Do u think works-salvationists are saved? Will you marry one of them?

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mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#61
Apr 7, 2014
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#61
iymus said:
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

The commandments of God are the works and will of the Father which completes our faith in Christ because
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What do you believe it means to "keep" (Greek word "tereo") the commandments of God? What do you believe "..by works, faith was made complete" means? (James 2:22)

It would be one thing if one does not believe in the new testament but those that do and believe in works believe that
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Do you trust in works as the means of obtaining salvation?

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
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The comparison of the human spirit and faith here converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).
 
iymus

iymus

Junior Member
#62
Feb 15, 2016
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#62
mailmandan said:
What do you believe it means to "keep" (Greek word "tereo") the commandments of God? What do you believe "..by works, faith was made complete" means? (James 2:22)

Do you trust in works as the means of obtaining salvation?

The comparison of the human spirit and faith here converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).
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Accepting Christ encompasses accepting the works and will of the Father. Therefore yes.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#63
Apr 7, 2014
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#63
iymus said:
Accepting Christ encompasses accepting the works and will of the Father. Therefore yes.
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Just as I suspected. You do teach salvation by works. :( So how many works does it take? How many works must you accomplish and "add" as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to "help" Christ save you? :unsure: (Romans 3:24-28)

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. *We are saved FOR good works and not by good works.* (y)
 
NayborBear

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#64
Dec 6, 2015
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A deplorable! (so you know, what "state" I'm in!)
#64
GodsChildforever said:
I know that genuine faith will result in good works..that is what James says..good works is the fruit of Salvation, not the root..To my knowledge, Salvation is a free Gift of God to those who trust in Jesus Alone to get to heaven..
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....and then?
There's THIS:
Matthew 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
 
iymus

iymus

Junior Member
#65
Feb 15, 2016
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#65
mailmandan said:
Just as I suspected. You do teach salvation by works. :( So how many works does it take? How many works must you accomplish and "add" as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to "help" Christ save you? :unsure: (Romans 3:24-28)

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. *We are saved FOR good works and not by good works.* (y)
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and what if I can prove salvation came by works?
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#68
Apr 7, 2014
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#68
John146 said:
Yes, the work of the cross by Jesus Christ.
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Amen! Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not based on the merits of our works.
 
iymus

iymus

Junior Member
#71
Feb 15, 2016
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#71
mailmandan said:
Salvation is obtained apart from the merit of works, yet genuine faith does not remain apart from the presence of works.
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So you are saying Salvation came from no work since apart from merits of work means no work?
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#72
Apr 7, 2014
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#72
iymus said:
So you are saying Salvation came from no work since apart from merits of work means no work?
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Just get to the main point and prove to me from scripture that salvation came from/is by works, in contradiction to (Romans 3:22-28; 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).
 
iymus

iymus

Junior Member
#73
Feb 15, 2016
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#73
mailmandan said:
Just get to the main point and prove to me from scripture that salvation came from works, in contradiction to (Romans 3:22-28; 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).
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but when I asked you plainly, you beat around the bush, Now when I simply asked for confirmation on matters you want me to act on your terms now? Did I not answer you plainly in post 62 above?
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Are you hard of hearing? Did I already not posted in post #60 a partial answer

Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

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Is it not common sense and can it not be seen that salvation came of the works of the Father?

yet you use interpretations of Paul to seemingly diminish his work.

Very ironic you laid out your counterargument in (Romans 3:22-28; 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).[/QUOTE]

HOWEVER!!!! The words of the only true begotten son will never be conformed to any man.

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mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#74
Apr 7, 2014
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#74
iymus said:
but when I asked you plainly, you beat around the bush, Now when I simply asked for confirmation on matters you want me to act on your terms now? Did I not answer you plainly in post 62 above?
--------------------

Are you hard of hearing? Did I already not posted in post #60 a partial answer

Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

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Is it not common sense and can it not be seen that salvation came of the works of the Father?

yet you use interpretations of Paul to seemingly diminish his work.

Very ironic you laid out your counterargument in (Romans 3:22-28; 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).

HOWEVER!!!! The words of the only true begotten son will never be conformed to any man.

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Beat around the bush? Am I hard of hearing? You did not clarify what accepting the works and will of the Father include in regards to obtaining salvation by works. I am not diminishing the works of the Father. You are not making much sense and seem to be playing games. I'm still waiting for a response from you to my post #119,826 in the "Not By Works" thread.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-5992#post-4120867
 
iymus

iymus

Junior Member
#75
Feb 15, 2016
108
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#75
mailmandan said:
Beat around the bush? Am I hard of hearing? You did not clarify what accepting the works and will of the Father include in regards to obtaining salvation by works. I am not diminishing the works of the Father. You are not making much sense and seem to be playing games. I'm still waiting for a response from you to my post #119,826 in the "Not By Works" thread.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-5992#post-4120867
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At the heart of the matter; You said Salvation is not of works. However you are wrong because Salvation is of the works of the Father. You used the writing of Paul to indeed diminish the Fact that Salvation is of works. I asked you because I wanted you to use critical thinking and the volume of the book and not just milk or be narrow minded

Lastly I answered your post. Many of them I may overlook unless reminded.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#76
Apr 7, 2014
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#76
iymus said:
At the heart of the matter; You said Salvation is not of works. However you are wrong because Salvation is of the works of the Father. You used the writing of Paul to indeed diminish the Fact that Salvation is of works. I asked you because I wanted you to use critical thinking and the volume of the book and not just milk or be narrow minded

Lastly I answered your post. Many of them I may overlook unless reminded.
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Are you implying that we are saved by "these" works (works of the Father) and just not "those" works (works not of the Father?). Be more specific. In Ephesians 2:8-9, the apostle Paul clearly stated that we are saved by grace through faith, not of works, so I was not wrong.
 
OneOfHis

OneOfHis

Well-known member
#77
Mar 24, 2019
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#77
GodsChildforever said:
What to do with works-salvationists? Are they saved?Is it just that they believed a false teaching or never saved at all?
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Well a true works salvationist does not trust in Christ to justify them before God.

This person I do not think would be saved or born again.

I believe many who are saved, may still be in a sappling state where they may lack assurance or misunderstand certain aspects of grace.... but when they are faced with judgement wouldn't dare place hope in anything or anyone other than Jesus Christ... they believe in Him

Trust in Him

but maybe are lacking in knowledge and probably suffering from it while still here on earth....


I would never marry a true works salvationist.... This would be torture to be with someone who refuses to submit to the righteousness of Christ and places themselves above others not understanding how works can only justify man before man....
 
OneOfHis

OneOfHis

Well-known member
#78
Mar 24, 2019
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#78
mailmandan said:
Are you implying that we are saved by "these" works (works of the Father) and just not "those" works (works not of the Father?). Be more specific. In Ephesians 2:8-9, the apostle Paul clearly stated that we are saved by grace through faith, not of works, so I was not wrong.
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You were spot on.

This person is trying to use a strawman that pinned your words to specifically say that God's works don't save when in context the meaning behind the words you used could be said as "Our actions will not justify us before God."
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#79
#79
iymus said:
So you are saying Salvation came from no work since apart from merits of work means no work?
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That is right no work... easy concept really.

4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
Romans 4: 4-5
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#80
Feb 15, 2017
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#80
iymus said:
So you are saying Salvation came from no work since apart from merits of work means no work?
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What brought you to Jesus?
When you came to him did you believe you were saved or could be saved?

What were the words you said to him when you accepted him?
Let's reverse that as well.
What did he say to you too accept him?
 
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