Did Adam's kids commit incest among themselves to achieve posterity?
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In a sense, Adam and Eve punished themselves and all of humanity because of this knowledge of good and evil. They made themselves and all of their descendants responsible for their actions. We are all under the law of conscience, knowing what is good and what is evil. That is why the law is described as a curse., for where there is no law, there is no transgression. So Adam and Eve were innocent before they ate from that tree.
The problem with man is his heart. Too much self-interest and not enough love for God and fellow man. Through Christ, our sins are erased and our hearts are filled with the needed love for God and men by the Father's Holy Spirit. It is then that we are perfected to do the Father's will : to do good and refrain from evil. We will be following the Spirit of the Law and not the letter of the law because no matter what you do or not do, if you don't have that love in your heart, it is meaningless.
The problem with man is his heart. Too much self-interest and not enough love for God and fellow man. Through Christ, our sins are erased and our hearts are filled with the needed love for God and men by the Father's Holy Spirit. It is then that we are perfected to do the Father's will : to do good and refrain from evil. We will be following the Spirit of the Law and not the letter of the law because no matter what you do or not do, if you don't have that love in your heart, it is meaningless.
Well this strays from the subject somewhat. I was only asserting that *when the Law was in effect,* God expected that Jews were able to keep the Law. That should go without saying.
Beyond this I'm asserting that men are able to choose to do good and actually accomplish that, even if they are unbelievers. It does not require rebirth to be able to do good. Rebirth is, in my view, the choice to be and do good *all the time.* It is the choice to receive a New Nature from heaven, through the redemption of Christ.
But just being able to do good should not be any question at all. People obviously do good, Christian or not, Jewish or not. The above statements and passages you refer to have to do with the transition from the Law to the New Testament. Jews had a culture that continued to follow the Law as a matter of culture--not necessarily law. They were likely to observe Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles simply because they were national holidays, just as we might observe Easter and Christmas.
Paul made the doctrine of a *new covenant* clear because his ministry was primarily to Gentiles, to whom the Law never applied at all. But Jewish believers had yet to make a clear distinction between what James ultimately called the Law of Liberty and the Law of Moses. These were different inasmuch as the Law of Liberty, being the New Testament, did not advocate following the Law of Moses as a matter of law, but rather, as a template for moral living.
Beyond this I'm asserting that men are able to choose to do good and actually accomplish that, even if they are unbelievers. It does not require rebirth to be able to do good. Rebirth is, in my view, the choice to be and do good *all the time.* It is the choice to receive a New Nature from heaven, through the redemption of Christ.
But just being able to do good should not be any question at all. People obviously do good, Christian or not, Jewish or not. The above statements and passages you refer to have to do with the transition from the Law to the New Testament. Jews had a culture that continued to follow the Law as a matter of culture--not necessarily law. They were likely to observe Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles simply because they were national holidays, just as we might observe Easter and Christmas.
Paul made the doctrine of a *new covenant* clear because his ministry was primarily to Gentiles, to whom the Law never applied at all. But Jewish believers had yet to make a clear distinction between what James ultimately called the Law of Liberty and the Law of Moses. These were different inasmuch as the Law of Liberty, being the New Testament, did not advocate following the Law of Moses as a matter of law, but rather, as a template for moral living.
James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
Who heard among us has failed to even stumble in one pont?
If you find that someone, You have fund someone who has kept the law
I only know of one man who has done it.
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
Who heard among us has failed to even stumble in one pont?
If you find that someone, You have fund someone who has kept the law
I only know of one man who has done it.
Why did Christ say this:
Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. So a man came to Christ and asked how to enter into heaven: What did he say KEEP THE COMMANDMENT!
Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. So a man came to Christ and asked how to enter into heaven: What did he say KEEP THE COMMANDMENT!
Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Yea, our problem is that we've been born with a divided heart. And now, we have an opportunity to set our heart on a better course. The tendency is to make our own decisions, without consulting the Lord.
It's not as if God tells us directly what to do so much as He wants to be spirituality involved in all of our decisions. He wants us to be informed by His love before we do anything or make any decisions. We agree on that--all the operations of law are meaningless if we don't walk by the spirit of Christ's love!
The Law of Moses is described as a curse not because it was a bad thing. On the contrary, it was a good thing, teaching Israel how to live in righteousness while they were still under that covenant system.
What made the Law a curse is the fact that it reminded Israel that there was still residual sin in their lives, even as they obeyed righteousness. No matter how much good they did, they still had a Sin Nature.
It is the same with us today under the New Covenant. No matter how much we obey Christ, we still have a Sin Nature. And that would disqualify us from Eternal Life if it were not the fact Christ already died for our sins, and forgave us all our sins.
The Law was a curse only because Christ had not yet died, and the reminder of having a Sin Nature was a disqualifying factor until Christ actually came and died. That's why the old covenant system had to be replaced by the new covenant system. Now, the curse is lifted, and there is no further need for Israel to observe laws that show their need for a final cleansing from sin.
It's not as if God tells us directly what to do so much as He wants to be spirituality involved in all of our decisions. He wants us to be informed by His love before we do anything or make any decisions. We agree on that--all the operations of law are meaningless if we don't walk by the spirit of Christ's love!
The Law of Moses is described as a curse not because it was a bad thing. On the contrary, it was a good thing, teaching Israel how to live in righteousness while they were still under that covenant system.
What made the Law a curse is the fact that it reminded Israel that there was still residual sin in their lives, even as they obeyed righteousness. No matter how much good they did, they still had a Sin Nature.
It is the same with us today under the New Covenant. No matter how much we obey Christ, we still have a Sin Nature. And that would disqualify us from Eternal Life if it were not the fact Christ already died for our sins, and forgave us all our sins.
The Law was a curse only because Christ had not yet died, and the reminder of having a Sin Nature was a disqualifying factor until Christ actually came and died. That's why the old covenant system had to be replaced by the new covenant system. Now, the curse is lifted, and there is no further need for Israel to observe laws that show their need for a final cleansing from sin.
Your comment makes no sense. There was no law to keep in the sense of the 10 commandments. Abraham obeyed God, doing as God commanded. That is much different from obeying the written code. You should read the whole of Galatians. Hopefully that will clear up your misunderstanding.
And that is the difference between dead religion and a living relationship with out heavenly Father. Dead religion needs rules and regulations because there is no communication with the Living God. Those who know their God hear from Him and are led by the Spirit. Abraham did not need laws on tablets of stone. He was God's friend. Lord Jesus is the friend of sinners. We do well to seek to befriend the Lord Jesus. And yes, when we are truly His friend, we will obey Him.
The written law is not wrong, it is useless. All it did was kill us. Thanks a lot. Everyone knows Galatians 2:20. It's a shame that they do not know the preceding verse.
19For through the law I died to the law so that I might live to God.
How can I obey the law if I'm dead to it? If I am speeding, crash my car and die, who would bother to give me a ticket? How would they enforce it?
The new covenant is new because it is new. The Law is of the old. There is now the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. Learn to live in that law and watch your life be transformed. The only thing that the OT law does is bring death. You may like to exist in death. No thanks. I know the difference. I much prefer life.
And that is the difference between dead religion and a living relationship with out heavenly Father. Dead religion needs rules and regulations because there is no communication with the Living God. Those who know their God hear from Him and are led by the Spirit. Abraham did not need laws on tablets of stone. He was God's friend. Lord Jesus is the friend of sinners. We do well to seek to befriend the Lord Jesus. And yes, when we are truly His friend, we will obey Him.
The written law is not wrong, it is useless. All it did was kill us. Thanks a lot. Everyone knows Galatians 2:20. It's a shame that they do not know the preceding verse.
19For through the law I died to the law so that I might live to God.
How can I obey the law if I'm dead to it? If I am speeding, crash my car and die, who would bother to give me a ticket? How would they enforce it?
The new covenant is new because it is new. The Law is of the old. There is now the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. Learn to live in that law and watch your life be transformed. The only thing that the OT law does is bring death. You may like to exist in death. No thanks. I know the difference. I much prefer life.
If I don't make sense, how does this make sense? "No law to keep in the sense of the 10 commandments?" The 10 Commandments were, in fact, laws!
I've read Galatians many times. Abraham's obedience to God was exactly the same thing as Israel's obedience to the Law of Moses. It was an opportunity to live by the word of God, and in so doing demonstrate faithfulness to God.
Yes, there was that difference that Abraham had no written code. And yet he still had the requirement of circumcision, right? It really is the same thing as existed under the Law of Moses.
As I said, the problem with the Law was not some inherent disability men had when confronted with written regulations. No, it was the fact the Law contained within it the very prohibition from the Tree of Life that Man's 1st Sin had. It was a constant reminder, even as they faithfully kept the Law, that they were disqualified from the Tree of Life, up until the time Christ bore their sins on his own tree.
Rules and regulations do not prevent people from hearing God! But yes, they can be delivered to Israel, who in turn can obey those rules and regulations without true faithfulness. I get that part of your message.
I just think it's important to note that God gave rules and regulations under the Law not to show that they couldn't keep those rules and regulations, but rather, to show that they couldn't earn eternal life by keeping them. It constantly showed or exposed their sin nature, which disqualified them from Eternal Life.
The tablets of stone were very useful at the time, and did not prevent Israel from getting God's word internally as well. That is, the purpose of the Law was not to prevent Israel from hearing God internally. Rather, these things enhanced their ability to hear internally--it just reminded them that they need legal redemption through Christ.
Rom 3.What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? 2 Much in every way! First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God.
It's a shame that in one fell swoop you've disqualified and disrespected the entirety of Psalm 119. There, David sang the praises of the Law of God with every verse! He would hardly do that if it was useless. You either reject David and the entire OT Scriptures, or you are plainly misinterpreting Galatians and Paul's theology!
But I've heard this many times from Christians, who quote it and don't fully understand it. They have trouble putting the two testaments together. We aren't under the Law not because it wasn't good, nor because we weren't Israel. Rather, we are not under the Law any longer because Christ has already provided the legal redemption the Law indicated was necessary for Eternal Salvation.
The Law was "useless" only in terms of providing Eternal Salvation. It was not useless in preparing for it to come when Jesus died on the cross. Moral living was as necessary then as it is now, even though Christ has already died for our sin.
What does "dying to the Law" mean? It means that we acknowledge that our morality is insufficient apart from Christ's redemption. We require submission to his perfect righteousness, and not to any other system, which would be inadequate.
I've never said anybody is still under the Law! Once Christ died, then we could die with him so that we may also rise with him. He was our ticket past the condemnation of the Law. He sustained our righteous works through death simply by our casting our lot with him.
You must not understand my points. I've *never* said anybody is still under the Law! What I've said is that when the Law was in effect people were able to live by it. That's what God Himself said!
Deut 32.47 They are not just idle words for you—they are your life.
I've read Galatians many times. Abraham's obedience to God was exactly the same thing as Israel's obedience to the Law of Moses. It was an opportunity to live by the word of God, and in so doing demonstrate faithfulness to God.
Yes, there was that difference that Abraham had no written code. And yet he still had the requirement of circumcision, right? It really is the same thing as existed under the Law of Moses.
As I said, the problem with the Law was not some inherent disability men had when confronted with written regulations. No, it was the fact the Law contained within it the very prohibition from the Tree of Life that Man's 1st Sin had. It was a constant reminder, even as they faithfully kept the Law, that they were disqualified from the Tree of Life, up until the time Christ bore their sins on his own tree.
Rules and regulations do not prevent people from hearing God! But yes, they can be delivered to Israel, who in turn can obey those rules and regulations without true faithfulness. I get that part of your message.
I just think it's important to note that God gave rules and regulations under the Law not to show that they couldn't keep those rules and regulations, but rather, to show that they couldn't earn eternal life by keeping them. It constantly showed or exposed their sin nature, which disqualified them from Eternal Life.
The tablets of stone were very useful at the time, and did not prevent Israel from getting God's word internally as well. That is, the purpose of the Law was not to prevent Israel from hearing God internally. Rather, these things enhanced their ability to hear internally--it just reminded them that they need legal redemption through Christ.
Rom 3.What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? 2 Much in every way! First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God.
It's a shame that in one fell swoop you've disqualified and disrespected the entirety of Psalm 119. There, David sang the praises of the Law of God with every verse! He would hardly do that if it was useless. You either reject David and the entire OT Scriptures, or you are plainly misinterpreting Galatians and Paul's theology!
But I've heard this many times from Christians, who quote it and don't fully understand it. They have trouble putting the two testaments together. We aren't under the Law not because it wasn't good, nor because we weren't Israel. Rather, we are not under the Law any longer because Christ has already provided the legal redemption the Law indicated was necessary for Eternal Salvation.
The Law was "useless" only in terms of providing Eternal Salvation. It was not useless in preparing for it to come when Jesus died on the cross. Moral living was as necessary then as it is now, even though Christ has already died for our sin.
What does "dying to the Law" mean? It means that we acknowledge that our morality is insufficient apart from Christ's redemption. We require submission to his perfect righteousness, and not to any other system, which would be inadequate.
I've never said anybody is still under the Law! Once Christ died, then we could die with him so that we may also rise with him. He was our ticket past the condemnation of the Law. He sustained our righteous works through death simply by our casting our lot with him.
You must not understand my points. I've *never* said anybody is still under the Law! What I've said is that when the Law was in effect people were able to live by it. That's what God Himself said!
Deut 32.47 They are not just idle words for you—they are your life.
The problem is not with the law. God said that explicitly. (Deuteronomy 30). The problem is with the heart of man. Jeremiah said it best, the heart is deceitful above all things.........
Left to themselves, Israel spiraled into idolatory, immorality and all kinds of wickedness. The law simply exposed the wicked pride and rebellion of lawless men.
Left to themselves, Israel spiraled into idolatory, immorality and all kinds of wickedness. The law simply exposed the wicked pride and rebellion of lawless men.
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The Lord said:
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
The Lord said don’t you even think I came to destroy the law or the Prophets. He came to fulfill,
What did he come to fulfill: Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had showed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
Prophecy of the end of animal sacrifice:
Isaiah 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. This is the prophecy of the end of animal sacrifice! This is where you fall off the horse!
The law that Christ fulfilled was Animal Sacrifice because he was the perfect sacrifice all the other laws are still in place!
Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Hebrews 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Meaning when Christ died animal sacrifice was fulfilled, He was the perfect sacrifice He didn’t fulfill, Thou shall not kill steal, covet, bear false witness, how thy father or any of the other Commandments
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Christ said till heaven and earth pass last I checked the heaven is still above, and we and still on earth not one period . Or comma , be removed from the law to all be fulfilled.
All has not been fulfilled Has Christ made his second coming yet No!
And not only did he not destroy it he magnified it:
Isaiah 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honorable. Now if you look upon a woman with lust you have already committed adultery.
This is why you don’t understand:
Psalms 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever. So if you want understanding “ The Bible said you have to be keeping the Commandments to have understanding, not my words
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
The Bible said: You have to do both keep the Commandments of God and the Faith in Christ.
You don’t have a problem with me, you have a problem with this Bible!
Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
I thought I went over this with you guys once it’s okay I’ll be patient lol!
“
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
The Lord said don’t you even think I came to destroy the law or the Prophets. He came to fulfill,
What did he come to fulfill: Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had showed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
Prophecy of the end of animal sacrifice:
Isaiah 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. This is the prophecy of the end of animal sacrifice! This is where you fall off the horse!
The law that Christ fulfilled was Animal Sacrifice because he was the perfect sacrifice all the other laws are still in place!
Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Hebrews 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Meaning when Christ died animal sacrifice was fulfilled, He was the perfect sacrifice He didn’t fulfill, Thou shall not kill steal, covet, bear false witness, how thy father or any of the other Commandments
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Christ said till heaven and earth pass last I checked the heaven is still above, and we and still on earth not one period . Or comma , be removed from the law to all be fulfilled.
All has not been fulfilled Has Christ made his second coming yet No!
And not only did he not destroy it he magnified it:
Isaiah 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honorable. Now if you look upon a woman with lust you have already committed adultery.
This is why you don’t understand:
Psalms 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever. So if you want understanding “ The Bible said you have to be keeping the Commandments to have understanding, not my words
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
The Bible said: You have to do both keep the Commandments of God and the Faith in Christ.
You don’t have a problem with me, you have a problem with this Bible!
Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
I thought I went over this with you guys once it’s okay I’ll be patient lol!
“
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
what this going into: if someone does all the laws except one, you keep all the laws but you what to eat pig (swine) them you might as well be breaking them all!
You can pick and choose what laws you want to keep. these new translation Bibles are confusing you. The King James Bible says yet offend in one point (don’t want to keep a law) then you might as well broke them all. That’s called sinning willfully like you doing!
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remain no more sacrifice for sins, (no more forgiveness for sin.)
We all stumble (fall) do we not? maybe not you lol! only difference now with Christ we can repent under the law of Moses you had to sacrifice lamb turtle dove etc.
Proverbs 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief. You commit a sin you repent, you don’t keep sinning, remember Christ told the woman go and sin no more (John 8:11) What would be the point of grace and repentance? Check your spirit cause it sounds like you think you already made you might be in for a rude awakening! None of us have made yet, what would be the point of the day of judgment? Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. “Thus say the Lord“
We all are filthy rags repent and die daily!
what this going into: if someone does all the laws except one, you keep all the laws but you what to eat pig (swine) them you might as well be breaking them all!
You can pick and choose what laws you want to keep. these new translation Bibles are confusing you. The King James Bible says yet offend in one point (don’t want to keep a law) then you might as well broke them all. That’s called sinning willfully like you doing!
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remain no more sacrifice for sins, (no more forgiveness for sin.)
We all stumble (fall) do we not? maybe not you lol! only difference now with Christ we can repent under the law of Moses you had to sacrifice lamb turtle dove etc.
Proverbs 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief. You commit a sin you repent, you don’t keep sinning, remember Christ told the woman go and sin no more (John 8:11) What would be the point of grace and repentance? Check your spirit cause it sounds like you think you already made you might be in for a rude awakening! None of us have made yet, what would be the point of the day of judgment? Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. “Thus say the Lord“
We all are filthy rags repent and die daily!