Yes. It is the same thing. As a matter of fact God deals with individuals as individuals, even though they may be in a group (Rev 3:20). Keep in mind that Christ waited at that well in Samaria for that one sinful woman to show up and then bring her to salvation (John 4). After that He brought a large number of Samaritans to salvation. Notice what Scripture says: And he must needs go through Samaria. Now why would that be a divine necessity when Christ had said in another context that He had come only to the lost sheep of Israel? Because God is no respecter of persons.
Confess, Repent, and Believe.
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BEFORE they were baptized.
Yes I agree
“So their sins were remitted”
no that’s why Peter immediately commanded baptism in water which was my point baptism is for remission of sins when you believe the gospel , hearing not rejecting the gospel is why you receive the Holy Ghost thats not for remitting sins.
God sent John to establish the knowledge of baptism of repentance and for remission of sins. He was filled with the Holy Ghost from the womb and was a holy prophet who was promised to ready the people for hearing the messiah by giving the knowledge of remission of sins
ask yourself did John invent baptism for remission himself ? Or did God set John apart from birth to bounce what he said he would ? Read the prophecy of johns birth his job was to establish baptism for repentance and remission of sins
The term grace through faith doesn’t change any of the doctrine that phrase does not mean “ now everything is different I never need to hear and believe and do said in the gospel “ it’s trying to summarize the doctrine in a sentance not re invent what Christ said and said is eternal
There’s no reason for anyone to not believe what Jesus said will save thier soul if they hear and believe the gospel
By grace jesus died for your sins , and through faith you are saved
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
That’s his grace and creates faith it isn’t “ now I don’t have to hear and believe him I’m already saved because Paul said “ saved by grace “
Brother my general rule is that if Jesus makes a declaration like this pertaining to every creature in the world I’m going to be pretty hard headed in believing it
And making sure people understand who it is that said it I think that’s when baptism will matter to the person that believes in Jesus
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
when it’s that basic and clearly declared by him the only savior why would I look for any reasons to change it and claim to have faith that’s saving me ?
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:19-20 KJV
I don’t know why people hear that and say “ no one needs to believe that they are saved by grace through faith. “
is there a scripture saying receiving the Holy Ghost remits anyones sin ? And is there several saying baptism does ? Even Paul’s long explainations of what and how baptism remits sin and death in Christ.
Baptisms meaning is explained in the epistles of Paul and Peter really well and book of acts really shows that they never ceases baptizing in water for remission of sins after someone believed
if we want or need understand it’s worth and value and how it’s an act of faith hearing Gods word of a promise and doing it because we believe him
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Acts 2:38-47 KJV
To hear about baptism and believe you’re hearing a promise from God to remit your sins your belief is always what brings the spirit but you have to believe what he’s saying about baptism for repentance and remission to know what it’s for
Having faith isn’t the reason we don’t have to accept the things Jesus said you have to accept what he said in order to ever have any faith. Like how does a Christian ever know what baptism is for ? We find out in the gospel d listen to what Jesus sent out to the world faith comes from hearing Jesus
Yes I agree
“So their sins were remitted”
no that’s why Peter immediately commanded baptism in water which was my point baptism is for remission of sins when you believe the gospel , hearing not rejecting the gospel is why you receive the Holy Ghost thats not for remitting sins.
God sent John to establish the knowledge of baptism of repentance and for remission of sins. He was filled with the Holy Ghost from the womb and was a holy prophet who was promised to ready the people for hearing the messiah by giving the knowledge of remission of sins
ask yourself did John invent baptism for remission himself ? Or did God set John apart from birth to bounce what he said he would ? Read the prophecy of johns birth his job was to establish baptism for repentance and remission of sins
The term grace through faith doesn’t change any of the doctrine that phrase does not mean “ now everything is different I never need to hear and believe and do said in the gospel “ it’s trying to summarize the doctrine in a sentance not re invent what Christ said and said is eternal
There’s no reason for anyone to not believe what Jesus said will save thier soul if they hear and believe the gospel
By grace jesus died for your sins , and through faith you are saved
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
That’s his grace and creates faith it isn’t “ now I don’t have to hear and believe him I’m already saved because Paul said “ saved by grace “
Brother my general rule is that if Jesus makes a declaration like this pertaining to every creature in the world I’m going to be pretty hard headed in believing it
And making sure people understand who it is that said it I think that’s when baptism will matter to the person that believes in Jesus
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
when it’s that basic and clearly declared by him the only savior why would I look for any reasons to change it and claim to have faith that’s saving me ?
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:19-20 KJV
I don’t know why people hear that and say “ no one needs to believe that they are saved by grace through faith. “
is there a scripture saying receiving the Holy Ghost remits anyones sin ? And is there several saying baptism does ? Even Paul’s long explainations of what and how baptism remits sin and death in Christ.
Baptisms meaning is explained in the epistles of Paul and Peter really well and book of acts really shows that they never ceases baptizing in water for remission of sins after someone believed
if we want or need understand it’s worth and value and how it’s an act of faith hearing Gods word of a promise and doing it because we believe him
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Acts 2:38-47 KJV
To hear about baptism and believe you’re hearing a promise from God to remit your sins your belief is always what brings the spirit but you have to believe what he’s saying about baptism for repentance and remission to know what it’s for
Having faith isn’t the reason we don’t have to accept the things Jesus said you have to accept what he said in order to ever have any faith. Like how does a Christian ever know what baptism is for ? We find out in the gospel d listen to what Jesus sent out to the world faith comes from hearing Jesus
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amen also if we consider ourselves to be in a good place spiritually there’s always this to consider
“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: and if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.”
1 John 5:13-21 KJV
“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: and if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.”
1 John 5:13-21 KJV
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We're talking about 2 separate issues.
Let me ask this:
You see someone telling dirty jokes, making snide remarks and then one day comes to you about how you need Jesus.
Are you going to listen knowing what you have seen before from this person?
Now, I am not saying that is what happened with Penn Ed. But I work with many people who claim to be Followers of God but at work you could never tell they were.
Let me ask this:
You see someone telling dirty jokes, making snide remarks and then one day comes to you about how you need Jesus.
Are you going to listen knowing what you have seen before from this person?
Now, I am not saying that is what happened with Penn Ed. But I work with many people who claim to be Followers of God but at work you could never tell they were.
Ridiculous assumptions abound here.
You do NOT need to know someone well to present the Gospel. I had a short, working relationship with her. Beyond insulting to say she rejected the Lord, because she rejected me.
It sounds like you are not presenting the Gospel very often, if you wait until you know the person well.
You seem to direct a lot of hate toward certain people. Why is that?
Release it. You can then be a better tool for the Lord to use.
You do NOT need to know someone well to present the Gospel. I had a short, working relationship with her. Beyond insulting to say she rejected the Lord, because she rejected me.
It sounds like you are not presenting the Gospel very often, if you wait until you know the person well.
You seem to direct a lot of hate toward certain people. Why is that?
Release it. You can then be a better tool for the Lord to use.
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Revelation 3:20 works just fine. You are correct about it being addressed to the Laodiceans. You are correct about it being a visible "church." But we need to understand why God has put it in the Bible for us to read and study.
The church of Laodicea is an example of the apostate church that is alive and well today. It is addressed those who claim to be Christians, yet prefer their own interpretations and false doctrine over the simple and plain truth of the Gospel. It is addressed to many here who hold to twisted and contorted versions of the Gospel that lead astray the true seeker.
Revelation 3:20 is an invitation for pretenders to receive what they only pretend to have.
Revelation 3:20
“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”
The church of Laodicea is an example of the apostate church that is alive and well today. It is addressed those who claim to be Christians, yet prefer their own interpretations and false doctrine over the simple and plain truth of the Gospel. It is addressed to many here who hold to twisted and contorted versions of the Gospel that lead astray the true seeker.
Revelation 3:20 is an invitation for pretenders to receive what they only pretend to have.
Revelation 3:20
“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”
The Holy Spirit is imparted at the time of salvation, not before.
All men have the capacity to humbly seek the Lord and repent of the wicked bent that has been imputed to them since the Fall. Separation from God leaves an unmistakable void in every man's heart. Man was designed to walk with God, not live in a perpetual state of rebellion against his Maker.
Romans 1
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
All men have the capacity to humbly seek the Lord and repent of the wicked bent that has been imputed to them since the Fall. Separation from God leaves an unmistakable void in every man's heart. Man was designed to walk with God, not live in a perpetual state of rebellion against his Maker.
Romans 1
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
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There is a very significant difference between John's baptism and Christian baptism after the Holy Spirit was poured out on the day of Pentecost.
John was sent to Israel to bring Israel to repentance in expectation of their Messiah/King. Peter was sent to Israel to offer the gift of the Holy Spirit to those who would repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ after His resurrection.
It is entirely possible that on that day of Pentecost, many of the local Jews may already have partaken of John's baptism . But then they experienced Christian baptism after believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, and became a part of the church at Jerusalem.
John was sent to Israel to bring Israel to repentance in expectation of their Messiah/King. Peter was sent to Israel to offer the gift of the Holy Spirit to those who would repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ after His resurrection.
It is entirely possible that on that day of Pentecost, many of the local Jews may already have partaken of John's baptism . But then they experienced Christian baptism after believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, and became a part of the church at Jerusalem.
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John 10
25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Revelation 3
20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
I think they flow together most beautifully, Amen?
Men who refuse to open the door will not follow Him. We must choose to hear Him. John 10:25 shows us that refusal to believe is the reason that they are not His sheep. Please stop preaching Calvinistic lies that infer that some have been preselected to not be His sheep. The call goes out to all.
2 Peter 3:9
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
He will force no one. He is waiting for whosoever will come.
25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Revelation 3
20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
I think they flow together most beautifully, Amen?
Men who refuse to open the door will not follow Him. We must choose to hear Him. John 10:25 shows us that refusal to believe is the reason that they are not His sheep. Please stop preaching Calvinistic lies that infer that some have been preselected to not be His sheep. The call goes out to all.
2 Peter 3:9
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
He will force no one. He is waiting for whosoever will come.
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Your theory leaves too many scriptures that do not harmonize.
If God would have wanted to deliver all mankind to eternal heaven, he has the power to accomplish anything that he wants to accomplish.
Dan 4:35 - And all the inhabitants of earth are reputed as nothing, and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
2 Pet 3:9 - 2 Pet 1:1 tells us who Peter is speaking to in 3:9, and it is to them that have obtained like precious faith. Peter is giving them a warning, even including himself by using the word "usward".
Instructing them that when they commit a sin, they separate ( perish=death=separation ) themselves from God's fellowship, temporary, until they repent.
When a born again child of God commits a sin, they separate themselves from God's fellowship, temporary, until they repent, because God will not fellowship sin, even turning his back on his Son during the three hours of darkness, as he bore the sins of those that his Father gave him.
Your experiencing the great Grace eraser circle where no matter what verses you show that make your point clear it doesn't matter because of grace
Too many j.p. devotionals does this to mind it's terribly sad to see but is a real thing and is entirely frustrating to me I hope you are able to make headway
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