Do we stress baptism enough?

[Pilgrimshope]

I think that people major in the minors way too much.

And they absolutely can't love God more than themselves.
They are incapable of loving their neighbors more than themselves.

And then what's worse is they heap legalisms on others. Don't touch, don't taste, don't look...and they appear to have some sort of wisdom but offer no value for getting closer to God. In fact they get you further from the truth than you were before.

and there are many who just don’t want to hear the truth

wisest man in the ot

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

New Testament revelation of how he’s going to do that spoken by the apostle everyone seems to exalt to the church

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

sometimes the truth is just rejected because we don’t want it to be true. So we call it legalism but it’s really just the truth

 

[ResidentAlien]

And then what's worse is they heap legalisms on others.

What exactly do you mean by legalism? Is obedience to the gospel of Christ legalism?

 

[JaumeJ]

and there are many who just don’t want to hear the truth

wisest man in the ot

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

New Testament revelation of how he’s going to do that spoken by the apostle everyone seems to exalt to the church

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

sometimes the truth is just rejected because we don’t want it to be true. So we call it legalism but it’s really just the truth

I hope all read this, but many will have to suffice. God bless you.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I hope all read this, but many will have to suffice. God bless you.

sadly I think ( hopefully wrongly ) for most it will not sink in . how good it is to be warned ahead of time so we can repent and have our transgressions remitted.

faith requires us to hear and accept the truth like Noah God told him he was going to destroy the earth it wasn’t pleasant to hear , but because he accepted it as the truth he received faith and it saved him and his family

“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we would hear out the coming judgement God will move believers to safety and remission of sins but if we reject it we’re deceiving our own selves and will be as those in Noah’s day who didn’t hear the warning before and believe
God bless you also ❤️

 

[JohnDB]

What exactly do you mean by legalism? Is obedience to the gospel of Christ legalism?

Nope...

But when the supposed gospel is Jesus PLUS ___________'' (fill in the blank with whatever) you have destroyed the Gospel message.

Of course a person needs to change their mind about living a sinful lifestyle...that's a given. But to declare on God's behalf that they must drink their beverages with a pinky extended in order to be saved is no different than making a baptism requisite for salvation.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Nope...

But when the supposed gospel is Jesus PLUS ___________'' (fill in the blank with whatever) you have destroyed the Gospel message.

Of course a person needs to change their mind about living a sinful lifestyle...that's a given. But to declare on God's behalf that they must drink their beverages with a pinky extended in order to be saved is no different than making a baptism requisite for salvation.

It kinda sounds like you want it both ways: We mustn't add anything yet we must add repentance and a change of behavior. Maybe you want to add the things you think should be added and not anything else.

 

[JohnDB]

It kinda sounds like you want it both ways: We mustn't add anything yet we must add repentance and a change of behavior. Maybe you want to add the things you think should be added and not anything else.

Ummmm
How you got that from anything I have said is completely outside of normal logic to me. There are no roads to get there in my mind.

Faith is belief.
If a person changes their mind (repentance) about their behavior and believes IN God and Jesus. Not just their existence but the message they have been trying to get across to humanity from the beginning...their behavior/lifestyle changes as a natural extension of that belief.

If you believe that a Russian missile is going to hit your home tomorrow afternoon... you act on that belief. Your normal behavior is changed because of that belief. You don't sleep late in your bed and dally at the breakfast table tomorrow.... you begin to gather your valuable possessions and move them to a perceived safe location.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

[

Nope...

But when the supposed gospel is Jesus PLUS ___________'' (fill in the blank with whatever) you have destroyed the Gospel message.

Of course a person needs to change their mind about living a sinful lifestyle...that's a given. But to declare on God's behalf that they must drink their beverages with a pinky extended in order to be saved is no different than making a baptism requisite for salvation.

doesn’t the gospel make plain what’s needed for salvation ?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

Is accepting the saviors word on the subject of how salvation works making things up ? Or should we go ahead and trust Jesus and what he said is about salvation ?

 

[JohnDB]

[


doesn’t the gospel make plain what’s needed for salvation ?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

Is accepting the saviors word on the subject of how salvation works making things up ? Or should we go ahead and trust Jesus and what he said is about salvation ?

The Book of Mark...
Who wrote it?
Who was the primary recipient?
What was the reason he wrote it?

 

[peldom10]

I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that
there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and
in the same judgment. For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s
people, that there are quarrels among you. Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying,
“I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” Has Christ been divided?
Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank
God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one would say you
were baptized in my name. Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that,
I do not know whether I baptized any other. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to
preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

Baptism is Required page ;


Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).​

 

[peldom10]

Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the
calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience,
showing tolerance for one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit
in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one
hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all Who
is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:1-6)

If you mean baptism is required you finally got it right;

Baptism is Required page;


Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

​

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;​

....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth​

​

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.​

​

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.​

​

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.​

​

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.​

​

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).​

 

[Amanuensis]

Probably because they don't understand how much it helps people in their decision process to repent and make a commitment to live differently from that day forward. The whole act of baptism does a lot to ignite faith and set them on the momentum of a renewed mindset that is less likely to second guess themeselves when all they do is say a private prayer that no one even knows they have made.

It should be obvious that we need to follow this clear biblical directive as part of our repentance but thousands of years of church corruption has not been fully reformed yet in this area.

I believe that is the reason churches don't handle it correctly. They are following the traditions of churches thinking that it must not be that critical to reform it or we would have already done so. Sort of a "oh well...people are still getting saved... it's not that imporant" attitude. But the reality is that many more people would probably be getting saved if we did it the way they did it in the bible, same day and same urgency.

I am not a lead pastor yet but when I am I plan to have some sort of method to baptize new converts every Sunday. Something practical.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Organizations like the Salvation Army don't even teach or practice baptism at all.

Interesting. I had no idea that the Salvation Army was a faith-based organization. I've been on this planet for quite a few decades and have "always" known about them, but I had never heard of this . . . makes sense I suppose.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I am not a lead pastor yet but when I am I plan to have some sort of method to baptize new converts every Sunday. Something practical.

That would be great. I remember, as a child, seeing people get baptized and was somewhat mesmerized by it. It was such a Holy and Reverent thing to witness. Four decades later, I returned to the same church and no one from my past was still attending. The old baptismal had been eliminated and the church was converted into essentially a New Age approach.

In the last several years of attending various churches (one of which was for 7 months straight), I didn't witness a single baptism. There were no facilities to offer baptism. Today's modern-day church is eliminating the concept altogether. Instead of offering Holy Baptism, we're now being offered earplugs to protect our hearing from the christian rock concert that's about to ensue.

 

[Cabrillo]

That would be great. I remember, as a child, seeing people get baptized and was somewhat mesmerized by it. It was such a Holy and Reverent thing to witness. Four decades later, I returned to the same church and no one from my past was still attending. The old baptismal had been eliminated and the church was converted into essentially a New Age approach.

In the last several years of attending various churches (one of which was for 7 months straight), I didn't witness a single baptism. There were no facilities to offer baptism. Today's modern-day church is eliminating the concept altogether. Instead of offering Holy Baptism, we're now being offered earplugs to protect our hearing from the christian rock concert that's about to ensue.

I'm a firm believer in public baptism it's a public testimony. I'd rather see people baptized in a river, lake or beach so the public can witness the symbolism and public acknowledgement that our sins have been washed away.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I'm a firm believer in public baptism it's a public testimony. I'd rather see people baptized in a river, lake or beach so the public can witness the symbolism and public acknowledgment that our sins have been washed away.

Brilliant point. Being baptized immediately after the death of Christ was risky business. Men were leaving their families without a husband and father for turning against Judaism . . . and they knew the risks involved, but made that proclamation of Faith anyway.

 

[Cabrillo]

Brilliant point. Being baptized immediately after the death of Christ was risky business. Men were leaving their families without a husband and father for turning against Judaism . . . and they knew the risks involved, but made that proclamation of Faith anyway.

The first non denominational christian church I attended did baptisms' in a lagoon. We sang hymns had a picnic, a volley ball game and handed out tracks and witnessed. Spread and watered the the seeds.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Interesting. I had no idea that the Salvation Army was a faith-based organization. I've been on this planet for quite a few decades and have "always" known about them, but I had never heard of this . . . makes sense I suppose.

It's the "Salvation" Army.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

It's the "Salvation" Army.

It sure is . . . and no one has ever equated it to the "salvation" of Christ until I read your post.

@Amanuensis can laugh all he wants, but here is the first definition of "salvation" in an online dictionary:

"preservation or deliverance from harm, ruin, or loss."

Living [in] the world, I assumed that "salvation" from "their" perspective was per the definition above. Good grief.

 

[ResidentAlien]

It sure is . . . and no one has ever equated it to the "salvation" of Christ until I read your post.

@Amanuensis can laugh all he wants, but here is the first definition of "salvation" in an online dictionary:

"preservation or deliverance from harm, ruin, or loss."

Living [in] the world, I assumed that "salvation" from "their" perspective was per the definition above. Good grief.

I'm sure you're saying something very profound; unfortunately profundity isn't my strong suit.