Do agnostics go to hell?

[CS1]

Do you think basing from your arguments that the best way to save humanity from hell is by abortions? If God fully knew them in the womb , then that makes them perfectly human and their death before being born indirectly saved them from hell. Therefore , suggesting that there is a sure way that a man can be saved from hell - abortions. Do you agree?
And why i call it a sure way based on what you have written? It is because, the unborn can't be blamed if they don't believe in Christ because they were never born into the world to have matured and have the mind to reject or accept Him as their Savior. Therefore , not even giving them the choice, they are being saved?
So why do you think abortion is such a huge problem when their eternities are being secured?
If hell is an awful place and if you would truly love your fellow humans and not want them to suffer eternal pain...then don't you think helping them not go there is nothing but an act of love? regardless of the means.

I base this on aHoly God who is righteous Judge

Did Able Blood not cry out to God? what did it cry for? Justice.


"Do you think basing on from your arguments that the best way to save humanity from hell is by abortions?"


What a perverted outlook. First, a grown man is not a baby are you serious?

Jesus said Suffer NOT the little children to come unto me. For such IS the Kingdom of God. Jesus also said their angels ( children's) are always before my Father's face in Heaven.

The Problem with Abortion is God hates the shedding of innocent blood. No killing babies so they don't go to hell is a perverted outlook, and God expects those who are MEN to protect the weakest among us. I would not want to stand before God and say

I did nothing about abortion Lord because it was a sure ticket into Heaven.

 

[CS1]

Who wants to be glorified?. all people want is peace and happiness and to avoid the eternal horror of hell . But LO and BEHOLD> Christians preach that they will go to hell if they don't accept Christ as their Saviour indirectly implying that many babies and mentally sick who can't make a decision are the ones that can be saved apart from those who make the decision of choosing Christ.Basically saying that abortion and being mentally ill is a ticket to being saved without being questioned because these didn't have the mental maturity to make a decision. Therefore implying that having mental immaturity is actually a gift?!

No one is saying that you are perverted in your thinking God is holy and righteous. Those who come to him must believe that HE is God and have the ability to know him. I have family members who have serious cognitive disabilities and pray for them and read the word of God to them and tell them about Jesus yet to me I cannot ascertain if they have come to the saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, I trust God on that.

Secondly, all babies who died one month after birth are you saying they are in Hell? Don't be a coward if that is what you think, say it.

 

[CS1]

You said God holds the parent responsible for not teaching them about God
What about orphans then?

again God is fully able to reveal Himself to all. there are many orphans who are Christians. You sound like your looking for hope in bucket manure.

 

[Truth7t7]

When the Rich man was in hell that is not to say that he was judged yet. Judgement doesn't happen before or during hell. No one spends forever in hell. The lake of fire is the final destination for some, only when the day of judgement has come. There is nothing in scripture that says a person in hell couldn't repent and find Christ. "Judgement at the moment of death" is an RCC doctrine, not scriptural.

I disagree with your teaching persons can be saved after death in the spiritual realm

The rich man and Lazarus is the tell all

Of course the rich man was regretful of his actions upon earth in his human body, and begged that his living relatives would be warned about hell

Did the rich man find repentance and salvation from hell (No)

Scripture below clearly teaches, judgement is based upon things done while (In The Human Body)

2 Corinthians 5:10KJV
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[throughfaith]

Who wants to be glorified?. all people want is peace and happiness and to avoid the eternal horror of hell . But LO and BEHOLD> Christians preach that they will go to hell if they don't accept Christ as their Saviour indirectly implying that many babies and mentally sick who can't make a decision are the ones that can be saved apart from those who make the decision of choosing Christ.Basically saying that abortion and being mentally ill is a ticket to being saved without being questioned because these didn't have the mental maturity to make a decision. Therefore implying that having mental immaturity is actually a gift?!

Ultimately there is no 'peace 'in this world . So the only true peace is with God . The only way to be with God when we die is through glorification
. Glorification will only happen to those in Christ. Christ died for everyone to freely come to him as he died for their sins ,so no one was left out . Babies and the mentally incapable cannot understand this provision and take hold of it ,so to speak . They can't be held responsible for rejecting Jesus because they can't appropriate the provision . But this is not the excuse for those that can easily do so . Its not difficult. Its not a curse to be born . Its not hard to seek God . He's not far from every single one of us who is born. He loves us , he has made the way for everyone to freely come to him.

 

[Scarlett7297]

This issue here is, most of those times are found in Matthew and Revelation
It's not true to say that each of those 70 times are evenly spread about
You won't find hell described in John or any of Paul's writing and only once in Mark. I believe i'm accurately stating the facts here
In fact it's surprising how some places mention it a lot and others not at all, especially Paul who was not shy to pull out the big guns
I'm well aware how the dogma goes, that if one place mentions it, then it applies consistently as a rule over all the places that do not, and the dogma also insists that all places ultimately must be in perfect agreement. But can this be taken too far?

If this denies us the chance to question what it means that the concept of hell should be so varied and is God trying to tell us something here? I just think that he is trying to tell us something. To not legalistically try and create formulae that determine a souls ultimate fate and to keep us guessing as is his privilege. So we are forced to fall back on faith and trust. Jesus consistently did the unexpected and confounded the experts, he has something wonderful to tell us!

So, falling back on a fixed definition is not what he is looking for, it's something else. Something heavenly that's worth all our efforts to protect and express correctly. Something is wrong when we are even asking a question like 'do agnostics go to hell' what kind of dumb question is that?

How is it dumb , can u elaborate on that? Don't just leave it there. Even i can speak something seemingly useful and relating to the topic and at the end of it , put up a sentence not related to the point and leave it there.

 

[Funkus]

Sure: nothing aside from a great chasm that has been fixed between two groups
of people, so that even those who wish cannot cross from one side to another.

To say otherwise is to reject the very words of Jesus Christ Himself.

It's not this simple! The Lazarus episode is a moral story. Should we be extrapolating doctrine from it?

I do not think so because if we do the story has other problems that can't be ignored
First - why is the beggar with Abraham? We are not told he repented it suggests God had compassion for his injust sufferings like Job. If God saves in this way, then does it not suggest the same logic would apply to agnostics who lived good lives? Yes now you see the problem
Second - it says his brothers will not be persuaded to repent, suggesting now that repentance, not belief in Jesus is the way to heaven

So it isn't hard to see this as a standalone story, to teach a moral lesson and it freely omits things of paramount importance to us, which is OK if it's a moralising story. But if we are to use this story to literally believe things about hell then we can't pick and choose - you must also believe that repentance is the way to heaven and God has mercy on who he wants like he did with Lazarus. You must believe that agnostics may indeed go to heaven based on the story of Lazarus!

I just prefer to take a step back and leave however it works up to God and be at peace with these sorts of questions

 

[Scarlett7297]

Equally we could say that they didn't have the mental faculties to reject the salvation offered to the world.

Matthew 19:14 (KJV) But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

'little children' (paidon), very small child.

But abortion is still judged as murder.

Ohh...well, I have seen a lot of cases wherein there are abortions that happen without the woman or her household wanting it to happen. Have you heard of terms like missed abortion? Incomplete abortion? Complete abortion? These are not only classification for the abortions that are done voluntarily but also those that just happen involuntarily. Without the person wanting it. Do you have an explantion for such abortions. In these cases the women pray for the abortion to not happen, they plead with God to have a child but experience abortions. You mean to say God , who is the Creator is murdering these fetuses inside the womb while trying to create them at the same time? What's going on?

 

[Scarlett7297]

I base this on aHoly God who is righteous Judge

Did Able Blood not cry out to God? what did it cry for? Justice.


"Do you think basing on from your arguments that the best way to save humanity from hell is by abortions?"


What a perverted outlook. First, a grown man is not a baby are you serious?

Jesus said Suffer NOT the little children to come unto me. For such IS the Kingdom of God. Jesus also said their angels ( children's) are always before my Father's face in Heaven.

The Problem with Abortion is God hates the shedding of innocent blood. No killing babies so they don't go to hell is a perverted outlook, and God expects those who are MEN to protect the weakest among us. I would not want to stand before God and say

I did nothing about abortion Lord because it was a sure ticket into Heaven.

Do you think all abortions are caused voluntarily? Are you kidding me? There are plenty which happen involuntarily. There are medical terminologies to classify them like missed abortion, threatened abortion , incomplete and complete abortion. And these aren't all classified for the abortions that happen voluntarily. Many woman cry out to God and ask Him for their next pregnancy to not undergo spontaneous abortions after facing a lot of abortions previously. What does it imply then? So if abortion is murder , then are you saying God starts creating and then goes like " oh, i should stop now" and bam! There comes an abortion. What do you have to say about such abortions? Are you saying God creates and kills inside the womb at the same time?

 

[Scarlett7297]

I base this on aHoly God who is righteous Judge

Did Able Blood not cry out to God? what did it cry for? Justice.


"Do you think basing on from your arguments that the best way to save humanity from hell is by abortions?"


What a perverted outlook. First, a grown man is not a baby are you serious?

Jesus said Suffer NOT the little children to come unto me. For such IS the Kingdom of God. Jesus also said their angels ( children's) are always before my Father's face in Heaven.

The Problem with Abortion is God hates the shedding of innocent blood. No killing babies so they don't go to hell is a perverted outlook, and God expects those who are MEN to protect the weakest among us. I would not want to stand before God and say

I did nothing about abortion Lord because it was a sure ticket into Heaven.

The last sentence of yours reminds me of myself some years ago. It lead to my family being shattered , just to save my skin , i spoke religious words as if i knew everything.

 

[Scarlett7297]

No one is saying that you are perverted in your thinking God is holy and righteous. Those who come to him must believe that HE is God and have the ability to know him. I have family members who have serious cognitive disabilities and pray for them and read the word of God to them and tell them about Jesus yet to me I cannot ascertain if they have come to the saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, I trust God on that.

Secondly, all babies who died one month after birth are you saying they are in Hell? Don't be a coward if that is what you think, say it.

Haha. Your assumptions are too bad, i am starting to wonder upon what are they based.? I somehow don't even feel the need to explain myself to you. I am not going to bring my Bible to a person who is mentally unable to comprehend it and who first needs care and love and definitely won't start reading something I don't fully comprehend just for the sake of reading it. That's why i am looking for answers.

 

[Scarlett7297]

No one is saying that you are perverted in your thinking God is holy and righteous. Those who come to him must believe that HE is God and have the ability to know him. I have family members who have serious cognitive disabilities and pray for them and read the word of God to them and tell them about Jesus yet to me I cannot ascertain if they have come to the saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, I trust God on that.

Secondly, all babies who died one month after birth are you saying they are in Hell? Don't be a coward if that is what you think, say it.

Did i say or made an assumption that all babies who died one month after birth are going to hell? Am i even preaching about hell to anyone? It is you who are. So get your facts straight before answering. Thank you.

 

[Scarlett7297]

again God is fully able to reveal Himself to all. there are many orphans who are Christians. You sound like your looking for hope in bucket manure.

That's because of the topic, see where the thread is going and follow that, i said that in reply to a specific mention of 'parents' teaching the child.

 

[Scarlett7297]

Ultimately there is no 'peace 'in this world . So the only true peace is with God . The only way to be with God when we die is through glorification
. Glorification will only happen to those in Christ. Christ died for everyone to freely come to him as he died for their sins ,so no one was left out . Babies and the mentally incapable cannot understand this provision and take hold of it ,so to speak . They can't be held responsible for rejecting Jesus because they can't appropriate the provision . But this is not the excuse for those that can easily do so . Its not difficult. Its not a curse to be born . Its not hard to seek God . He's not far from every single one of us who is born. He loves us , he has made the way for everyone to freely come to him.

Then why is the way so narrow if it is so easy to seek God? Why is it hard for some to find God ? You might say they aren't seeking with all their heart, but in their defense they'll say they put all their heart, soul , mind and strength into seeking Him but they couldn't find Him all they found was confusion and facts that make them question theism! Makes them wonder.
Explain this verse....if it's so easy to seek God and if it isn't a curse to be born, then WHY do few find 'IT'?
For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.

 

[Scarlett7297]

that is true those who have not come to the saving knowledge of the lord yet are already on their way to Hell.

Now look who's preaching hell here. Did u think a neonate of 1 month going to hell was what I was implying ? Just because I asked a question relating to hell in the thread doesn't imply that I preach that the agnostics are going there, have you wondered why I even asked the question in the first place or are you going to consider it dumb like Funkus did?

 

[Magenta]

It's not this simple! The Lazarus episode is a moral story. Should we be extrapolating doctrine from it?

I do not think so because if we do the story has other problems that can't be ignored
First - why is the beggar with Abraham? We are not told he repented it suggests God had compassion for his injust sufferings like Job. If God saves in this way, then does it not suggest the same logic would apply to agnostics who lived good lives? Yes now you see the problem
Second - it says his brothers will not be persuaded to repent, suggesting now that repentance, not belief in Jesus is the way to heaven

So it isn't hard to see this as a standalone story, to teach a moral lesson and it freely omits things of paramount importance to us, which is OK if it's a moralising story. But if we are to use this story to literally believe things about hell then we can't pick and choose - you must also believe that repentance is the way to heaven and God has mercy on who he wants like he did with Lazarus. You must believe that agnostics may indeed go to heaven based on the story of Lazarus!

I just prefer to take a step back and leave however it works up to God and be at peace with these sorts of questions

I see the problem you have created, yes, and part of it is you thinking I must look at things the way you do. You ignore that Jesus taught through parables. You ignore that this is pre-crucifixion. You ignore that nobody was in heaven yet. Do you really want to say that dead people can change their hearts and minds about God? I suppose you can if you want. It is a very liberal, non-Biblical view. According to you, apparently Jesus was mistaken to say a great chasm that has been fixed between two groups of people, so that even those who wish cannot cross from one side to another.

 

[Magenta]

@Funkus you also seem to be overlooking the principle of line by line and precept by precept.

 

[throughfaith]

Then why is the way so narrow if it is so easy to seek God? Why is it hard for some to find God ? You might say they aren't seeking with all their heart, but in their defense they'll say they put all their heart, soul , mind and strength into seeking Him but they couldn't find Him all they found was confusion and facts that make them question theism! Makes them wonder.
Explain this verse....if it's so easy to seek God and if it isn't a curse to be born, then WHY do few find 'IT'?
For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.

Because there is only ONE way ,that's why. Jesus is the ONLY way . But if you read 1 cor 1.21 how hard is that ?

 

[crossnote]

Ohh...well, I have seen a lot of cases wherein there are abortions that happen without the woman or her household wanting it to happen. Have you heard of terms like missed abortion? Incomplete abortion? Complete abortion? These are not only classification for the abortions that are done voluntarily but also those that just happen involuntarily. Without the person wanting it. Do you have an explantion for such abortions. In these cases the women pray for the abortion to not happen, they plead with God to have a child but experience abortions. You mean to say God , who is the Creator is murdering these fetuses inside the womb while trying to create them at the same time? What's going on?

I take it you are referring to miscarriages. In which case God and God alone has the right to take life because He alone gives life.

 

[CS1]

Do you think all abortions are caused voluntarily? Are you kidding me? There are plenty which happen involuntarily. There are medical terminologies to classify them like missed abortion, threatened abortion , incomplete and complete abortion. And these aren't all classified for the abortions that happen voluntarily. Many woman cry out to God and ask Him for their next pregnancy to not undergo spontaneous abortions after facing a lot of abortions previously. What does it imply then? So if abortion is murder , then are you saying God starts creating and then goes like " oh, i should stop now" and bam! There comes an abortion. What do you have to say about such abortions? Are you saying God creates and kills inside the womb at the same time?

I can imagine you sitting down wearing a pink hat holding a rubber uterus. If you want to justify 61 million abortion that was not all done due to :

1. rape
2. birth defects
3. life of the mother
4. other medical emergencies
5. Miscarriage

You go right ahead. My opinion of abortion doesn't matter, God's does. Your questioning is from what seems to be a secular argument, not a biblical one. The overwhelming abortion that happening in America is not due to life-threatening reasons. Don't take my word for it. Take the word of a woman Abby johnson and this doctor who performed and witnesses thousands of them.