Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[posthuman]

If an 8' tall man dressed in animal skins wielding an axe with dried blood in his beard, with an obvious chip on his shoulder comes up to you, bends over, looking you right in the eyes and asks; "do you find big cannibalistic men with axes attractive?" How do you answer?

"all the poison in my body diminishes my libido"

 

[posthuman]

DeighAnn said:
All blood sacrifice and ordinances abolished by the Lamb of God, who doesn't want sacrifice, wants our love.

Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

wow, that's wonderful!
we have two records of Jesus quoting this - both times He is telling people they don't understand it, people who are accusing Him of acting contrary to Moses' law:

While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with Him and His disciples. When the Pharisees saw this, they asked His disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”​

On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”​

(Matthew 9:10-13)​

​

At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the sabbath.”​

He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread — which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the sabbath and yet are innocent? I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the sabbath.”​

(Matthew 12:1-8)​

 

[DeighAnn]

How is it when you change your mind and erase it comes back again?

No, God does not change.

When a mans position changes relative to God there may appear to be a change, but that change can be characterized as God's influence over a man as a man enters into fellowship with God.

A Man who walks outside the influence of Gods Order might:

Smoke
Drink
Do Drugs
Eat Pork
Any Factory meat
the list is endless

But if that man enters Gods sphere of influence he may abandon all of those things for many reasons

I was in the medical field long enough and at a level where I could see the influences of many of the things listed above.

So, another Law, or "Point of Order" engages me. That being that I am part of the Temple.
Do I then consider antibiotics, hormones, stockyard practices, GMO grains etc, etc when I consider what I may or may not eat?
I know I am speaking to a man who thinks, so you can answer that. So then perhaps I will eat deer, that should be fine, or should it? I live in Rural America and I know the grasses in our pastures are poisonous. Petroleum based fertilizers, systemic herbicides like 2 4 D are in all the pasture grasses, not to mention the runoff into streams, creeks, rivers.

Water is another consideration. Did you know almost all municipal water systems have unhealthy levels of estrogen? Women take birth control, piss out the excess estrogen, it goes into the waste system and in municipalities that reclaim and reuse their water the estrogen remains after the purification process. Now young men, especially in larger municipalities are essentially being given doses of hormones that combat the male hormone testosterone. You can think through the "pathogenesis" of the sudden uptick of sins of transgender and homosexuality! If you think you have gone back to the original catalyst, go further! I'm not giving transgenders and homosexuals a pass at all, but there is culpability everywhere!

I could go on regarding the essential commandment to guard the temple and whether it is written or not that certain meats are "kosher" or acceptable "scripturally" must be considered but in light of all the above and more!

Here are a few questions for you:

I have listed just a few of the influences on food and water today which I think you will agree are significant, so:

What were the influences on animal flesh prior to the flood?

What were the influences on animal flesh after the flood?

Men are intelligent, I know what the influences of pork flesh are on the Human vascular system over other meats. It is staggering! Don't you think many men, thinking men, observant men, have over time put two and two together and recognized the harm certain foods had on peoples lives?

Similar to my observation above, do you think men who entered into God's sphere of influence would receive wisdom and instruction from being within that sphere? If so, might that wisdom be recorded according to men's proximity to God?

When Paul says as you cite it; "all food is clean if received with thanks" doesn't he also say;

1Co 6:12 KJV All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

Technically speaking we could say that most meat, fish included, and even water today, and hey, lets put it all in there even fruits and vegetables are poisonous. Is poisonous food and drink expedient?

I think we both know the honest answer, so what do we do with all of the commercial food and water of today? If we eat it are we sinning against the temple? If so, then what? Now we are getting into territory where we might even say a person who choses safe alternatives is fleeing "coming out of Babylon", or the Babylonian system of commercial control to avoid her plagues and so on ans so forth!

I have answered your core question which you already knew and your peripheral questions are volleyed back to you. No, I'm not a doctor, or lawyer as EG says. My formal education is moderate, but my Creator has opened my eyes to "see" some of the things here.

What does "factory meat" mean?

 

[DeighAnn]

No, God does not change.

When a mans position changes relative to God there may appear to be a change, but that change can be characterized as God's influence over a man as a man enters into fellowship with God.

A Man who walks outside the influence of Gods Order might:

Smoke
Drink
Do Drugs
Eat Pork
Any Factory meat
the list is endless

But if that man enters Gods sphere of influence he may abandon all of those things for many reasons

I was in the medical field long enough and at a level where I could see the influences of many of the things listed above.

So, another Law, or "Point of Order" engages me. That being that I am part of the Temple.
Do I then consider antibiotics, hormones, stockyard practices, GMO grains etc, etc when I consider what I may or may not eat?
I know I am speaking to a man who thinks, so you can answer that. So then perhaps I will eat deer, that should be fine, or should it? I live in Rural America and I know the grasses in our pastures are poisonous. Petroleum based fertilizers, systemic herbicides like 2 4 D are in all the pasture grasses, not to mention the runoff into streams, creeks, rivers.

Water is another consideration. Did you know almost all municipal water systems have unhealthy levels of estrogen? Women take birth control, piss out the excess estrogen, it goes into the waste system and in municipalities that reclaim and reuse their water the estrogen remains after the purification process. Now young men, especially in larger municipalities are essentially being given doses of hormones that combat the male hormone testosterone. You can think through the "pathogenesis" of the sudden uptick of sins of transgender and homosexuality! If you think you have gone back to the original catalyst, go further! I'm not giving transgenders and homosexuals a pass at all, but there is culpability everywhere!

I could go on regarding the essential commandment to guard the temple and whether it is written or not that certain meats are "kosher" or acceptable "scripturally" must be considered but in light of all the above and more!

Here are a few questions for you:

I have listed just a few of the influences on food and water today which I think you will agree are significant, so:

What were the influences on animal flesh prior to the flood?

What were the influences on animal flesh after the flood?

Men are intelligent, I know what the influences of pork flesh are on the Human vascular system over other meats. It is staggering! Don't you think many men, thinking men, observant men, have over time put two and two together and recognized the harm certain foods had on peoples lives?

Similar to my observation above, do you think men who entered into God's sphere of influence would receive wisdom and instruction from being within that sphere? If so, might that wisdom be recorded according to men's proximity to God?

When Paul says as you cite it; "all food is clean if received with thanks" doesn't he also say;

1Co 6:12 KJV All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

Technically speaking we could say that most meat, fish included, and even water today, and hey, lets put it all in there even fruits and vegetables are poisonous. Is poisonous food and drink expedient?

I think we both know the honest answer, so what do we do with all of the commercial food and water of today? If we eat it are we sinning against the temple? If so, then what? Now we are getting into territory where we might even say a person who choses safe alternatives is fleeing "coming out of Babylon", or the Babylonian system of commercial control to avoid her plagues and so on ans so forth!

I have answered your core question which you already knew and your peripheral questions are volleyed back to you. No, I'm not a doctor, or lawyer as EG says. My formal education is moderate, but my Creator has opened my eyes to "see" some of the things here.

Go start a periodic blog, please. I really really like it when you start pointing out these things like this, this way. I am not saying to be dedicated but when something like this comes up I get the feeling you are only scratching the surface and you bring us stuff that never crosses my mind. Just a thought for people like me who are very ignorant of the world around them not because they want to be, they just don't think that way naturally.

 

[DeighAnn]

did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer have to keep the sacrifices of the law of Moses?

He didn't tell you?

 

[SimpleGardner]

How is it when you change your mind and erase it comes back again?

What does "factory meat" mean?

Hey DeighAnn,

I should have been more clear.

Dictionary


fac·to·ry farm·ing
/ˈfakt(ə)rē ˌfärmiNG/
noun
noun: factory farming

1. a system of rearing livestock using intensive methods, by which poultry, pigs, or cattle are confined indoors under strictly controlled conditions.

 

[DeighAnn]

wow, that's wonderful!
we have two records of Jesus quoting this - both times He is telling people they don't understand it, people who are accusing Him of acting contrary to Moses' law:

While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with Him and His disciples. When the Pharisees saw this, they asked His disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”​

On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”​

(Matthew 9:10-13)​

​

At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the sabbath.”​

He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread — which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the sabbath and yet are innocent? I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the sabbath.”​

(Matthew 12:1-8)​

Brings to mind
Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

 

[SimpleGardner]

He didn't tell you?

Greetings PH,

When Jesus prophesied the destruction of the temple where the sacrifices were made would that be a reference to sacrifices?

Did Jesus prohibit thank offerings, wave offerings?

What is your take?

 

[DeighAnn]

Hey DeighAnn,

I should have been more clear.

Dictionary


fac·to·ry farm·ing
/ˈfakt(ə)rē ˌfärmiNG/
noun
noun: factory farming

1. a system of rearing livestock using intensive methods, by which poultry, pigs, or cattle are confined indoors under strictly controlled conditions.

Oh my. Maybe I will quit eating chicken and fish. That is horrible. Is it necessary for the amount of people on the planet, to feed them? The pig and the cattle aren't in great shape but the chickens, that is so mean.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Oh my. Maybe I will quit eating chicken and fish. That is horrible. Is it necessary for the amount of people on the planet, to feed them? The pig and the cattle aren't in great shape but the chickens, that is so mean.

highest profit margin. The cut the tips of the chicken beaks off so they cannot peck the eggs.

Those eggs are unhealthy!

When chickens are free to roam an eat bugs and grasses and seeds and clover they egg yolks are deep deep orange! Studies have proven the eggs are healthy for humans.

When chickens are incarcerated their eggs are very unhealthy for human consumption. Those eggs are produced in a state of forced trauma!

 

[gb9]

So the slightest hint at wanting to do what is right is wrong?

I actually get a chuckle at the absurdity of your comments!

You remind me of Donald Sutherland in - Invasion of the Righteous Hunters

but, why can't I follow the New Covenant instructions of right behavior? why do I have to keep the Law of Moses, which as a gentile, i was never under?

see, i mention fruits of the Sprit, you say nothing.

i mention mount of transfigeration , you say nothing.

you keep going back to the Law as a reference point, strongly imply that one is not living right if they are not keeping it, then say you are not saying keep the Law.

i find your self-deceiving comments amusing also.

 

[posthuman]

Greetings PH,

When Jesus prophesied the destruction of the temple where the sacrifices were made would that be a reference to sacrifices?

Did Jesus prohibit thank offerings, wave offerings?

What is your take?

Paul compares himself to a drink offering, tells us to make ourselves thanksgiving offerings, and a Psalm says His people will be free will offerings

I think, the Law was a shadow of the good things to come

 

[SimpleGardner]

Paul compares himself to a drink offering, tells us to make ourselves thanksgiving offerings, and a Psalm says His people will be free will offerings

I think, the Law was a shadow of the good things to come

Oh this one too:

Rom 12:1 KJV I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Do you think that the Law Moses received and the Law the israelites received through Moses were the same?

 

[SimpleGardner]

but, why can't I follow the New Covenant instructions of right behavior? why do I have to keep the Law of Moses, which as a gentile, i was never under?

see, i mention fruits of the Sprit, you say nothing.

i mention mount of transfigeration , you say nothing.

you keep going back to the Law as a reference point, strongly imply that one is not living right if they are not keeping it, then say you are not saying keep the Law.

i find your self-deceiving comments amusing also.

You can follow the New Covenant! All you hear me speak of is how the Law has taken on new meaning. Truthfully I used to yawn going through it when I was young, but as I continue my walk any sign of God is lovely. Do I need to keep them, well that's legalistic. Do I need to follow the Holy Spirits leading to becoming more righteous! That's not Legalism, that's an honor. If my praise of Gods laws is offensive, I apologize, but on this forum there are many who are not legalistic about the law that have found a study of it delightful. Why should their conversation be scrutinized so? If you honestly listen none that I have read so far are pushing the OT Law for justification at all. Are we all a bit defensive about this? That's an understatement! We could do better! I think everyone on here understands your argument too, and agrees that the Law

Do I think someone can develop fruits of the spirit while not studying the Law. YES, all of them! Without a doubt. As the giver of the Law will give them their understanding in bite size morsels easy to perceive and digest and adhere to. In the end will that individual be able to read the Law and say, Hey! I know this! This is what I beleive!, YES! But How? Through the Holy Spirit who led them into all truth! And when that day comes and they proclaim here that they read the Law and love it, it is nothing more than a testimony to what Jesus died to bring us in to. What the holy Spirit of God has wrought in us! What our Heavenly Father planned from the beginning of time! Because He Loves us!

 

[Karraster]

wow, that's wonderful!
we have two records of Jesus quoting this - both times He is telling people they don't understand it, people who are accusing Him of acting contrary to Moses' law:

While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with Him and His disciples. When the Pharisees saw this, they asked His disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”​

On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”​

(Matthew 9:10-13)​

​

At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the sabbath.”​

He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread — which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the sabbath and yet are innocent? I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the sabbath.”​

(Matthew 12:1-8)​

Psalm 4:40
6 Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
but my ears You have opened.a
Burnt offerings and sin offerings
You did not require.
7Then I said, “Here I am, I have come—
it is written about me in the scroll:
8I delight to do Your will, O my God;
Your law is within my heart.”

 

[posthuman]

Do you think that the Law Moses received and the Law the israelites received through Moses were the same?

i don't see how it wouldn't be the same unless Moses corrupted it between receiving and transmitting it.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Yes you are correct, Moses was a faithful scribe, so the words he heard were identical to what he wrote. BUT!

Thank you for answering my simplistic question, I was not baiting you, no, I was only hoping to have a thoughtful segue to the point that when you and I were first saved we had a hunger for Gods word! That hunger was inspired by Gods Holy Spirit. we could have read our Bibles our whole young life before receiving the anointing of the Holy Spirit and all we would walk away with that time is knowledge of the words and first level meaning. BUT, as we both have come to know through supernatural experience is that The Holy Spirit, as Jesus did for His disciples "Opens up" the scripture to our understanding. Do you agree with this?

If so, my point is that what Moses received and what Israel received through Moses were in fact two different things. Moses received the words with the Spirit of God they were alive fully interpreted to Moses, Israel received a copy of the words with all of the detail Moses heard, only without the Holy Spirit! What they received required a "Mediator", Moses.

Without the Spirit of the law available to a mans mind, a man cannot perceive the true intent of that law, hence he cannot keep that law. Oh, sure, "thou shalt not murder". mechanically anyone can perceive the meaning, but the Spiritual dimension of that command is enormous, alive fully interconnected with every other command in ways that the carnal man cannot see. So, the essence of committing murder can be violated without touching anyone, but how? This is what the Holy Spirit imparts and this is what Israel missed by "standing afar off" "lest we die" when the Law was given.

This is what our redemption, Offered freely through unmerited Justification through Jesus work at calvary sets us up for! We are offered the opportunity to "die" and be "reborn", what the israelites feared and passed up! Through this process we are then offered the anointing of the Holy Spirit who as Jesus promised would "lead us into all truth". This is a process! But once the Spirit is rejoined with the will of God we have the components necessary for the process of Sanctification to begin! A new Heart! Gods Laws written upon it!

 

[SimpleGardner]

"all the poison in my body diminishes my libido"

Now that's funny...not what I was driving at. more a male ego scenario to make a point. Didn't go off as I had hoped, no disrespect intended.

 

[gb9]

Yes you are correct, Moses was a faithful scribe, so the words he heard were identical to what he wrote. BUT!

Thank you for answering my simplistic question, I was not baiting you, no, I was only hoping to have a thoughtful segue to the point that when you and I were first saved we had a hunger for Gods word! That hunger was inspired by Gods Holy Spirit. we could have read our Bibles our whole young life before receiving the anointing of the Holy Spirit and all we would walk away with that time is knowledge of the words and first level meaning. BUT, as we both have come to know through supernatural experience is that The Holy Spirit, as Jesus did for His disciples "Opens up" the scripture to our understanding. Do you agree with this?

If so, my point is that what Moses received and what Israel received through Moses were in fact two different things. Moses received the words with the Spirit of God they were alive fully interpreted to Moses, Israel received a copy of the words with all of the detail Moses heard, only without the Holy Spirit! What they received required a "Mediator", Moses.

Without the Spirit of the law available to a mans mind, a man cannot perceive the true intent of that law, hence he cannot keep that law. Oh, sure, "thou shalt not murder". mechanically anyone can perceive the meaning, but the Spiritual dimension of that command is enormous, alive fully interconnected with every other command in ways that the carnal man cannot see. So, the essence of committing murder can be violated without touching anyone, but how? This is what the Holy Spirit imparts and this is what Israel missed by "standing afar off" "lest we die" when the Law was given.

This is what our redemption, Offered freely through unmerited Justification through Jesus work at calvary sets us up for! We are offered the opportunity to "die" and be "reborn", what the israelites feared and passed up! Through this process we are then offered the anointing of the Holy Spirit who as Jesus promised would "lead us into all truth". This is a process! But once the Spirit is rejoined with the will of God we have the components necessary for the process of Sanctification to begin! A new Heart! Gods Laws written upon it!

I see what you are saying, and I respect it. sites like this are a magnet to cults, and over the years , there have been plenty.

so, when one seems to be talking about the Law at lot, It is easy assume it just another one.
so, we can have peace.

but, I would caution you to be 110% sure trust Christ 100% for salvation, there is no other way into the Kingdom.

 

[stillness]

I'm not a law-keeper, but I still haven't found a single piece of evidence -- in the Gospels -- that Jesus ever told us to stop keeping the Law. Should we rely solely on what Paul said?

The intent of the law was to bring us to Christ: to expose that we could not be like God on our own. That we could not Love as God apart from Christ in us. Now that we rely on influence of the Grace and Truth of Christ, we understand that Love can't be commanded. "Love does not insist on its own way." Likely why it's referred as the law of Moses even tho it was given by God and why Moses could not enter the promissed land, as the law could not bring us to perfection. If your not in pride of achiement under law anymore, why do you need a law to expose your pride. And if we fall from Grace, we understand we need to turn to the Lord and learn of Him in Humility, to be tamed by God as friends. "Strive to enter into His Rest."