Do catholics worship God or the pope?
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Peter never a bishop in Rome
Ccc 841
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
Ccc 841
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
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That is incorrect. Many of us have taken a close look at the Catechism of the Catholic Church. That is your OFFICIAL TEACHING so if it deviates from Scripture, it shows that this church promotes error. It would take a book of perhaps 1,000 pages to carefully dissect every false teaching in it, but those who blindly follow the church of Rome will stay exactly where they are. They are convinced that they are the only true church of Christ.
That is not the Muslim plan of Salvation. It is a statement saying that a good Muslim is not precluded from it because they believe in the God of Abraham. As do the Jews. And all Christians. Our bible teaches us that they would have to accept Jesus, as does yours, because it is the same bible. And in fact there have been many signs and wonders from God in Muslim majority countries that tries to teach them about the divinity of Christ the saviour in an attempt to show them the true path.
No and No. Peter wandered about Jerusalem and the surrounding areas. Nobody really knows where he died. The seat of the Church followed Constantine when he moved to Turkey for a while until it was overthrown by the Islamic invaders (The Hag Sofia is the old Vatican) and the current Vatican existed before and after this. St Peters cathdedral was built after the return of the seat of the church to Rome.
And before you ask me to justify 'church' I am only referring to the hierarchy of the RCC here
I'm not going to re-answer the Islam question.
You are either really bad at reading or are only seeing what you want to see. Where do you people get these crazy ideas from?
And before you ask me to justify 'church' I am only referring to the hierarchy of the RCC here
I'm not going to re-answer the Islam question.
You are either really bad at reading or are only seeing what you want to see. Where do you people get these crazy ideas from?
Like I said, brother--I played a mass on the keyboards in a Catholic church. I worshiped together with Catholics. I have no problem with them being fellow Christians, with the exception that they consider me inferior. Well that and a few doctrines that they should take a fresh look at. But no, I have no problem fellowshipping with you or with any Christian who keeps himself or herself free from "religious competition." 
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Like I said, brother--I played a mass on the keyboards in a Catholic church. I worshiped together with Catholics. I have no problem with them being fellow Christians, with the exception that they consider me inferior. Well that and a few doctrines that they should take a fresh look at. But no, I have no problem fellowshipping with you or with any Christian who keeps himself or herself free from "religious competition."
I definitely don't 100% agree with everything the church teaches, but there is a richness of faith in it that I cannot walk away from either. Put simply, I believe that we're all part of the same body of Christ. I am more than open to respectful questioning on our belief system and I have zero care what other people believe, so long as they see Christ as Lord, God as the Father and the Spirit as the loving, powerful mover and shaker.
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Okay, so. No, Peter was never a Bishop in Rome - I explained why.
And by 'Good' Muslim, I mean the ones who are not the Jihadist type that murders Christians for glee and false glory with Allah. I don't care what anyone teaches, I simply cannot believe such evil people could ever receive redemption or salvation regardless of the moot point you raised.
And by 'Good' Muslim, I mean the ones who are not the Jihadist type that murders Christians for glee and false glory with Allah. I don't care what anyone teaches, I simply cannot believe such evil people could ever receive redemption or salvation regardless of the moot point you raised.
Don't worry, it is I who feel like the lamb among wolves being a Catholic in a Protestant hotbed I definitely don't 100% agree with everything the church teaches, but there is a richness of faith in it that I cannot walk away from either.
Put simply, I believe that we're all part of the same body of Christ. I am more than open to respectful questioning on our belief system and I have zero care what other people believe, so long as they see Christ as Lord, God as the Father and the Spirit as the loving, powerful mover and shaker.
I definitely don't 100% agree with everything the church teaches, but there is a richness of faith in it that I cannot walk away from either.Put simply, I believe that we're all part of the same body of Christ. I am more than open to respectful questioning on our belief system and I have zero care what other people believe, so long as they see Christ as Lord, God as the Father and the Spirit as the loving, powerful mover and shaker.
But I wouldn't at all say the Catholic Church is spiritually deeper than what I experience in an average-sized church in my neck of the woods. In fact, the spiritual presence of the Lord is so strong I can't but weep. Why should we even compare? This is just carnal competition.
I embrace the Catholic Church as home to so many Christians of the world. And yet, so many of them that I meet lack spiritual depth until they get outside of the Catholic Church. They didn't learn much more than a moral/spiritual tradition, and certainly didn't become biblically literate.
On the other hand, in my Protestant world I've run into many able biblically-literate people. You will find arguers and disenchanted people everywhere, who will compete with you, denigrate you, and basically, unashamedly indulge their flesh. So this is a sin problem, and not a Catholic or Protestant problem.
I just don't see any Catholic supposed superiority--nowhere. There is power in numbers, I suppose, and people feel secure in a huge organization of Christians that spans the centuries. Adding that the bureaucracy emanates from Peter is a bit much, though.
But I have no wish to bash you. I'm just responding to a thread that deals with Catholicism. These are my two cents worth.
I might venture a guess. Did you read the link I sent you stating outright Catholic belief in Catholic exclusivity? After Vatican 2 there was a change, and it seemed to allow people from other religions into salvation. I actually believe this myself, since people are not condemned for their ignorance, but only for what they know. If in their ignorance they serve God indirectly by responding to their conscience, they will ultimately be saved in the after life. I believe that, based on Romans 2.
But why you could've missed this if you read the article I can't fathom.
Read HERE
5. The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men; this divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible Church." 6
But why you could've missed this if you read the article I can't fathom.
Read HERE
5. The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men; this divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible Church." 6
I apologise for missing that. Yes, I am aware of this belief. Further explained it simply means that we here on earth are neither Creator or Judge. Therefore who are we to say that a non believer who has lived a good moral life in the absence of the knowledge of Christ is automatically condemned? Such things are up to the grace and glory of the Father himself to decide. My personal take on this is that they would see Jesus seated at his right hand and proclaim, 'My Lord, forgive me, for I never knew you'
I could quote other sources that expand on this in regards to how God oversees everything and everyone and hears all prayers, but this is not the place to do so. One only has to read the story of the rich man and Lazarus that God even hears people in hell to gain an inkling of what I mean though.
As for Catholic exclusivity, that is old and outdated and I really do not know a single Catholic that believes this regardless of what the catechism may state. It's kinda the same thing with divorce and birth control. There are a few things in there that are pretty much universally rejected all but the most militant Catholics (the ones that are so backward that they believe mass isn't mass unless it is said in Latin.)
I could quote other sources that expand on this in regards to how God oversees everything and everyone and hears all prayers, but this is not the place to do so. One only has to read the story of the rich man and Lazarus that God even hears people in hell to gain an inkling of what I mean though.
As for Catholic exclusivity, that is old and outdated and I really do not know a single Catholic that believes this regardless of what the catechism may state. It's kinda the same thing with divorce and birth control. There are a few things in there that are pretty much universally rejected all but the most militant Catholics (the ones that are so backward that they believe mass isn't mass unless it is said in Latin.)
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The Catholic Church is a hierarchy, and the leaders determine what the people believe. I feel confident that you're right that people don't necessarily accept the word of their leaders, and may not even fully understand the line of your leaders. What they do, however, is hold to a traditional family, the RCC. And that's entirely their choice.
I've seen the same thing in dealing with Mormons. Sometimes the people believe one thing, and don't even know that their leaders believe something else. I'm not here comparing Catholicism with a Christian cult! It's just a fact that often people follow a leader out of loyalty and tradition, rather than out of understanding and conviction.
What matters to me is not belonging to an organization, but rather, belonging to a Christian fellowship. Nothing wrong with organizing. But loyalty to God comes before loyalty to a Christian organization. Can you say yes to that?
I've seen the same thing in dealing with Mormons. Sometimes the people believe one thing, and don't even know that their leaders believe something else. I'm not here comparing Catholicism with a Christian cult! It's just a fact that often people follow a leader out of loyalty and tradition, rather than out of understanding and conviction.
What matters to me is not belonging to an organization, but rather, belonging to a Christian fellowship. Nothing wrong with organizing. But loyalty to God comes before loyalty to a Christian organization. Can you say yes to that?
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