Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
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The Bible says For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
The reformed state that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son so that whomever God chooses should not perish but have everlasting life.
Strangely enough, the actual and ONLY people God has chosen are the Jews.
Predestination, according to the reformed, means that you basically had no choice and God decided you would be saved in spite of yourself.
Predestination according to scripture, means that once you are a follower of Christ, you are then predestined to have eternal life and follow Christ during your earthly life.
The reformed will tell you that God ordained that your child would be killed by a car because they did not look both ways before crossing a busy road.
The Bible states that sin has entered this world and we all suffer because of it. God did not kill your child; your child had the option to look both ways, God did not force him/her to look straight ahead and be killed.
The reformed state that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son so that whomever God chooses should not perish but have everlasting life.
Strangely enough, the actual and ONLY people God has chosen are the Jews.
Predestination, according to the reformed, means that you basically had no choice and God decided you would be saved in spite of yourself.
Predestination according to scripture, means that once you are a follower of Christ, you are then predestined to have eternal life and follow Christ during your earthly life.
The reformed will tell you that God ordained that your child would be killed by a car because they did not look both ways before crossing a busy road.
The Bible states that sin has entered this world and we all suffer because of it. God did not kill your child; your child had the option to look both ways, God did not force him/her to look straight ahead and be killed.
A patently false statement.
Reformed theology is true because spiritually dead people are helpless, hapless and powerless to save themselves.
Your analogy with the conscious, aware kid failing to look both ways is lame because the dead are unaware and insensitive to spiritual truth making, since they naturally suppress by their wickedness, making the unable to respond positively to the gospel. You missed my biblical "Free Will" Analogy in my 4522, did you?
Reformed theology is true because spiritually dead people are helpless, hapless and powerless to save themselves.
Your analogy with the conscious, aware kid failing to look both ways is lame because the dead are unaware and insensitive to spiritual truth making, since they naturally suppress by their wickedness, making the unable to respond positively to the gospel. You missed my biblical "Free Will" Analogy in my 4522, did you?
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Thanks, you just reinforced my argument. ALL HUMANITY persists in their sin. Man cannot fix himself. There's no difference in principle between what God did to the NON-ELECT nations by driving them out the Land and what he did in eternity past with all non-elect people throughout the world by consigning them to eternal damnation. Since you, evidently, don't believe God was a murderer in using the Israelites to exterminate pagans from the Land, then neither is a God a murderer for consigning all non-elect to eternal punishment.
God gave his elect nation Israel the Land to inhabit-- a type of Restored Eden -- for it was a land flowing with milk and honey.
P.S. Mankind CANNOT change its nature, anymore than God can change his. You have this fantasy in your head that there is some "good" in mankind that enables him to fix himself.
God gave his elect nation Israel the Land to inhabit-- a type of Restored Eden -- for it was a land flowing with milk and honey.
P.S. Mankind CANNOT change its nature, anymore than God can change his. You have this fantasy in your head that there is some "good" in mankind that enables him to fix himself.
You conjecture this from the "cliff Notes in the Bible given you. I guess Peter should be condemned with no chance either then, since in fear he denied Jesus three times a told would. Did God have mercy on him. Peter id better the others? I do not think do, since all have sinned.
However you go to any campground you choose, I choose God's in love and mercy never to be take for granted or used to get away with harming anyone else ever again as in Matt 18:24-35 tells me. I am forgiven by God, therefore I see to not condemn anyone as in Romans 2:1-4
However you go to any campground you choose, I choose God's in love and mercy never to be take for granted or used to get away with harming anyone else ever again as in Matt 18:24-35 tells me. I am forgiven by God, therefore I see to not condemn anyone as in Romans 2:1-4
I was commenting in reference to the argument that God hated Esau in his mother's womb before he did anything but I'm quirky about reposting baloney, so I didn't quote the referenced comment. My apologies. That position assumes that Romans 9 applies to salvation rather than service, even though the explanation, "The older will serve the younger," is offered within the context.
10Not only that, but Rebecca’s children were conceived by one man, our father Isaac. 11Yet before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad, in order that God’s plan of election might stand, 12not by works but by Him who calls, she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”d 13So it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”e
10Not only that, but Rebecca’s children were conceived by one man, our father Isaac. 11Yet before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad, in order that God’s plan of election might stand, 12not by works but by Him who calls, she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”d 13So it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”e
That would be an assumption though
Paul is quoting the OT. As it is written, Jacob I have loved but esau I have hated.
This is a quote from Malachi,
“I have loved you,” says the Lord.
“Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’
Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?”
Says the Lord.
“Yet Jacob I have loved;
3 But Esau I have hated,
God is not talking about 2 prenatal babies, He is talking about the nations who came from them, He is talking to The nation of Israel (jacob)
And he is compairing them with Jacobs brother Esau (edom) whom God destroyed because of their unbelief.
Sadly. Romans 9 is taken out of context by a certain group..
Paul is quoting the OT. As it is written, Jacob I have loved but esau I have hated.
This is a quote from Malachi,
“I have loved you,” says the Lord.
“Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’
Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?”
Says the Lord.
“Yet Jacob I have loved;
3 But Esau I have hated,
God is not talking about 2 prenatal babies, He is talking about the nations who came from them, He is talking to The nation of Israel (jacob)
And he is compairing them with Jacobs brother Esau (edom) whom God destroyed because of their unbelief.
Sadly. Romans 9 is taken out of context by a certain group..
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