Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

[ResidentAlien]

fair point. I suppose in the end it all boils down to who you trust your salvation in the efforts of the cross or your own efforts. Does one believe in the finished works of the cross or do they rely on their works to keep their salvation?

This line of argument is misleading. Just because the work of the cross is "finished" that doesn't mean we can say a few magic words, join the club, and never have to worry about getting voted out. It's precisely because of Christ's work on the cross that we persevere. We must take up our own cross and follow Him.

 

[JAPOV]

Chapter I: "I Have now to consider the subject of perseverance with greater care; for in the former book also I said some things on this subject when I was discussing the beginning of faith. I assert, therefore, that the perseverance by which we persevere in Christ even to the end is the gift of God;

You cannot EQUATE perseverance with the SPIRIT. Without the Spirit there is no perseverance, because IT'S THE SPIRIT THAT PERSEVERES. Our gift is FAITH!

Strictly speaking, it is not "salvation" that can be lost. It is Justification/Sanctification that can be lost.

No... Once given the gift of FAITH, we have absolutely NO CONTROL over the SPIRIT.
Ephesians 2;
8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Can you explain Hebrews 10:29? It speaks of those truly Sanctified by the Blood of Christ who fell away.

26For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

Your own knowledge and will is USELESS! That's why what God accomplished on the cross was so necessary.

They did not lose Salvation (Justification+Perseverance), they lost Sanctification alone, which they once had.

No... They were not led by the SPIRIT! Only their own knowledge! They were never sanctified!

Regarding John 10, there the Lord is speaking of those He gives the Gift of Perseverance. These will never perish.

1“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. 2But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.

There is no gift of perseverance... ONLY FAITH, BY WHICH WE RECEIVE THE SPIRIT!

Recall that the Lord had said: "Many are called, but few are chosen". Many are called to Justification, but few are chosen for Perseverance. I think Calvin may have wanted to follow Augustine, but unfortunately he confused Justification and Perseverance.

No... He confused them with FAITH and SPIRIT.

 

[kenallen]

Why would someone want to fallow Calvin or Augustine? They are both men both have died and neither rose from the grave. There spirit is on one side of the gulf or the other.

 

[BeeThePeace]

Py

No. You must remain in the state of grace in order to have salvation. A person becomes saved when they receive the sacrament of baptism which removes the original sin in which everyone is born with. Baptism is usually done when an infant is a few months old and after baptism, one is born again, and one must maintain that state of grace. Committing a mortal sin (sin unto death) cuts you completely off from God and if one was to die in the state of moral sin, then their name will not be in the book of life and will be cast into the lake of fire. If one is in the state of mortal sin, they must repent, which means that they must receive the sacrament of penance (go to confession and do the assigned penance) as well as be truly sorry for one's sins and promise not to sin anymore to be restored back to the state of grace.

It is vital to inform anyone reading the opinion above that the opinion is unique to the Roman Catholic church.

It is not a representation at all of the teachings,examples, or practices of Jesus Christ during his earthly ministry. Or of his Apostles after Jesus returned to heaven.

 

[Blain]

This line of argument is misleading. Just because the work of the cross is "finished" that doesn't mean we can say a few magic words, join the club, and never have to worry about getting voted out. It's precisely because of Christ's work on the cross that we persevere. We must take up our own cross and follow Him.

There is nothing misleading about it finnished means finnished anything more than that is addiing to it. So if you try to keep your salvation by your own efforts you are trying to add to the finnished efforts of the cross, I am not saying we should not do what we are told to do in scripture I am simply saying as far as salvation goes that is already secure set in stone

 

[ResidentAlien]

There is nothing misleading about it finnished means finnished anything more than that is addiing to it. So if you try to keep your salvation by your own efforts you are trying to add to the finnished efforts of the cross, I am not saying we should not do what we are told to do in scripture I am simply saying as far as salvation goes that is already secure set in stone

I don't try to "keep" my salvation, I try to finish the race so I can be saved. "But he who endures to the end shall be saved."—Matthew 24:13

You see it as something set in stone and can never be changed. But the scriptures point a quite different picture: Yes, we are saved. But we are also being saved and will be saved. But it's the Spirit from start to finish; not anything we can do. He gives us faith to keep going, faith in the Lord's finished work. But we still have free will to reject Him, that's very clear in scripture.

 

[peldom10]

fair point. I suppose in the end it all boils down to who you trust your salvation in the efforts of the cross or your own efforts. Does one believe in the finished works of the cross or do they rely on their works to keep their salvation?

The cross as represented here;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Luke 3;33 KJV .... “And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;”

Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Mrark 1;4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

 

[peldom10]

There is nothing misleading about it finnished means finnished anything more than that is addiing to it. So if you try to keep your salvation by your own efforts you are trying to add to the finnished efforts of the cross, I am not saying we should not do what we are told to do in scripture I am simply saying as far as salvation goes that is already secure set in stone

You, my soul, are mixing God's grace with human frailness.
We are human...remember?

 

[Magenta]

The cross as represented here;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Luke 3;33 KJV .... “And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;”

Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Mrark 1;4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

You have made pretty much the same post close to 60 times in the last month alone

 

[peldom10]

I don't try to "keep" my salvation, I try to finish the race so I can be saved. "But he who endures to the end shall be saved."—Matthew 24:13

You see it as something set in stone and can never be changed. But the scriptures point a quite different picture: Yes, we are saved. But we are also being saved and will be saved. But it's the Spirit from start to finish; not anything we can do. He gives us faith to keep going, faith in the Lord's finished work. But we still have free will to reject Him, that's very clear in scripture.

You are just wrong...that is not scripture.
On earth we are born again only.
God judges us after physical death and then we will granted eternal salvation ...saved...or turned away as......... lost.

I doubt God appreciates anyone on earth trying to pre-empt His proclaimed right to judge.

 

[Blain]

You, my soul, are mixing God's grace with human frailness.
We are human...remember?

How do you mean?

 

[Blain]

I don't try to "keep" my salvation, I try to finish the race so I can be saved. "But he who endures to the end shall be saved."—Matthew 24:13

You see it as something set in stone and can never be changed. But the scriptures point a quite different picture: Yes, we are saved. But we are also being saved and will be saved. But it's the Spirit from start to finish; not anything we can do. He gives us faith to keep going, faith in the Lord's finished work. But we still have free will to reject Him, that's very clear in scripture.

That isn't the picture i see

Romans 8:38-39





King James Version








38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord
It seems to me nothing can take us out of his love and it is in his love that we find our salvation is it not?

 

[Magenta]

That isn't the picture i see
Romans 8:38-39 (KJV)

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord
It seems to me nothing can take us out of his love and it is in his love that we find our salvation is it not?

Romans 8:38-39 + Psalm 91:11

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Your comments are purely self serving and not for witness of God's word. .

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Free Grace said:
Also, anyone who believes they have a verse that does indicate that salvation can be lost are basically saying that the Bible is internally contradicted.

Strictly speaking, it is not "salvation" that can be lost. It is Justification/Sanctification that can be lost.

Kinda like word games. To be saved is to be justified. They cannot be separated. And the bottom line issue is salvation.

Can you explain Hebrews 10:29? It speaks of those truly Sanctified by the Blood of Christ who fell away.

Yes, I can. The Bible does say in various places that people have fallen away. Does that mean salvation/justification? No, it does not.

It means they quit believing, or simply rebelled against obedience toward God. And these things lead some to react by saying they can't possibly still be saved.

They did not lose Salvation (Justification+Perseverance), they lost Sanctification alone, which they once had.

I don't know what this means. I find two kinds of sanctification in the Bible.

1. positional sanctification is the sanctification of the believer on the basis of being IN UNION with Christ. Eph 2 is full of "in Him", "in Christ", etc that reflects this kind of sanctification.
2. experiential sanctification is the experience of spiritual growth, or lack thereof.

Regarding John 10, there the Lord is speaking of those He gives the Gift of Perseverance. These will never perish.

Excuse me, but there is no mention of "perseverance" in John 10, and no mention of it as a gift.

In v.28 Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. And eternal life is a gift, a free gift. Once given, the recipient shall never perish. Not ever. No never.

Recall that the Lord had said: "Many are called, but few are chosen". Many are called to Justification, but few are chosen for Perseverance. I think Calvin may have wanted to follow Augustine, but unfortunately he confused Justification and Perseverance.

God Bless.

Throughout the NT there are commands to "continue in the faith" or "remain in the faith", etc. Perseverance isn't automatic or guaranteed for the believer. Many do NOT persevere in the faith. They give up. They leave the faith; stop attending church, stop reading their Bible, if they ever did, stop praying, etc.

None of this results in loss of salvation/eternal life/positional justification.

Once saved, always saved.

Once belief, never condemned.

 

[FreeGrace2]

peldom10 said:
The cross as represented here;

Baptism is Required

Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
etc/etc/etc/etc/

You have made pretty much the same post close to 60 times in the last month alone

And across a number of threads. The infection spreads.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You are just wrong...that is not scripture.

After saying this to another poster, you then say this:

"On earth we are born again only.
God judges us after physical death and then we will granted eternal salvation ...saved...or turned away as......... lost."
Yet, you have NO SCRIPTURE that says any of this.

This is an example of a pot calling a kettle black.

I doubt God appreciates anyone on earth trying to pre-empt His proclaimed right to judge.

It seems you don't even understand the purpose of God's judgment, for either believer or unbeliever. In both cases, what is judged is what the person has done, called works or deeds.

2 Cor 5:10 - For we (believers) must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Rev 20:11-14
The Judgment of the Dead
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

How 'bout that! Everyone will be judged on their works/deeds.

Did you know that? Do you know why?

 

[Runningman]

Another great reason why the rapture must be pre-trib. Otherwise, many would deny their faith in Christ and accept the mark of the beast.

If the rapture is pre-trib then why are there Christians in the great tribulation who aren’t raptured?

 

[Runningman]

The cross as represented here;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Luke 3;33 KJV .... “And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;”

Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Mrark 1;4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

Amen. I appreciate what you’re doing. You’re a stalwart.

May God bless you.

 

[Beckie]

Okay, if you would be so kind as to point out where it says or even implies we lose our free will I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong.

If you would be so kind as to point out where it says or even implies we have free will.