Concerning the gift of tongues

[Lafftur]

The gift of tongues is beautiful and very precious… it is NOT wise to ever speak against the gift because it would be the Giver of the gift that is spoken against, not the gift.

Jesus Christ came to Earth and accomplished His part of the Father’s Plan concerning us.

Now, the Holy Spirit is on the Earth accomplishing His part of the Father’s Plan concerning us.

All the gifts of the Holy Spirit are His working in us and through us accomplishing the Father’s Plan concerning us.

Let’s humbly, graciously and with thanksgiving receive the Holy Spirit and all His gifts and cooperate with Him, no longer stiff-necked, resisting Him or neglecting and grieving Him.


I love You, Father… I love You, Lord and Savior Jesus Christ… I love You, precious Holy Spirit… come, I receive all You have for me, amen.

 

[Lafftur]

So what? Anybody can say anything they want, but it does not mean they believe it in their heart.

Somehow that seems a difficult thing for some to grasp.

Yes, I agree.

It is pride and sometimes fear that is the stumbling block.

 

[GWH]

The gift of tongues is beautiful and very precious… it is NOT wise to ever speak against the gift because it would be the Giver of the gift that is spoken against, not the gift.

Jesus Christ came to Earth and accomplished His part of the Father’s Plan concerning us.

Now, the Holy Spirit is on the Earth accomplishing His part of the Father’s Plan concerning us.

All the gifts of the Holy Spirit are His working in us and through us accomplishing the Father’s Plan concerning us.

Let’s humbly, graciously and with thanksgiving receive the Holy Spirit and all His gifts and cooperate with Him, no longer stiff-necked, resisting Him or neglecting and grieving Him.


I love You, Father… I love You, Lord and Savior Jesus Christ… I love You, precious Holy Spirit… come, I receive all You have for me, amen.

Paul permitted glossalalia, but he did not call it beautiful and very precious.
That sort of language was reserved for the most excellent way of love (1Cor.13).

 

[randyk]

I visited a few Pentecostal churches like that. It's awful because it puts unnecessary pressure on people who just want to be saved and distracts them from learning the essential basics of living for and following Jesus.

I've seen that gift abused as well - Christians showing it off and speaking it loudly for other Christians to see, meanwhile no interpretation coming forth from them either. It's so eye-rolling....

For the people abusing that gift, it also gives them a false sense of being "special" in the eyes of God - for such people ironically, I see less or no motivation to grow to maturity in Christ.

I do have to point out though that most Christians who have the gift don't abuse or show off that gift and they are strong, humble Christians

---

As for people who don't believe in it, I really don't understand their unnatural hostility toward it. It's the only gift of the Holy Spirit that receives that kind of treatment. You don't see any hostility to gifts of knowledge, prophecy, etc.

So it gives me the impression that there is actually something very powerful about it even though it is one of the lesser gifts and may have to do with how it builds up the church (with interpretation) and the individual Christian (in praying to God privately).

I don't have any real criticism for the mockers, because if you think about it, they are missing out on all the blessings this gift gives because they reject it so vehemently. Plus the fact that they are trying to discourage Christians from receiving it when it is something the Holy Spirit wants to give, they will face certain discipline or punishment from God Himself. I just wouldn't want to be around them when that happens.


🫖

I agree. But actually I do see a certain degree of hostility towards "prophets," viewing them as fakes, or no better than astrologers. And they are critiqued for every "false prophecy" or perceived false prophecy. But yes--I think tongues are even more criticized as the equivalent of African tribal religion of the occultic kind.

That and there is a long-term hatred in the West towards miracles and the supernatural in Christianity. Theological Liberals have long tried to "defang" the "miraculous" element in Christianity to make it simply a moral code with no real certainty about the afterlife. Sad!

 

[CS1]

Well, acording the statement of fundamental truth of the assembly of God, which was foundet in 1914, and have now around 55 million members,


And this I see in questioning. When ever I met pentecostal ore charismatic people they tell me I miss an important thing in my life as Christian. The baptism with the Holy Spirit and the gift of speaking in tongues. I should search this. For to be nearer to God. And expierience a powerful life. And they always feel let me that I am 2nd class Christian.
No oneness, no love!

FYI, the Assembly of GOD is a fellowship that came out of Mission Alliance in 1897. The AOG web page doesn't give the full history of the AOG. The Assemblies of God was not the first Pentecostal Fellowship. I am sorry you FEEL like a second-class Christian. That I have never said to you, nor have I said to you, what you say others have. However, I know what you have said here in this setting, and I might add you have issues with Pentcoastals based on other people and judge all by the actions of a few.

As far as the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, that is a real experience that is seen in the word of GOD and Jesus is the one who does that baptism of John chapter 1:33

John the Baptist states, "I myself did not know him, but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, 'He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.'"

Jesus also said in Acts 1:8, "You shall receive Power after the Holy Spirit comes upon you."

I also provided that this was a separate experience and work of the Holy Spirit Found in John chapter 20:22


After Jesus said, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, I am sending you," he breathed on the disciples and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit."


Then they were told to wait until they received power from on High. Jesus said in Luke chapter 24:49


Jesus tells his disciples, "And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."


You are stuck on those who made you feel bad or hurt your feelings. I provided the text as I see it as to why I believe the word of God and the Experience of the Empowering of the Holy Spirit is still valid today.

If you disagree, Fine. Refute it by the word of GOD. Don't try to use Pentacostel history to discredit your lack of understanding of the word of God.

Furthermore, as a Pentacostel minister, I have said in this setting that you do not need to speak in tongues to be saved.I have called out publicly the foolishness that I have seen and heard Charomatics and Pentacostals say and do.

As my testimony and confession of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, I believe that He is the only way, the only truth, and the only life.

I believe in the Verbal plenary inspiration of the word of God fully and completely Inspired and relevant for today.

Believe the Concept of the Trinity is biblical and seen inscriputre even if the word is not said or found. I thnk God for the empowrring of the Holy Spirt which gave me the ability to be HIS witness and opertate as His Minster in the gifts of the Holy Spirit which there is not one verse in the word of Gos that says they are not for today or have stopped. You can disgree with all of that and I am ok with it but if you are going say that is not Bibical SHOW me in the word of God and with the word of GOD. Stop judge people be the actions of a few. Be mature Like Christ.

 

[CS1]

Nope, the text says clear that doing miracles in the name of Jesus is no proof to be right in the Lords eyes. Not more and not less.

No, it doesn't. Text is a revealing principle. Jesus knows your heart, and FYI, no Miracle can happen without the Lord Jesus' authority. One can't justify or earn salvation by working healing or miracles. Love is the only motivation for doing so. As Jesus was moved by compassion for those who were suffering, if your motives are wrong they they are works that God doesn't remember. That is what Jesus is saying which was also said in 1cor chapter 13 by Paul.

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

 

[Lamar]

The scripture referenced is about the gift of Prophecy not the gift of tongues. This is a perfect example of why many find it hard to understand biblical concepts. Newer bible translations modify what scripture actually says.

Note the Amplified Classic references speaking in tongues. This changed the original Amplified Bible scripture as well as other translations:

Amplified Classic
For in this way you can give testimony [prophesying and thus interpreting the divine will and purpose] one by one, so that all may be instructed and all may be stimulated and encouraged;
For the spirits of the prophets (the speakers in tongues) are under the speaker’s control [and subject to being silenced as may be necessary],

Amplified
For [in this way] you can all prophesy one by one, so that everyone may be instructed and everyone may be encouraged; 32 for the spirits of prophets are subject to the prophets [the prophecy is under the speaker’s control, and he can stop speaking];

King James
For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

So to be clear, you believe that tongues are not controllable by the one speaking in tongues?

Is this your assertion?

Are there any verses that state a person can control the gift of tongues?

 

[Lamar]

So what? Anybody can say anything they want, but it does not mean they believe it in their heart.

Somehow that seems a difficult thing for some to grasp.

I agree with you on this one. Proclaiming that Jesus is Lord holds no weight.

But what was the purpose of you bringing it up in the first place?

I too don't trust the phrase because no one knows their own heart much less the heart of another.

 

[Magenta]

I agree with you on this one. Proclaiming that Jesus is Lord holds no weight.

But what was the purpose of you bringing it up in the first place?

I too don't trust the phrase because no one knows their own heart much less the heart of another.

What was the point of you throwing Mormons into the mix? Have you forgotten that you did that?

 

[Lamar]

The Lord says also:
✝ Matthew 7:22

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

✝ Matthew 7:23

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Jesus does not even address their claims of miracles.

The verses Matthew 7:22-23 are about bogus miracles such as performed by the Pentecostals not real miracles as in the New Testament.

 

[ocean]

What would you use for your witness?

Your supernatural ability?Or His word?

Always scripture but people are a witness also. I do not have supernatural abilities. It is the Holy Spirit in the believer who gives the gifts at God's discretion and who works through a person. That is actually all in scripture so if you and several others here would move yourselves, you would see that and would not have to keep asking the same questions.

As for unbelief, well, that is nothing I can address other than to, again, direct you to scripture and whether or not you believe what is stated therein, is entirely your responsibility.

 

[Lamar]

What was the point of you throwing Mormons into the mix? Have you forgotten that you did that?

I believe that TrustandObey simply used the Mormons as an example of using "Jesus as Lord" as a farce.

Now that I answered your question what was your reason for bringing the phrase up?

I am not your enemy on this issue. I also believe that the simple use of the phrase does not mean that it is from the Holy Spirit.

 

[ocean]

Oh my.

Ocean, are you not aware of who the "he" is that Blain and I are talking about?

The he is you! Post #352

You and the charlatans that you rail against are one in the same.
Now, who is the "he" that you would give no credence to?

That was covered way back. Are you not a fan of MacArthur and are you not Calvinist in your belief? If you don't deny being Calvinist, it will be understood that you are Calvinist.

 

[Taylorj2]

There is "false interpretation" of just about every subject in the Bible.

The word of God is enough.

Do you think that something in "church history" will not also be debated?

Sure, but I almost guarantee you that everything you believe has a root in the early church fathers and what they believed!

 

[ocean]

No, the TOP indicate the following:

TOP #105: Christians serve the Lord using various gifts for the common good, and all are important. [1CR 12:1-14:40] These gifts may include wisdom, healing and speaking various languages (12:8-10).

TOP #106: Christians are baptized by one Spirit into one body of Christ. [1CR 12:13] Spirit baptism occurs at the moment of repentance/conversion/saving faith in Jesus as Lord, uniting them with His church (COL 1:18), because “if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.” (RM 8:9) The indwelling of the HS may also be called the initial filling by the HS, because at this point a person is cooperating fully with God.

Confusion may arise because in Ephesians 4:5 Paul says there is only one baptism, but elsewhere the NT seems to refer to two types of baptism: one by water and another by the HS. Any confusion is resolved by understanding that baptism with water is a symbolic way of portraying baptism by the HS.

TOP #107: The most excellent way of serving God is by manifesting multifaceted love. [1CR12:31-14:1, 16:14] This is called the fruit of the Spirit in GL 5:22-23 (TOP #138). Love will remain after tongues cease and new knowledge (the NT?) is canonized.

TOP #108: The gift of prophecy/preaching is better than speaking in unintelligible words. [1CR 14:1-33] By saying that five intelligible words are preferable to 10,000 words in glossalalia (14: 19), Paul seems to be hinting that the latter practice is problematic and should cease, but he does not want to offend anyone (cf. 8:11-13).

No to you too. All those scriptures have been gone over in this thread more than once. Where were you? I have no idea what top is.
I am not confused and I have read enough of your posts to not care about your opinion. We are not anywhere near discussing your top 107 but there is quite the list for the fruit of the Spirit. I did not read your entire post because at this point? zzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Magenta]

I believe that TrustandObey simply used the Mormons as an example of using "Jesus as Lord" as a farce.

Now that I answered your question what was your reason for bringing the phrase up?

I am not your enemy on this issue. I also believe that the simple use of the phrase does not mean that it is from the Holy Spirit.

I originally quoted you, and even before this, I was quoting you, not someone else.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...e-gift-of-tongues.218661/page-23#post-5487438

Why do people need the obvious explained to them again and again? I have already said why.

 

[ocean]

What is the word of truth, the gospel of salvation referenced in Ephesians? The scripture specifically states those who trusted in Jesus believed the word of truth and were sealed with the Holy Ghost of promise.

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," Eph. 1:13

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized (their belief of the word of truth prompted by their trust in Jesus prompted them to act): and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:38-42

Took you quite awhile to get to this one. We will not agree and I can prove from scripture why your view is not actually found in scripture. Baptism does not save. The washing is done by the word; NOT water and that's all. Not going to turn this thread into a repent and be baptized thread or what exactly the order is or in whose name to be baptized.

No thank you.

Besides, I am sealed, I am baptized and have received the Holy Spirit with a couple of spiritual gifts.

(and if any cessationist comes along and wants to smugly go all over that again, don't bother. I have a low boredom threshold)

 

[Lamar]

I do not have supernatural abilities. It is the Holy Spirit in the believer who gives the gifts at God's discretion and who works through a person.

Your are rather disingenuous in your comments.

If you claim to have been given the ability to speak in a language by supernatural means then you have supernatural abilities.

You sound like a slick salesperson trying to hide their true self.

 

[ocean]

Your are rather disingenuous in your comments.

If you claim to have been given the ability to speak in a language by supernatural means then you have supernatural abilities.

You sound like a slick salesperson trying to hide their true self.

No. I am always upfront, real and more than you and your cessationist friends can handle which is why you have nothing to offer; never anything new; false accusations and the same boring things until a person falls asleep if they care to read it.

Perhaps God in His wisdom has chosen to pass over giving spiritual gifts to people who deny them.

 

[ocean]

Such claims are merely that, and such testimony may actually serve to discourage those
who think they also should "know" Jesus face to face or walk with him by proof rather than by faith.
Rather than going gaga over glossalalia, Paul indicated that we should seek the more excellent way of love and witnessing with words.

The Bible is chock full of people having experiences with God and all kinds of supernatural occurrences. Paul said to earnestly desire spiritual gifts. Gaga? I think that may be your perception. Have you never experienced God in a way that fills you with His presence to the point you don't want to leave?

I don't know. Perhaps that is not for everyone