Did Adam sin brought Physical or Spiritual death???

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Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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#61
If their spirit died, the body would have died instantly. The spirit is what keeps the body alive.
I think your definition of “spiritually dead” needs a little tweaking. what was Jesus referring to that needed to be born from above when speaking to Nicodemus?
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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#62
The phrase “you shall surely die” can be literally translated from the Hebrew biblical text as “dying you shall die.” In the Hebrew phrase we find the imperfect form of the Hebrew verb (you shall die) with the infinitive absolute form of the same verb (dying). This presence of the infinitive absolute intensifies the meaning of the imperfect verb (hence the usual translation of “you shall surely die”). This grammatical construction is quite common in the Old Testament, not just with this verb but others also, and does indicate (or intensify) the certainty of the action. The scholarly reference work by Bruce K. Waltke and M. O’Conner, An Introduction to Biblical Hebrew Syntax (Winona Lake: Eisenbrauns, 1990), gives many Biblical examples of this,1 and they say that “the precise nuance of intensification [of the verbal meaning] must be discovered from the broader context.”2 Clearly in the context of Genesis 3, Adam and Eve died spiritually instantly—they were separated from God and hid themselves. Their relationship with God was broken. But in Romans 5:12 we see in context that Paul is clearly speaking of physical death (Jesus’ physical death, verses 8–10, and other men’s physical death, in verse 14). We also find the same comparison of physical death and physical resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15:20–22. So both spiritual death and physical death are the consequences of Adam’s fall.
Hiding oneself is not death....the truth is they realised they were naked and knew what good and evil....
Satan sin....he is a spirit and yet hes not dead...he still converse with God. (Job)...
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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#63
Rom 5:8 KJV But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

God on the other hand commanded his love toward us....WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS
Yep, that’s the good news, the remedy!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#64
I think your definition of “spiritually dead” needs a little tweaking. what was Jesus referring to that needed to be born from above when speaking to Nicodemus?
Are you saying that spiritual death has nothing to do with the spirit?
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#65
Since you define it...let me ask you...what do you mean separation of spirit from God?
The connection between man's spirit and God's Spirit was severed due to mankind's disobedience. Jesus' words to Nicodemus make this clear in John chapter 3:

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." John 3:5-7

This indicates mankind must be born of the Spirit while in the mortal body.

Also, notice Jesus stated that mankind cannot "see" the kingdom of God unless they are born again. Only those born of the Spirit have their spiritual eyes open to understand the principles of the kingdom of God:

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3

John 3:3 states mankind must be born again to SEE the kingdom of God.
John 3:5 makes the point that unless man is born of water and Spirit they cannot ENTER into the kingdom of God.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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689
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#66
Hiding oneself is not death....the truth is they realised they were naked and knew what good and evil....
Satan sin....he is a spirit and yet hes not dead...he still converse with God. (Job)...
Hiding oneself is the result of a broken relationship, not the cause.

those that worship, must do so in spirit and truth. no spirit no relationship, no worship.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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#68
I think your definition of “spiritually dead” needs a little tweaking. what was Jesus referring to that needed to be born from above when speaking to Nicodemus?
Jesus was talking about born of water and spirit...he cannot wnter the kingdom...

What is he tweaking....
When do you think you will be born of a spirit...you know that flrsh and nlood cannot inherit the kingdom...
Paul understand it clearly...
1Co 15:44 KJV It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

When is this spiritual body..at resurrection..
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
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#69
Are you saying the human spirit and Holy Spirit are the same?
Of course not, but if the spirit dies, so does the body. So, this spiritual death has nothing to do with the spirit of man dying, just separated from God's Spirit. Is this what you are saying?
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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#70
Jesus was talking about born of water and spirit...he cannot wnter the kingdom...

What is he tweaking....
When do you think you will be born of a spirit...you know that flrsh and nlood cannot inherit the kingdom...
Paul understand it clearly...
1Co 15:44 KJV It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

When is this spiritual body..at resurrection..
It’s just a tr
Of course not, but if the spirit dies, so does the body. So, this spiritual death has nothing to do with the spirit of man dying, just separated from God's Spirit. Is this what you are saying?
I’m saying spiritual death in that sense is indeed separation from God. The reconciliation spoken of in Scripture is aboit us being “dead” in our trespasses and then being made alive. Eph. 2:1-As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to livewhen you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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#71
It’s just a tr

I’m saying spiritual death in that sense is indeed separation from God. The reconciliation spoken of in Scripture is aboit us being “dead” in our trespasses and then being made alive.
Take out the spiritual death...its not even in the scriptures...
Death is death..physically...as death came in to all mankind all dies...
That is why the wages of sin is death...
So poetically we are dead because of ohr transgression but through the reaurrection of Christ there remains a hope...and we are made alive...(in the resurrection)
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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689
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#72
Take out the spiritual death...its not even in the scriptures...
Death is death..physically...as death came in to all mankind all dies...
That is why the wages of sin is death...
So poetically we are dead because of ohr transgression but through the reaurrection of Christ there remains a hope...and we are made alive...(in the resurrection)
So the second death don’t count either?
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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#73
Take out the spiritual death...its not even in the scriptures...
Death is death..physically...as death came in to all mankind all dies...
That is why the wages of sin is death...
So poetically we are dead because of ohr transgression but through the reaurrection of Christ there remains a hope...and we are made alive...(in the resurrection)
In addition to this...
Jesus said let the dead bury their dead...
He was not talking that those who will bury them are spiritually dead...but the truth that...they are all dead (poetically) since it is appointed for man to die...
But he followed it with..
Go on your way and preach the kingdom of God...
To spread the hope that is in Christ.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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#74
Thats both bo
So the second death don’t count either?
Thats both body and soul...
Angels (spirits) will be there, but they are not subject to death...they are immortal
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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#75
Some say man is dichotomous, my understanding is that scripture portrays man as trichotomous, though my dogmatic nature is not as fierce as in my youth.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit,

Those who believe that human nature is a trichotomy typically believe the following: the physical body is what connects us with the physical world around us, the soul is the essence of our being, and the spirit is what connects us with God. This is why the unsaved can be said to be spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1; Colossians 2:13), while they are very much physically and “soulishly” alive. Those who believe that human nature is a dichotomy would have the same understanding of the body but would view the spirit as the part of the soul that connects with God. So, the question of dichotomy vs. trichotomy is essentially whether the soul and spirit are different aspects of the immaterial human nature, or if the spirit is simply a part of the soul, with the soul being the whole immaterial part of the human nature.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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#76
Some say man is dichotomous, my understanding is that scripture portrays man as trichotomous, though my dogmatic nature is not as fierce as in my youth.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit,

Those who believe that human nature is a trichotomy typically believe the following: the physical body is what connects us with the physical world around us, the soul is the essence of our being, and the spirit is what connects us with God. This is why the unsaved can be said to be spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1; Colossians 2:13), while they are very much physically and “soulishly” alive. Those who believe that human nature is a dichotomy would have the same understanding of the body but would view the spirit as the part of the soul that connects with God. So, the question of dichotomy vs. trichotomy is essentially whether the soul and spirit are different aspects of the immaterial human nature, or if the spirit is simply a part of the soul, with the soul being the whole immaterial part of the human nature.
Here is what in genesis
Body (dust)
spirit (breath of life)
Then man became living soul.
In ecc 12
Body-return to dust (death)
Spirit (breath of life) - return to God who gave it (both wicked and good)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
#77
It’s just a tr

I’m saying spiritual death in that sense is indeed separation from God. The reconciliation spoken of in Scripture is aboit us being “dead” in our trespasses and then being made alive. Eph. 2:1-As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to livewhen you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
You were dead in sins because your soul was attached to your body of sin and death. Upon believing the gospel, your soul was circumcised from your body. You are no longer attached to your body of sin and death.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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#78
You were dead in sins because your soul was attached to your body of sin and death. Upon believing the gospel, your soul was circumcised from your body. You are no longer attached to your body of sin and death.
You were dead in sins because it was passed to mankind..
Rom 5:12 KJV Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

When you believe you have (poetically) transferred from death to life meaning you will still die but you will have eternal life at resurrection...with the spiritual body...incorruptible...
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
#79
You were dead in sins because it was passed to mankind..
Rom 5:12 KJV Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

When you believe you have (poetically) transferred from death to life meaning you will still die but you will have eternal life at resurrection...with the spiritual body...incorruptible...
Yes, but the sin nature was passed from Adam to us through the body, specifically the blood. When we believe the gospel, we are circumcised from the body and our soul is made alive in Christ. No longer do what we eat or touch condemn us because that has to do with the body that we're no longer attached to.

I believe when Adam ate of the forbidden fruit, blood entered his body. Blood is what is corrupt. Blood is what makes us mortal. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. The blood has to go. The resurrected body of Jesus had flesh and bone but no blood. He shed it all as a picture of ridding the body of the sin that corrupts us. When Adam was formed, he had flesh and bone but not blood.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
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#80
When you
Yes, but the sin nature was passed from Adam to us through the body, specifically the blood. When we believe the gospel, we are circumcised from the body and our soul is made alive in Christ. No longer do what we eat or touch condemn us because that has to do with the body that we're no longer attached to.

I believe when Adam ate of the forbidden fruit, blood entered his body. Blood is what is corrupt. Blood is what makes us mortal. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. The blood has to go. The resurrected body of Jesus had flesh and bone but no blood. He shed it all as a picture of ridding the body of the sin that corrupts us. When Adam was formed, he had flesh and bone but not blood.
When you start to add something that is not in scriptures that is the beginning of error...