 and vs 6 reiterate that branches in Christ, i.e. truly justified, can be "taken away" by the Father. If they do not abide, they are cast forth as a branch. In addition Mat 13:20-21 and Mat 24:12-13 argue against OSAS.

I can say the same. "Ok, so you DON'T believe what Jesus said in John 15:2-6 [or Mat 13:20-21; 24:12-13; Rev 2:10 etc]. Well, that's just real sad". Instead, I recognize you have a different interpretation.

I gave you my interpretation of John 10. There the Lord is speaking of His elect, those who persevere, not just those who are justified.

I believe Justification+Perseverance=Salvation, as I explained. You believe Justification=Salvation, and all the justified will persevere.

As the Lord said "Many are called, but few are chosen", many of those called to justification will not persevere as Jn 15:2 explains.

Earlier, you agreed some Christians do not persevere in the Faith, but even give it up entirely. Mat 24:13 says these were not saved.

To make it real clear, I believe those who receive the Grace of Justification, plus the Grace of Perseverance, will never fall away.

The Lord is speaking of these in Jn 10, and He says they will not fall away. Those in Jn 15 who fell away did not have perseverance.

Agreed, Scripture is not contradicted. But a wrong interpretation can be contradicted.

If we still disagree, we may have to agree to disagree. God Bless.

Be the Peace, will reply to you subsequently. God Bless.

Magenta · May 25, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

It's not clear if you said the above or not

Any who, 1 John 2:19 says the same thing, albeit without using the word "saved."

1 John 2:19

FreeGrace2 · May 25, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:
To be real clear, this position is really the position of Jesus Christ Himself. Do you believe what I quoted from Him or not?

It seems you view some sins worse than others and will result in loss of salvation. But you don't have clear verses. And you CAN'T have such verses, because what Jesus said NAILS THE DOOR SHUT on loss of salvation. It isn't true, or Jesus is lying.

What's your choice here?

XavierJesusLovesIndia said:

OK, that's a good start!

Again,

OK then, I must assume that you really have no idea what Jesus said so plainly in John 10:28. Because what He said is clearly and plainly eternal security.

He gives eternal life, and the recipient shall never perish. If you can prove He didn't say that, please proceed.

Beyond that, I reject any interpretation or explanation of Scripture that is claimed to teach loss of salvation.

Actually, no "interpretation" is required to understand what Jesus said in John 10:28.

And because the verse is so simple and straightforward, you have to prove to me that Jesus didn't say that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. Good luck with that.

Nope.

Yep. You are a faith PLUS works kind of guy. I flatly reject that.

Has nothing to do with getting saved or losing salvation.

Since you didn't quote the verse, I will, to see if your statement agrees with what the verse says.
"but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."

Did you bother to read the whole context? Or just land on this single verse and try to make a doctrine out of it?

So, here's the actual context for v.13

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you.
5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.
6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.
7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.
10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,
11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,
13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

The context is the "end of the age" (v.3) and Christ's Second Advent. Then, v.4-12 describes the Great Tribulation. So v.13 is in the context of the 7 year tribulation. v.13 has NO application to everyone. Only those who will be IN the tribulation.

Well, God doesn't gift "perseverance" to anyone. In fact, the NT encourages and admonishes believers to persevere. It is a choice that all believers must make.

Because John 10:28 is so clearly worded, you are going to have to prove to me that my understanding is incorrect.

I hope you won't just give up. Rather, please prove to me that John 10:28 doesn't mean what it says.

I don't want to be wrong any more than you want to be wrong.

So help me out here, and tell me what Jesus meant in John 10:28.

FreeGrace2 · May 25, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:
Earlier, you agreed some Christians do not persevere in the Faith, but even give it up entirely. Mat 24:13 says these were not saved.

Magenta said:

Of course I didn't "say" this, but I did agree about not all Christians persevering in the faith.

1 John 2:19 could have easily been written describing the "believers of the Pharisee party" in Acts 15:1-5. They were in dispute between Paul and Barnabas over circumcision. Similar to the baptizers of today, demanding water baptism for salvation, indwelling of the Spirit, and some even demanding it for resurrection!!

One of the reasons there are so many demoninations and theological systems today among evangelicals is because of faulty understanding of Scripture. Probably many who disagree with each other are truly saved, but are divided because of "different interpretations".

My basic method of Bible study is the Berean method. When I engage with someone with a different view or doctrine or theological grid, I do what the Bereans did. "Search the Scriptures daily to see if what (fill in the blank) said."

This has served me very well. Many posters simply get frustrated and quit posting to me because they can't provide verses that say what they claim.

Col 4:6 - Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

1 Peter 3:15 - But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

I AM prepared and know how to answer everyone. My answers are internally consistent and fit with Scripture.

Many of those with different views cannot (or will not) answer my questions. Tells you everything.

And I tell them, "truth ALWAYS has an answer to questions." Which is a challenge for them to provide answers since they think they have the truth. They generally just give up finally.

Magenta · May 25, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

My apologies, as I cannot determine what you are attempting to convey.

Perhaps it escaped your attention that the post I quoted was... messed up. Either that, or you said nothing in response to Xavier.

FreeGrace2 · May 25, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:
Earlier, you agreed some Christians do not persevere in the Faith, but even give it up entirely. Mat 24:13 says these were not saved.

Of course I didn't "say" this, but I did agree about not all Christians persevering in the faith.

Magenta said:

No, it didn't escape my attention. Seems a lot of posts get out of format or something. I recall the first line in my quote above was from the other posts.

The second line was from me. I do agree that not all Christians persevere in the faith.

Persevering in the faith is point 5 in Calvinism. It used to mean "preservation" as in eternal security, but seems some or most have switched over to "perseverance", which is different than eternal security.

The reason I believe that some Christians may not persevere in the faith is because the Bible commands and encourages believers to persevere in the faith.

Acts 11:23 - When he arrived and saw what the grace of God had done, he was glad and encouraged them all to remain true to the Lord with all their hearts.

Acts 14:22 - strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. “We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God,” they said.

If the Calvinist point that all true believers WILL persevere in the faith, then neither of the above verses would be necessary.

And what would be the point of telling someone who only thought they were saved the 2 verses above? You can't "encourage" an unbeliever to become a believer by "remaining true to the Lord or faith" since they don't have either.

The unfortunate thing is that many equate "not remaining true" or "falling away" with losing salvation, but that is merely presumption.

Without any verse that says this in plain words, there is no reason to presume it.

That's how I roll.

Carry_Your_Name · May 25, 2022

peldom10 said:

If OSAS is not true, then Peter, your "first pope" relinquished his gift of salvation when he denied Jesus three times. The truth is, indeed, he was never saved - during three and half years of the Lord's ministry, and he was STILL not saved even when he saw the risen Lord who personally restored him by asking him to tend his flock three times. Only was he saved when he received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

That should tell you something. You could be a devout parishioner doing charitable works and sharing the gospel all your life, you could be as passionate as Peter who exalted Jesus as the Christ and swore to follow him everywhere, but until the baptizing of the Holy Spirit, you're never saved. As Jesus said, "I never knew you!'

FreeGrace2 · May 25, 2022

Carry_Your_Name said:

One doesn't need to go to the "pope" regarding salvation.

In FACT, Peter WAS saved way before he denied Jesus 3 times. Proof? Sure.

John 6-
64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him.
65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.
68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

Those who believe that Peter wasn't saved until Pentecost simply do not believe the Bible. Or know it.

This is what Paul taught believers in Gal 3
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?
5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

Furthermore, Jesus breathed on the disciples/apostles the Holy Spirit before He ascended to heaven.

John 20-
On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.
Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

Do you believe that Peter didn't receive the Holy Spirit when Jesus breathed on THEM?

Believers receive the Holy Spirit WHEN they believe the gospel message are are saved, regenerated (born again) and justified.

Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

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