Do we need the Church buliding today?

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soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
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#21
You make a mistake if you think about a home church in the first century as your living room group meeting in the 21 century. Houses had courtyards, and some were capable of hosting a couple of hundred people in their courtyard. This was a common type of home church in the first century. Surprise! This is the value of reading New Testament Survey books designed for Bible College. Learning the culture and customs of the first century will shed light on many scriptures.

When Paul talked about teaching them from house to house it did not mean he went door knocking like a Jehovah Witness. It meant that he taught them in these Church gatherings that met in individual houses in the court yards. It does not mean that the group was automatically small because it was in a house. If it was one hundred or two hundred people meeting in the house courtyard it was very much like any local church today. There were leaders, elders, overseers. There was worship, doctrinal teaching.

They did not meet at synagogues. Jews taught the Law in synagagoes on the sabbath. Paul when first going to a new town to evangelize (where there was not yet a church) would go there to persuade them that Jesus was the Christ but was eventually asked to stop coming and was banned from the synagogue, by then he usually had made some converts, these converts meet on the first day of the week, wherever they could find a convenient meeting place. A business, a school, a house with a large courtyard.

Christian churches did not meet in Jewish synagogues. They may have adopted some similar form of structure of the meeting service based on the synagogue but it was generally based on singing of hymns, teaching the scriptures, which included Pauls letters, and other New testament writings as they were developed. Very much like todays Spiritual churches that are continuing to be planted world wide.
The true church is undergoing a revival. God's method has always been the church, particularly the local assembly and it is a time in history to get involved in one and not watch it on the internet.

The 1st church was not a place one went for information. It is the family of God living this New Life together and includes all of the real life rubbing shoulders stuff that your natural family requires. It can't be done on Facebook alone.
It's important to remember not everyone in 1st century Palestine, Jerusalem, etc... had courtyards that could host a hundred people. Those yards were properties of the well off. And they like today were the minority number of persons.
One room peasant houses were the norm.
 

laymen

Senior Member
Apr 6, 2014
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#22
You make a mistake if you think about a home church in the first century as your living room group meeting in the 21 century. Houses had courtyards, and some were capable of hosting a couple of hundred people in their courtyard. This was a common type of home church in the first century. Surprise! This is the value of reading New Testament Survey books designed for Bible College. Learning the culture and customs of the first century will shed light on many scriptures.

Interesting ^

When Paul talked about teaching them from house to house it did not mean he went door knocking like a Jehovah Witness. It meant that he taught them in these Church gatherings that met in individual houses in the court yards. It does not mean that the group was automatically small because it was in a house. If it was one hundred or two hundred people meeting in the house courtyard it was very much like any local church today. There were leaders, elders, overseers. There was worship, doctrinal teaching.
They did not meet at synagogues. Jews taught the Law in synagagoes on the sabbath. Paul when first going to a new town to evangelize (where there was not yet a church) would go there to persuade them that Jesus was the Christ but was eventually asked to stop coming and was banned from the synagogue, by then he usually had made some converts, these converts meet on the first day of the week, wherever they could find a convenient meeting place. A business, a school, a house with a large courtyard.
Act 17:17 Paul went to synagogue to teach to both Jews and Greeks
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#23
When Paul went into a new town he would go to the synagogues on the sabbath and as a fellow Jew who was also a Pharisee and who was trained by the Sandhedrin member Gamaliel, he knew how to communicate with these synagogue leaders. They would ask him to share or teach on the scriptures scheduled for that sabbaths reading. He would teach from the scriptures that Jesus was the Christ. He got different reactions from different towns, sometimes they listened for several sabbaths and many believed. Eventually, Jewish religious leaders who came from Jerusalem or others would stir the crowd against Paul and they would ban him from that synagogue. But by that time he had converts. This was Pauls method of church planting and is studied by missionaries to this day. Church planting was Paul's method for evangelizing a town or area. The new converts who were usually Jews and Greeks that heard him in the synagogue began meeting somewhere else (house churches, was a common method) and they would meet on the first day of the week. If they were Jews many continued going to synagogues that were not hostile to them on the sabbath.

Greeks / gentiles, who were called "friends of God" or who were attracted to the Jewish religion and who saw and respected the righteous living taught by the scriptures were allowed in many synagogues. There they heard the message Paul preached and followed him when he was banned from the synagogues.

Today starting a home bible study would indeed be a great way to plant a church in a town that needed one. It would not take long for the church to swell to a size that required more than a living room however. In America there is an abundance of options. From theaters that are closed on Sunday and will rent to churches, to hotel conference rooms, empty store fronts, or cheap metal buildings that can be erected.

The building does not need to look like a cathedral. Ornate buildings were started by the Roman state attempt to honor Christianity and give it government support and funding. This did not work out well and was never God's method. We need a meeting place but I don't think it should be adorned with religious art and crosses etc. But that is just me.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#24
Good question. The answer is of course that the Greek word for "Church" is "Ekklesia". "Ekklesia" means "GATHERING of the called-out ones". In Ephesians Chapter 4 and 1st Corinthians Chapter 14 we can see that the Church is only built when the gifted ones work "when we come together". That's why God made one Church - one LOCALITY. The Church is GEOGRAPHICAL. Now, the Church is very robustly built. It can GATHER in a big building, which is correctly called "a meeting hall." The Church can gather in a house. Or it can gather in a tent. But its construction is so that it can gather on a snowbound slope in Siberia, if the right clothes are worn.

But however convenient zoom.us is, it is not a GATHERING. It is a "staying away" from the Gathering. The next thing we have to discuss then, is; Is the Lord in a zoom.us video "non-gathering"? He said that where "two or more are GATHERED in my Name - I am there. Nobody is GATHERED at a zoom conference. They are scattered.
The ' two or three gathered is to do with 'agreeing on a matter ' . Not that Jesus is with us in small groups or large . He's within each of us personally.
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#25
The ' two or three gathered is to do with 'agreeing on a matter ' . Not that Jesus is with us in small groups or large . He's within each of us personally.
The context is "agreeing on a matter in regard to the keys of the kingdom". But this does not detract from the contents of Matthew 18:20;

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

The sense of the grammar is; "You must gather together to excommunicate a Church member. And you must gather together to ask a petition. FOR (or because), when two or three (anywhere and at any time) are GATHERED as the Church of Christ, I am there. to support and judge the situation with you"

Maybe the opposite illustrates it better. Three Christians gather together to conspire to kick a brother out of the Church because his prophesies are uncomfortable. Is Jesus present then? No. "In my Name" means "what my name stands for", and the Name Jesus is not associated with conspiracy (Ps.138:6).
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#26
The context is "agreeing on a matter in regard to the keys of the kingdom". But this does not detract from the contents of Matthew 18:20;

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

The sense of the grammar is; "You must gather together to excommunicate a Church member. And you must gather together to ask a petition. FOR (or because), when two or three (anywhere and at any time) are GATHERED as the Church of Christ, I am there. to support and judge the situation with you"

Maybe the opposite illustrates it better. Three Christians gather together to conspire to kick a brother out of the Church because his prophesies are uncomfortable. Is Jesus present then? No. "In my Name" means "what my name stands for", and the Name Jesus is not associated with conspiracy (Ps.138:6).
I see it as we are all individually experiencing Jesus being with us at all times .
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#27
a building is just to keep the rain, snow or hot sun out.
Remember where Jesus had his famous sermon...on the mountain. Outside. So everyone could hear and see.

It was only praying that he went inside a closet and shut the door. Though he did go and pray by himself alone on a mountain.

I think having both is a good thing, though there are pros and cons of both inside and outdoor gatherings/assemblies

I personally dont enjoy meetings ALL the time, as they can get boring if they go on forever. But they are important to build up our faith. Its not always possible to carve a quiet time at home and one doesnt always want to see the same people all the time. I think in cities for intorverted people we see so many daily during the week that to add more on top of that can be a bit much. But in rural areas people crave contact and need to see each other.

Also, sheep by nature are gregarious creatures and thers a lot of safety in a herd! Jesus could leave them safe together while he went off for the one that went astray.
 

stepbystep

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2020
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#28
The influence of the synagogue was important. The Scriptures and Christian documents (such as Paul’s letters) were read and expounded (1 Thes. 5:27).1 1 Marshall, I. H. (1996). Worship. In D. R. W. Wood, A. R. Millard, J. I. Packer, & D. J. Wiseman (Eds.), New Bible dictionary (3rd ed., p. 1250). Leicester, England; Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press.

Reason's they had to go to the church was for info but had they of had the internet like we do today , would they of had the need for a synagogue? Most were only meeting in their homes anyways.

What would be the need for a church building today? or should we just meet in homes instead like the old church did for the most part? Because some lived to far from a synagogue, and they did not have the Bible in print like we do today and they did not have the internet.

Meany online churches have come up Due to COVID 19.
It is still important to have a church building today simply because many Congregations are so spread out that Home Services are not practical. As well, there are Congregations that are to large for Home Services.

I see people talking about we should do it the way they did back then, but do not speak about WHY the early Church met in homes. For one thing, they were facing persecution from Rome for being Christians. Beatings, imprisonment, and even death. Another reason is that they were not financially able to build and support a special building for their Church. The main thing though, is as I said about their persecution. Imagine IF they did have a special building? How easy would it have been for Roman Soldiers to wait until the believers were gathered to worship to attack them then?

Church buildings serve more purpose than just fellowship services on Sundays (or whatever day one meets), they can also serve as a focal point for the Congregation to serve the Community around them. As a Food Bank for one. Vacation Bible School. As a place for their children to be Home Schooled rather than going to the Public Schools. And many more reasons, ways to serve God and the Community. YES, they ARE still needed today.

Are they for everyone? Probably not, but they ARE necessary.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#29
zoom meetings are just making the best of a bad situation. also people must remember the distances people need to travel to gather, for many especially in congested cities, traffic needs to be taken into account.

I dont really enjoy zoom meetings they can be. bit restrictive on what you can do, but they are another way of communicating and seeing one another. Of course the best is face to face.

Why Jesus said two or three and not twenty and thirty gathered in his name well, having one on one time is a lot more productive dont you think.
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#30
I see it as we are all individually experiencing Jesus being with us at all times .
In the new Testament, Christ is IN the Christian. The Christian is EVER PRESENT with Christ in the most intimate way. Matthew 18 only promises the GATHERING His presence. So Matthew 18 addresses the FUNCTION of a Church. It needs the whole GATHERING to administer excommunication. See 1st Corinthians 5 as well. So also, it needs the GATHERING of the Church for building up. 1st Corinthians 14:26;

"How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying."
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#31
In the new Testament, Christ is IN the Christian. The Christian is EVER PRESENT with Christ in the most intimate way. Matthew 18 only promises the GATHERING His presence. So Matthew 18 addresses the FUNCTION of a Church. It needs the whole GATHERING to administer excommunication. See 1st Corinthians 5 as well. So also, it needs the GATHERING of the Church for building up. 1st Corinthians 14:26;

"How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying."
I agree with the above . My point was that verse ' Where 2 or 3 are gathered ' is used out of context.
 
Oct 10, 2020
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#32
The influence of the synagogue was important. The Scriptures and Christian documents (such as Paul’s letters) were read and expounded (1 Thes. 5:27).1 1 Marshall, I. H. (1996). Worship. In D. R. W. Wood, A. R. Millard, J. I. Packer, & D. J. Wiseman (Eds.), New Bible dictionary (3rd ed., p. 1250). Leicester, England; Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press.

Reason's they had to go to the church was for info but had they of had the internet like we do today , would they of had the need for a synagogue? Most were only meeting in their homes anyways.

What would be the need for a church building today? or should we just meet in homes instead like the old church did for the most part? Because some lived to far from a synagogue, and they did not have the Bible in print like we do today and they did not have the internet.

Meany online churches have come up Due to COVID 19.
 
Oct 10, 2020
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#33
Do we need the Church buliding today?
Never have needed one before...so why today?
i have posed this question several times before. Home church is the only
way to go. Christianity at its very root is very simple. Read what Jesus said and follow
His lead to the tee. Jesus asked Peter 3 times if he loved Him. Three times
peter said yes, Jesus replied “ Peter feed my sheep.” So how did we take that simple
episode into a money making apperatus that it is today. We have televangelists
flying around in private jets, driving expensive cars and mansions to live in.
there are some pastors calling themselves doctors as if tha bolsters ther faith.
some even buid universities to show students how to suck money out of people.
Jesus called those people hypocrites. Pharisees and saducees. Conspired to kill
jesus because they made God a law which most people couldnt read. So now
we have third millenium pharisees complicating Christ crusified. They have even
made the word of God an idol. They have lost the simple love of God that Jesus died for. They sit and argue about the second coming of christ. Well folks you are going to have to wait until the lion lies down wit the lamb. Love your neighbor as yourself
until God can trust you. If you knew me would you kill me.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#34
Home church is the only way to go.
Not "the only way" but one way to go, especially if you have just a few like-minded Christians. But if you have 100, 1,000, or 10,000 believers in one place, your theory fails.

For any sane Christian to object to a meeting place (other than a home) for the gathering together of believers is not really valid or sensible. At the same time, the place set aside for meetings does not have to be an elaborate cathedral.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#35
zoom meetings are just making the best of a bad situation.
An artificially created bad situation to control how people meet to worship. Now that the governments (at all levels) have had a taste of unlimited power, they will keep the Scamdemic nonsense going on forever. Unless the general population stands up and says "Enough is enough".
 

laymen

Senior Member
Apr 6, 2014
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#36
Really enjoying the feed back! Thanks guys!! Was not sure how most felt about it! Keep it coming!
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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Australia
#37
I would dearly love to see the gatherings of the saints break away from the traditional meeting at several buildings in a town/city to in the homes of the people. There would be gatherings in every street! Talk about penetrating the community!
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#38
I would dearly love to see the gatherings of the saints break away from the traditional meeting at several buildings in a town/city to in the homes of the people. There would be gatherings in every street! Talk about penetrating the community!
Many Spirit Filled Churches today will meet on Sunday in a local building where they can host the entire group and then will also meet in homes during the week in small groups spread out over the city. Members will either host one or go to one near them. It is very popular in the American nondenominational, charismatic, pentecostal, fellowships like the Assemblies of God. I am not sure if Baptists, or Methodists do it also but I don't see why they wouldn't. Just google Churches with home groups near me.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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Australia
#39
Many Spirit Filled Churches today will meet on Sunday in a local building where they can host the entire group and then will also meet in homes during the week in small groups spread out over the city. Members will either host one or go to one near them. It is very popular in the American nondenominational, charismatic, pentecostal, fellowships like the Assemblies of God. I am not sure if Baptists, or Methodists do it also but I don't see why they wouldn't. Just google Churches with home groups near me.
Yes, we do that here in Australia too :) but I'm speaking of it being the norm rather than the exception.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#40
Yes, we do that here in Australia too :) but I'm speaking of it being the norm rather than the exception.
Many churches have also canceled their small group meeting because they say they are not working. They claim that people are not growing in the Word, in character or in close fellowship as intended. I think this is because you can't artificially create the kind of Holy Spirit fellowship in the body of Christ by scheduling small group meetings or making up church programs or following a book on church growth etc. It happens when individuals get on fire with the Holy Spirit and want to get involved in outreach and evangelism. These individuals will meet with like minded individuals and do things to win the lost such as soul winning and outreaches and there they form bonds of brotherhood that spill over to meeting in homes for dinners, birthday parties or "after glow" fellowship to discuss the exciting things that happened on the evangelism outreach. So it comes back to going to the "big church" and getting involved.