Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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Oct 24, 2019
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Acts 15: 1. Some men came down from Judea and taught the brothers, "Unless you are circumcised after the custom of Moses, you can't be saved."

So the brothers who were being taught by the men from Judea were already believing in Jesus and were already keeping the entire law of Moses with the exception of circumcision. Is that correct in your view?
As I said, all believers were obedient to the Torah, for the Torah is what defines what sin is. Only matters of circumcision, feasts, shabbaths, food, drink, are no longer necessary to observe under the new covenant.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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As I said, all believers were obedient to the Torah, for the Torah is what defines what sin is. Only matters of circumcision, feasts, shabbaths, food, drink, are no longer necessary to observe under the new covenant.
Acts 15: 2. Therefore when Paul and Barnabas had no small discord and discussion with them, they appointed Paul and Barnabas, and some others of them, to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders about this question.


In your view, what is causing the no small discord and discussion between Paul and Barnabas and the men from Judea?
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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gaviriachristian said: You can only be released from the written Torah if you are released from sin,
Marcelo said: Did Paul say that? Read again what he wrote:

4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
He did say it, hence,

You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Romans 6:18

But now, having been set free from sin, and having become servants of Elohim, you have your fruit resulting in set-apartness, and the end, aeonial life.
Romans 6:22

Yeshuah replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it to the aeon. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
John 8:34-36

And I will give you a new heart, and a new airflow I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my airflow within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my judgments.
Ezekiel 36:26-27

in order that the righteous requirement of the Torah might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the airflow.
Romans 8:4

For by one offering he has perfected in perpetuity the ones having been set apart.
Hebrews 10:14

and to the airflows of the righteous, who have been made perfect.
Hebrews 12:23

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:9

We know that every one born of God does not sin; but the one born of God keeps himself, and the evil one does not touch him.
1 John 5:18
Again, did Paul say the following: "You can only be released from the written Torah if you are released from sin".
 
Oct 24, 2019
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Acts 15: 2. Therefore when Paul and Barnabas had no small discord and discussion with them, they appointed Paul and Barnabas, and some others of them, to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders about this question.


In your view, what is causing the no small discord and discussion between Paul and Barnabas and the men from Judea?
As I said, all believers were obedient to the Torah, for the Torah is what defines what sin is. Only matters of circumcision, feasts, shabbaths, food, drink, are no longer necessary to observe under the new covenant. If you have something to say, then you are welcome to arrive at your point.
 
Oct 24, 2019
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Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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He did, I just quoted the scriptures indicating that. Read this bible study regarding perfection and why being freed from sin also released us from the written Torah. http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/01/11/perfection-through-belief-in-yeshuah-by-the-airflow-of-god/ .
Sorry, I attempted to access the site, but I got a "not safe warning".

Could you mention which verses talk about that? (You can only be released from the written Torah if you are released from sin)
 
Oct 24, 2019
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Sorry, I attempted to access the site, but I got a "not safe warning".

Could you mention which verses talk about that? (You can only be released from the written Torah if you are released from sin)
I already did, not just from my website, but the verses I quoted. To be freed from sin means to be released from the Torah. The Torah is not what holds us captive, sin is. Once you die to sin, you become released from the Torah that reveals all that is sin. A Torah of sin has no hold over someone who has died to sin, for the written Torah is given for those who are slaves to sin.

But now we are released from the Torah, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the airflow and not in the old way of the written code.
Romans 7:6

What then shall we say? Shall we remain in sin that favor should be superabundant? May it not be. We who died to sin, how shall we still live in it?
Romans 6:1-2

You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Romans 6:18

But now, having been set free from sin, and having become servants of Elohim, you have your fruit resulting in set-apartness, and the end, aeonial life.
Romans 6:22

But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance.
Romans 6:17
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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No it is not. Read.

You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Romans 6:18

But now, having been set free from sin, and having become servants of Elohim, you have your fruit resulting in set-apartness, and the end, aeonial life.
Romans 6:22

Yeshuah replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it to the aeon. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
John 8:34-36

And I will give you a new heart, and a new airflow I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my airflow within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my judgments.
Ezekiel 36:26-27

in order that the righteous requirement of the Torah might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the airflow.
Romans 8:4

For by one offering he has perfected in perpetuity the ones having been set apart.
Hebrews 10:14

and to the airflows of the righteous, who have been made perfect.
Hebrews 12:23

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:9

We know that every one born of God does not sin; but the one born of God keeps himself, and the evil one does not touch him.
1 John 5:18
You've supported the second half of your equation, but not the first.

By the way, which translation do you use?
 
Oct 24, 2019
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Yawn.

Do you understand the concept of "logical fallacy"?
Just like the Pharisees, you won't answer, because you very well know that although the Jerusalem council didn't specifically mention this sin, it is indeed sin, because it is obvious that it is a sin, and it is a command of the Torah, "a man shall not dress as a woman". The Torah is still binding people, and reveals everything that is sin. http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/02/14/the-torah-has-not-been-abolished/
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Just like the Pharisees, you won't answer, because you very well know that although the Jerusalem council didn't specifically mention this sin, it is indeed sin, because it is obvious that it is a sin, and it is a command of the Torah, "a man shall not dress as a woman". The Torah is still binding people, and reveals everything that is sin. http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/02/14/the-torah-has-not-been-abolished/
This is hilarious. You accuse me of not answering your question as you completely ignore mine.

Hypocrite.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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Marcelo said: So you think the apostles who took part in Council of Jerusalem were ignorant, disobedient, stubborn and are now burning in Hell.
No, they sleep in death, and they taught obedience to the Torah, not disobedience to it as you people teach.
So, you believe the apostles held a meeting to decide that Christian should obey the Torah? What do the verses below mean, then?

ACTS 15:28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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You can only be released from the written Torah if you are released from sin, hence "you have been set free from sin".
So, in your church there are people who have already been released from sin and therefore don't have to keep the Torah, right?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Thanks, Nehemiah! The purpose of this thread is to show that Jesus and Paul didn't preach the exact same thing as most, if not all, traditional churches teach.
So you believe Paul teaching not inline with Jesus teaching?
 
Oct 24, 2019
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So, you believe the apostles held a meeting to decide that Christian should obey the Torah? What do the verses below mean, then?

ACTS 15:28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
I already explained that. Scroll up, or not.
 
Oct 24, 2019
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So, in your church there are people who have already been released from sin and therefore don't have to keep the Torah, right?
If I say yes you won't believe me, because you do not believe nor want to believe what is written regarding the release from sin. Believe what is written, then perhaps I will tell you more about the assembly here in Medellin.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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Marcelo said: Thanks, Nehemiah! The purpose of this thread is to show that Jesus and Paul didn't preach the exact same thing as most, if not all, traditional churches teach.
So you believe Paul teaching not inline with Jesus teaching?
Yes, there are differences between the teachings of the Earthly Jesus and those of the risen Jesus. For example:

The Earthly Jesus taught obedience to the law of Moses while the risen Jesus (through Paul) released us from the Law.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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As I said, all believers were obedient to the Torah, for the Torah is what defines what sin is. Only matters of circumcision, feasts, shabbaths, food, drink, are no longer necessary to observe under the new covenant. If you have something to say, then you are welcome to arrive at your point.
My point is that Christians do not need to keep the law.

The brothers at the beginning of Acts chapter 15 aren't keeping the law. That's what the men from Judea are concerned about. They bring up circumcision because that's kind of the flagship law in the Jewish mind.

The question that Paul and Barnabas are sent to Jerusalem to resolve is the question of whether gentile Christians are to keep the law. Paul and Barnabas don't think they should, that's what brought them into dispute with the men from Judea.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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Literal
Figurative



Literal live animal sacrifice??? During the Millennium???
Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Psalm 50:23 Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God.

Isaiah 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.


1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isaiah 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isaiah 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

If you believe there will be live sacrifices do you also believe that Our Lord and Saviour will look like this???
Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.



Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Hebrews 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Hebrews 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Hebrews 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us for after that he had said before,
Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them

Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:


Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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Marcelo said:
So, in your church there are people who have already been released from sin and therefore don't have to keep the Torah, right?
If I say yes you won't believe me, because you do not believe nor want to believe what is written regarding the release from sin. Believe what is written, then perhaps I will tell you more about the assembly here in Medellin.
I do believe, why shouldn't I?

Do they go through an official recognition process or is it a matter of conscience? For example: When a member feels they have been released from sin do they automatically stop keeping the Law?