Could someone who claims to believe John 6:53 is literal...

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

... please explain John 6:53 while actually taking every word literally?

Jhn 6:53¶
Then Jesus said to them, Truly, Truly, I say to you,
"Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, you have no life in you."

How about this:

You're starving and about to die because you haven't consumed any food or drink.

So Jesus goes out and hunts down a deer.

He butchers it and makes a fine roast out of it. He drains the blood and makes blood soup out of it.

The fine roast belongs to Jesus so it's Jesus' flesh, The blood soup also belongs to Jesus so it's Jesus' blood.

Jesus comes to as you are practically on your death bed dying. He says.....

John 6:53 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."

It's literal! So there you have it!


🎻

 

[Mem]

That is good advice.

We see in your quote from 1 John that the spiritual invisible intangible Life was manifest to the disciples in a visible tangible physical form as Jesus of Nazareth. So when we go to John 6, we are seeing Jesus declare Himself to be the Living Bread sent from heaven. Just as the manna was a visible tangible expression of God's presence and provision in the midst of the Israelites in the wilderness, Jesus was a visible tangible expression of God's presence and provision among the Israelites in Israel. But unlike the inanimate physical manna from heaven, Jesus is a living physical person from heaven.

"The flesh of the Son of Man" is a metaphor for whatever is a physically discernible gift from heaven.: Jesus physical body, the scriptures, members of the church, and the physical results of the exercise of spiritual gifts.

"The blood of the Son of Man" is a metaphor for the invisible Life that is a spiritually experienced gift from heaven: the Life that is loving, compassionate, truthful, gfaithful, humble, that expressed Himself through Jesus' body and ministry. (The life is in the blood.)

Jesus lays this framework for these meanings of His flesh and His blood, and of the Bread of Life and the Spirit (of Life), before He talks about eating the same. So, what is it to eat Jesus flesh?

It is to welcome and receive His body and His written word: the physical expressions of God's presence and provision on earth that were gifted to us from heaven.

And what is it to drink His blood? It is to welcome and receive His Holy Spirit gifted to us from heaven.

Unless we BOTH welcome and receive and embrace other Christians and the scriptures, and unless we ALSO receive and embrace the Holy Spirit, both by grace through faith in Christ, we have NO LIFE in us.

There is nothing about communion bread and wine in this passage of John 6.

I was pondering today why Jesus didn't remain with us saying, "it is expedient for you that I go away..."
And, here, I'm assuming your conclusion that, when Jesus said, in Matthew 26:29, "...I will not drink...from now on until I drink it anew with you in My Father's kingdom," He, currently, isn't communing with the Holy Spirit?

 

[Mem]

How about this:

You're starving and about to die because you haven't consumed any food or drink.

So Jesus goes out and hunts down a deer.

He butchers it and makes a fine roast out of it. He drains the blood and makes blood soup out of it.

The fine roast belongs to Jesus so it's Jesus' flesh, The blood soup also belongs to Jesus so it's Jesus' blood.

Jesus comes to as you are practically on your death bed dying. He says.....

John 6:53 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."

It's literal! So there you have it!


🎻

As I read through @PaulThomson 's submission #20, it inspired a 'savoring' of His body and an "appreciation of the bouquet" of His blood, which Paul interpretated as the church, manifested both oral and written form, and the (it's) Spirit. Looking into the Greek definitions, an image of "chomping" and "imbibing" struck me as partaking wholeheartedly and with full enjoyment. And, I think similarly, I see that you've led into your illustration bringing to mind one approaching the Son of Man with a ravenous appetite. And we can't forget that Jesus partook as Son of Man on our part primarily so that we would be enabled to partake as Sons of God on His part.

(*And what's with the site constantly timing out about the time I get into a good conversation and would like to add a post?! aarrgh!)

 

[PaulThomson]

I was pondering today why Jesus didn't remain with us saying, "it is expedient for you that I go away..."
And, here, I'm assuming your conclusion that, when Jesus said, in Matthew 26:29, "...I will not drink...from now on until I drink it anew with you in My Father's kingdom," He, currently, isn't communing with the Holy Spirit?

You are conflating Matthew 26:29 which is a passage in which "bread" means bread and "fruit of the vine" means fruit of the vine, with John 6 which is a passage about metaphorical "bread" as descriptive of God's physical presence and provision among men, sent and given from heaven; and metaphorical "blood" as descriptive of the Life that was being expressed in and through Jesus.

BTW, Jesus partook of "the fruit of the vine" on the cross, just before He died, when all the tasks the Father had prepared for Him to do to become Saviour had been fulfilled to the satisfaction of the Kingdom of heaven.

 

[PaulThomson]

How about this:

You're starving and about to die because you haven't consumed any food or drink.

So Jesus goes out and hunts down a deer.

He butchers it and makes a fine roast out of it. He drains the blood and makes blood soup out of it.

The fine roast belongs to Jesus so it's Jesus' flesh, The blood soup also belongs to Jesus so it's Jesus' blood.

Jesus comes to as you are practically on your death bed dying. He says.....

John 6:53 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."

It's literal! So there you have it!


🎻

Yes, that is one way to explain it literally word for word. Well done.

But it doesn't conform to the theories of transubstantiation or consubstantiation, does it? It something else's blood and flesh, not His own.

 

[Mem]

You are conflating

I guess I'm not convinced that they aren't conflatable.

 

[PaulThomson]

I guess I'm not convinced that they aren't conflatable.

Firstly, if John 6:53 were about communion bread and wine, Jesus would be making BOTH the eating of communion bread AND the drinking of communion wine prerequisites for having any spiritual life at all.
Secondly, there is nothing in John 6 that remotely alludes to the communion table. where we remember Christ's death until he comes back.

Why would anyone want to conflate the two, except as an attempt to post hoc rationalise trans- and consubstantiation theories?

 

[Mem]

Firstly, if John 6:53 were about communion bread and wine, Jesus would be making BOTH the eating of communion bread AND the drinking of communion wine prerequisites for having any spiritual life at all.
Secondly, there is nothing in John 6 that remotely alludes to the communion table. where we remember Christ's death until he comes back.

Why would anyone want to conflate the two, except as an attempt to post hoc rationalise trans- and consubstantiation theories?

partaking of the bread and wine in communion and communion in the partaking of the flesh and blood, I can't see the conflation.

Do you have any notion as to why Jesus could not remain with us so that the Holy Spirit could come?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

As I read through @PaulThomson 's submission #20, it inspired a 'savoring' of His body and an "appreciation of the bouquet" of His blood, which Paul interpretated as the church, manifested both oral and written form, and the (it's) Spirit. Looking into the Greek definitions, an image of "chomping" and "imbibing" struck me as partaking wholeheartedly and with full enjoyment. And, I think similarly, I see that you've led into your illustration bringing to mind one approaching the Son of Man with a ravenous appetite. And we can't forget that Jesus partook as Son of Man on our part primarily so that we would be enabled to partake as Sons of God on His part.

I was really stretching it, but I'm glad you were able to make it seem more reasonable!

As I read through
(*And what's with the site constantly timing out about the time I get into a good conversation and would like to add a post?! aarrgh!)[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'm not sure how forums work and the how the internet works, but I'm wondering why it got so sluggish lately. Sometimes it's even completely down!


🎻

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Yes, that is one way to explain it literally word for word. Well done.

But it doesn't conform to the theories of transubstantiation or consubstantiation, does it? It something else's blood and flesh, not His own.

Yeah, I know it wasn't very good and didn't address those theories. But it was fun just trying to make the square block fit the round circle!!

I'll keep up with this thread to see how the conversations go. I think it will be interesting!


🎻

 

[PaulThomson]

partaking of the bread and wine in communion and communion in the partaking of the flesh and blood, I can't see the conflation.

Do you have any notion as to why Jesus could not remain with us so that the Holy Spirit could come?

I don't see communion with one another in John 6.

"More blessed are those who have not seen [Jesus] and yet believe." John 20:29
Why? Because if Jesus were still physically present in His glorified body, our relationship with Him would tend to be governed by our perception of our physical proximity to His physical presence. The people who spend the most time in close physical proximity to world leaders consider themselves, and are considered by others, to have more access to that leader.

However, since we each have the presence of Jesus within us through His spirit, and no one has access to His revived physical human body, other than through His physical manifestation as the church, we all have equal access to Him. After our life here living by faith but not seeing Him, we will be able to trust in His Spirit with us, even when He is physically on earth wth us in the millennium.

 

[Suze]

... please explain John 6:53 while actually taking every word literally?

Jhn 6:53¶
Then Jesus said to them, Truly, Truly, I say to you,
"Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, you have no life in you."

I take it as spiritual flesh and blood . His Words , his sacrifice , his status as the Son of God . We have to assimilate these things into our very being and try to express them in our daily lives . I often find that if I read something in the Bible which I can't get to grips with I think about what it might mean if I look at it from a spiritual point of view .
When Jesus says that if u have have as a grain of mustard seed u can move a mountain , this used to get me down as it made me feel so inadequate . Obviously I don't have very good faith cos I can't move a mountain 😞 . Not so ! The mountain can b interpreted as a metaphor for any of the troubles I shall face in my earthly life . If something is had to grasp literally , have a think about it being a metaphor / spiritual rather than literal . Jesus spoke in parables remember ?

 

[PennEd]

How about this:

You're starving and about to die because you haven't consumed any food or drink.

So Jesus goes out and hunts down a deer.

He butchers it and makes a fine roast out of it. He drains the blood and makes blood soup out of it.

The fine roast belongs to Jesus so it's Jesus' flesh, The blood soup also belongs to Jesus so it's Jesus' blood.

Jesus comes to as you are practically on your death bed dying. He says.....

John 6:53 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."

It's literal! So there you have it!


🎻

Hey, that's not bad. Going to have to meditate on it.

Maybe there's a tie in with the "hidden Manna" Jesus speaks of.

 

[vassal]

... please explain John 6:53 while actually taking every word literally?

Jhn 6:53¶
Then Jesus said to them, Truly, Truly, I say to you,
"Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, you have no life in you."

When Jesus said, “Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you,” He was not speaking literally, but using a deep spiritual picture, just like He often did. He was showing that just as our bodies need food and drink to live, our souls need Him to live forever. His words were also connected to the old sacrifices that God commanded in the Law, especialy the ones that involved the shedding of blood for forgiveness of sins. In those sacrifices, the blood of animals was poured out to cover sin, because life is in the blood, and sin requires life to be given. But those offerings were never enough to fully take away sin, and they had to be repeated often.

Jesus came to be the final, perfect sacrifice, the Lamb of God. His body and His blood would replace all the old offerings. When He spoke of eating His flesh and drinking His blood, He was pointing to His death on the cross. He would give His body and pour out His blood to save us. Just like the people of Israel ate parts of some sacrifices as a way of sharing in the offering, Jesus invites us to spiritually take Him in, to receive His sacrifice personally and fully. This is also connected to the Passover, where the blood of a lamb protected the people from death, and they had to eat the lamb as part of their deliverance. Jesus gave His life during Passover and said, “This is My body... this is My blood,” showing that He was the true Passover Lamb. His blood saves us from death, and His body sets us free.

So, Jesus was saying: “I am the sacrifice. My body will be broken for you. My blood will be poured out. Unless you receive Me into your life the way you receive food and drink—deeply and completely—you have no life in you. But if you do, I will raise you up, and you will live forever.”

 

[Pilgrimshope]

... please explain John 6:53 while actually taking every word literally?

Jhn 6:53¶
Then Jesus said to them, Truly, Truly, I say to you,
"Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, you have no life in you."

Hes talking about eternal life

“This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:50-51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭11:24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the lords death is how sin is remitted and remission of sin remits death sins consequence

Its about communion with the body and blood of the lord and eternal life

 

[Mem]

I don't see communion with one another in John 6.

I'm seeing partaking in the bread (of Life) and the cup (of forgiveness of sins?) as communion above and beyond the literal sense. A parable that yet perplexes me is the one of the woman that puts a measure of leaven into dough that represents the kingdom of God. At the Passover meal, unleavened bread is required so leaven is representative of something detrimental there, but in the case of this parable, it strikes me to be something desirable (so I assume it must be a leaven of a different sort, even though I have heard argument that it is of the same implication). When dough is prepared (with leaven), its kneaded, punched, stretched, pulled, rolled, slapped, etc,...so it seem a possible figurative illustration of the treatment of Jesus, and I wonder if, perhaps yes, the leaven spoken of in the parable is His Spirit (consider that yeast initiates a gaseous expansion within the dough).

 

[Mem]

To elaborate further, we commune with John when we read his testimony, and I commune with you when I read your thoughts, and similarly when I sit with a cup of tea with you. Maybe my idea misses something but.
There is scripture of biting and devouring one another, bringing a picture to my mind of barbarously tearing at a loaf and gulping down mead while it runs down the chin and onto the belly, and wiping it off your chin with the sleeve and, after slamming down the cup so that it sloshes out, bellowing out a huge belch.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I was pondering today why Jesus didn't remain with us saying, "it is expedient for you that I go away..."
And, here, I'm assuming your conclusion that, when Jesus said, in Matthew 26:29, "...I will not drink...from now on until I drink it anew with you in My Father's kingdom," He, currently, isn't communing with the Holy Spirit?

“For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, For he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, Neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:25, 27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; he seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:30-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”

“And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭5:6‬ ‭

 

[Mem]

“For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, For he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, Neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:25, 27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; he seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:30-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”

“And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭5:6‬ ‭

I'm sure it has something to do with the promise of the Holy Spirit, but I'm attempting to grasp the relevance of His saying that He would not drink again until He drinks it with us in the kingdom. If He's speaking of the cup of 'His blood poured out for us,' then i understand why He'd say he wouldn't drink it again, but that He adds 'until I drink it with you in My Father's kingdom,' causes me to wonder.

 

[Hakawaka]

... please explain John 6:53 while actually taking every word literally?

Jhn 6:53¶
Then Jesus said to them, Truly, Truly, I say to you,
"Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, you have no life in you."

If you refuse communion you have no life in you and aren't a partaker of Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:16 The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?