Dispensationalism...

[Wansvic]

Do you not agree that God dispensed his truth to man graduall throughout the course of human history? His truth was dispensed to man as man needed it?

The directions God gave Adam was different than what was given to Noah? Noah to Abraham? Abraham to Jacob? Jacob to Moses? And so on…

The bible proves God always required some form of obedience throughout different dispensations of time. However, in the NT obedience to the requirements associated with Jesus' sacrifice were the same for Jews, Samaritans, (half Jewish-half Gentile) and Gentiles)

 

[DavidTree]

I agree if whatever you’re calling “true Israel” has placed their trust in the cross of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins.

But the Lord is not through with his physical people the nation of Israel. He has made a covenant with them which includes an earthly kingdom and righteousness. When the fullness of the agentikes be come in the Lord will finish his covenant to the nation of Israel.

The LORD completed and fulfilled His promises to the earthbound Israel of the flesh.

The LORD is not done with fulfilling Prophecy concerning the earth bound nation of Israel.

EXAMPLE = the LORD said/prophesied to the nation of Israel according to the flesh this = Matthew 23:37-39
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling!
38Look, your house is left to you desolate.
39For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

ALWAYS base your trust and understanding upon the words of God and not on what men say it says.

 

[Wansvic]

There it is. Does it say "righteousness by works"?

Noah's belief in what God said did not in and of itself save anybody. He could have sat there believing everything God said and would have perished with the rest of humanity. However, Noah took a step of faith and obeyed God's instructions and built the ark.

 

[John146]

Dear Brother,



Dispensationalism has some truth and some error and therefore cannot be relied upon for proper hermanuetics/understanding of Truth.

Case in point:
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
See! Your house is left to you desolate;
for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”
Matthew 23:37


For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27For it is written:
“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”

28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”
31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

The earthbound nation of Israel is lost and in bondage with her children = Galatians ch4

The ISRAEL of GOD is Born of the SPIRIT of GOD = Romans ch9

But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

Isaac was the promised seed of Christ, not Ishmael. Isaac is the child of promise, even though Ishmael is a physical seed of Abraham.

 

[John146]

The LORD completed and fulfilled His promises to the earthbound Israel of the flesh.

The LORD is not done with fulfilling Prophecy concerning the earth bound nation of Israel.

EXAMPLE = the LORD said/prophesied to the nation of Israel according to the flesh this = Matthew 23:37-39
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling!
38Look, your house is left to you desolate.
39For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

ALWAYS base your trust and understanding upon the words of God and not on what men say it says.

The following scriptures all point towards God's promises to his physical people Israel, not the body of Christ.

Romans 11:
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Acts 3:
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Hebrews 10:
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Brother, this is not the body of Christ. It is Israel, and will be the remnant of Israel during the great tribulation, the time of Jacob's trouble, not the church.

 

[John146]

yes

1. 1 Corinthians 9:17
   For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
   
   
2. Ephesians 1:10
   That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
   
   
3. Ephesians 3:2
   If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
   
   
4. Colossians 1:25
   Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
   

 

[John146]

Noah's belief in what God said did not in and of itself save anybody. He could have sat there believing everything God said and would have perished with the rest of humanity. However, Noah took a step of faith and obeyed God's instructions and built the ark.

Yes, see Hebrews 11 for more examples.

 

[DavidTree]

Isaac was the promised seed of Christ, not Ishmael. Isaac is the child of promise, even though Ishmael is a physical seed of Abraham.

The Jews are from Isaac.
A Seperate nation came from the offspring of Ishmael.

"But God said to Abraham, “Do not let it be displeasing in your sight because of the lad or because of your bondwoman. Whatever Sarah has said to you, listen to her voice; for in Isaac your seed shall be called. 13Yet I will also make a nation of the son of the bondwoman, because he is your seed.” Genesis ch21

The Eternal Israel of God is the Offspring (Sons of God) from the Promised SEED which is Yeshua HaMashiach.

It is written: "But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”



So Dear Brother John - what shall we say then and what shall we believe?

It is written: "That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. 33As it is written:

“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
29But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”
31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

 

[DavidTree]

The following scriptures all point towards God's promises to his physical people Israel, not the body of Christ.

Romans 11:
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Acts 3:
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Hebrews 10:
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Brother, this is not the body of Christ. It is Israel, and will be the remnant of Israel during the great tribulation, the time of Jacob's trouble, not the church.

All the scripture you posted is TRUTH and is beautiful and agrees with my posts.

Your conclusion is also true concerning the current unsaved earthbound nation of Israel.

Noe Dear Brother John - Question for you according to Romans = Where does God place the Jews whom He redeems/saves when He Returns?

 

[Beckie]

1. 1 Corinthians 9:17
   For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
   
   
2. Ephesians 1:10
   That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
   
   
3. Ephesians 3:2
   If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
   
   
4. Colossians 1:25
   Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Yes we all know the word dispensation is in the Scriptures. What you have quoted does not support todays dispenstaional teaching. Actually it destroys it.

From G3623; administration (of a household or estate); specifically a (religious) “economy”: - dispensation, stewardship. No way do those verses connect with what the OP posted.


1.Dispensation of Innocence (Gen. 1:27,28).

2. Dispensation of Conscience (Gen. 3:7; Rom. 2:14,15).

3. Dispensation of Human Government (Gen. 9:1-7).

4. Dispensation of Promise (Gen. 12:1-3; 13:14-17).

5. Dispensation of the Law (Ex. 19,20).

6. Dispensation of Grace (Eph. 3:1-6).

7. Dispensation of Divine Government (Psa. 2:1-12; Rev. 11:15-19; Rev. 20).

8. Dispensation of the Fullness of Times (Eph. 1:10; II Peter 3:12,13)...

 

[John146]

The Jews are from Isaac.
A Seperate nation came from the offspring of Ishmael.

Nothing I stated said otherwise...

 

[John146]

All the scripture you posted is TRUTH and is beautiful and agrees with my posts.

Your conclusion is also true concerning the current unsaved earthbound nation of Israel.

Noe Dear Brother John - Question for you according to Romans = Where does God place the Jews whom He redeems/saves when He Returns?

In Jerusalem during the earthly 1,000 reign of Christ. The 12 disciples will be given 12 thrones to judge the nation of Israel.

 

[John146]

Yes we all know the word dispensation is in the Scriptures. What you have quoted does not support todays dispenstaional teaching. Actually it destroys it.

From G3623; administration (of a household or estate); specifically a (religious) “economy”: - dispensation, stewardship. No way do those verses connect with what the OP posted.


1.Dispensation of Innocence (Gen. 1:27,28).

2. Dispensation of Conscience (Gen. 3:7; Rom. 2:14,15).

3. Dispensation of Human Government (Gen. 9:1-7).

4. Dispensation of Promise (Gen. 12:1-3; 13:14-17).

5. Dispensation of the Law (Ex. 19,20).

6. Dispensation of Grace (Eph. 3:1-6).

7. Dispensation of Divine Government (Psa. 2:1-12; Rev. 11:15-19; Rev. 20).

8. Dispensation of the Fullness of Times (Eph. 1:10; II Peter 3:12,13)...

These separations just show how God has given truth gradually through the years and not all at once. It's called progressive revelation. God has given requirements to man as man needed.

 

[Beckie]

These separations just show how God has given truth gradually through the years and not all at once. It's called progressive revelation. God has given requirements to man as man needed.

Mans opinions do not change the Word of God. The listed so called dispensations over lap each other blend together ,. Jesus is our Lord .The same as Noah.
Gen_6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

 

[DavidTree]

In Jerusalem during the earthly 1,000 reign of Christ. The 12 disciples will be given 12 thrones to judge the nation of Israel.

Very Good.
This is true as the LORD will save the Jewish people whom He foreknew at His Second Coming.

Question: Where does the LORD place the saved Jews when He returns as spoken by the Apostle Paul in Romans.

When you find the scripture please post it - thank you.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Noah took a step of faith and obeyed God's instructions and built the ark.

Well let's see if that is precisely what we find in the Bible regarding why he was deemed righteous.

7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Gen 6:7,8) And the Bible says that we are justified by grace through FAITH. So Noah had faith in God at this point. Period. But the Ark was not even mentioned at this point.

So we go further to verse 14, and that is when God commanded Noah to build the Ark. And it was another 120 years before the Ark was completed. No doubt his faith was also behind the building of the Ark (Heb 11:7), but Noah had been justified by grace long before he started and finished the ark.

Which means that God imputed righteousness to Noah BEFORE he obeyed God. And that applies to Abraham and every person who was (and is) justified by grace through faith. See Romans 4. Romans 4 says that if justification is based on works, it is no longer based upon faith.

Too many Christian have absolutely no idea about the meaning of imputed righteousness. Therefore they misrepresent justification by grace through faith. Which is now faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption.

 

[JillianMarie]

Well let's see if that is precisely what we find in the Bible regarding why he was deemed righteous.

7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Gen 6:7,8) And the Bible says that we are justified by grace through FAITH. So Noah had faith in God at this point. Period. But the Ark was not even mentioned at this point.

So we go further to verse 14, and that is when God commanded Noah to build the Ark. And it was another 120 years before the Ark was completed. No doubt his faith was also behind the building of the Ark (Heb 11:7), but Noah had been justified by grace long before he started and finished the ark.

Which means that God imputed righteousness to Noah BEFORE he obeyed God. And that applies to Abraham and every person who was (and is) justified by grace through faith. See Romans 4. Romans 4 says that if justification is based on works, it is no longer based upon faith.

Too many Christian have absolutely no idea about the meaning of imputed righteousness. Therefore they misrepresent justification by grace through faith. Which is now faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption.

Amen!!

 

[John146]

Mans opinions do not change the Word of God. The listed so called dispensations over lap each other blend together ,. Jesus is our Lord .The same as Noah.
Gen_6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

What God has required from man has changed throughout the course of human history. Yes?

 

[DavidTree]

What God has required from man has changed throughout the course of human history. Yes?

Concerning salvation = ABSOLUTELY NOT

The SAME Gospel was preached first by God Himself.
The SAME requirement from the Beginning in Genesis all the way to Revelation.

Now if you are speaking of ritual practices that were fulfilled in Messiah, then you are on track, but that is a different subject matter.

 

[Beckie]

What God has required from man has changed throughout the course of human history. Yes?

What does God require of man but worship, obedience ?