Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

Melach · Oct 3, 2019

talk about turning scripture on its head. to be called least in the kingdom means you shall in no case enter into the kingdom lolz. where do you guys keep coming with this?

didnt you just condemn yourself? do you obey the least of the commandments given by Jesus on that sermon on the mount? good if you do. i dont know anyone who obeys it so that means nobody is saved, nobody obeys the very least of the sermon of the mount and teaches others so as well.

our righteousness does exceed that of pharisees because we have righteousness of Christ by faith.

lightbearer · Oct 3, 2019

Melach said:

God, context; and sentence structure. It says what it says. I notice you did not prove the points of the post wrong. Take a closer look and address the points of the post within the context of the text.

Matt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

WHOSOEVER BREAKS THE LEAST OF THESE COMMANDMENTS AND TEACHES MEN SO SHALL BE CALLED LEAST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE CALLED LEAST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN?

The following verse starts with the word for. It is translated from the Greek word gar.

G1063 γάρ gar (ğar') conj.
(properly) assigning a reason.
{(used in argument, explanation or intensification; often with other particles)}

In other words what follows the word for (gar) is an explanation to what was just previously stated.

Matt 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

So to be called least in the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN means you shall in NO case ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.[/QUOTE]

NayborBear · Oct 3, 2019

eternally-gratefull said:

Can't/won't/not able to do that boss!
Reminds me too much of Jesus' words to the pharasees and scribes concerning the "outside" of the cup being nice and clean and pretty "looking", while the "inside" is "dirty."

DeighAnn · Oct 3, 2019

lightbearer said:

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Marcelo · Oct 3, 2019

FollowtheShepherd said:

Well, I think both of us are seeking the truth with sincerity.

It is to my own interest to keep Christ's words, but only those that are still effective.

The earthly Jesus taught obedience to the scribes and the Pharisees, told the disciples to sell their possessions and give alms, .... well ... to keep it short, Jesus taught obedience to the law of Moses whereas Paul said we are not under the Law.

Do you place the words of earthly Jesus above those of Paul (the words of the risen Christ)?

Marcelo · Oct 3, 2019

FollowtheShepherd said:

My view is just the opposite of yours: the words of the risen Christ supersede those of the physical Jesus.

Marcelo · Oct 3, 2019

FollowtheShepherd said:

Jesus didn't say TEACHINGS, He said WORDS (LOGOI, the plural of LOGOS).

Marcelo · Oct 3, 2019

FollowtheShepherd said:

In the New Covenant yes, but during His walk on earth Jesus preached a different message to the Jews.

seed_time_harvest · Oct 3, 2019

Melach said:

So then do you think you can make It In without being perfect the way our FATHER In heaven Is perfect?
Do you think that you can be In heaven and not be PERFECT?
What say you If least does not mean you won't make It In?

seed_time_harvest · Oct 3, 2019

I think you are saying that a person has to do good works of the flesh or they wont make It In but can you give a reasonable answer to why the thief on the cross did no physical works and his faith was enough?

wokinluv · Oct 3, 2019

Marcelo said:

While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!” Matthew 17:5

For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” John 12:47

Marcelo said:

If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him. John 7:17-18

The word/s of the Master is a law to His servants, written on their hearts.

Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and walk in Love.

God is good and His Love endures forever. Amen.

Marcelo · Oct 3, 2019

FollowtheShepherd said:

This is one of the best arguments against my point. When I was first confronted with it I told myself: "my opponents are right". But then I said: "wait a moment! How can we teach Gentiles to obey the scribes and the Pharisees?"

The transition from Old Covenant to New Covenant didn't happen overnight, it took more than 15 years. The Jews who accepted Christ continued keeping the Law for many years.

The resurrected Christ (before the ascension) could have told His disciples that salvation thereafter would be by grace through faith, but He didn't -- it seems that God planned for a smooth transition. New converts would first learn about Jesus' reinterpretation of the Law and later on they would learn about salvation by grace.

SimpleGardner · Oct 3, 2019

Marcelo said:

Greetings Marcelo,

It would be helpful to all if these words of the "risen Jesus" were not in conflict with those that you interpret as abolishing the Laws;

Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Any thoughts?

SG

Marcelo · Oct 3, 2019

SimpleGardner said:

Greetings Marcelo,

It would be helpful to all if these words of the "risen Jesus" were not in conflict with those that you interpret as abolishing the Laws;

Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Any thoughts?

SG

Greetings, S.Gardner!

The risen Jesus' words did abolish the Law.

Grandpa · Oct 3, 2019

SimpleGardner said:

Romans 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Which of these two keeps the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus?

Those who work at the law but don't attain to Righteousness?

Or those who DON'T work at the law but DO attain to Righteousness?

You are operating under the fallacy that those who work at the law actually keep the law. If that were the case then there would be no reason for Christianity.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Would you rather be righteous or would you rather work at the law?

posthuman · Oct 3, 2019

lightbearer said:

whenever you sort a list the ordering of the list from greatest to least is equivalent to the ordering from least to greatest.
in either case one creates an identical network with identical adjacencies.

The same time the disciples came unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, and said, Verily I say unto you, except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

(Matthew 18:4)

what does this tell us?
the least humble is the least in the kingdom.
what does the least humble do?

Marcelo · Oct 3, 2019

SimpleGardner said:

If you attempt to (really) keep the law of Moses today you'll have trouble in many countries because they will not allow you to sacrifice animals, put adulterers to death, etc.

As for Christians, what country will prohibit you from loving your neighbor as yourself, from being honest, from being faithful to your wife, etc.

SimpleGardner · Oct 3, 2019

Marcelo said:

I was hoping for a more detailed address of the scriptures I cited...

SimpleGardner · Oct 3, 2019

Marcelo said:

I agree with your points, but please take a look at the original question. Thanks

SG

eternally-gratefull · Oct 3, 2019

NayborBear said:

Then you cant focus on the law then

Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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