Clear verses about the deity of Christ

[trofimus]

Hello Trofimus,

Here's a couple more to add to the list list:

"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel." For those who are unaware, Immanuel means "with us is God." - Isaiah 7:14

"as we await the blessed hope and glorious appearance of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ." - Titus 2:13

"Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. - Rom.9:5

Is 7:14 is partially good imo, you could also use the fact that if Jesus was concieved by the Holy Spirit, He must be God because the Holy Spirit is God. But it is not explicit.

Tit 2:13 was given also by dino, it is a good a solid one, but you must convince your opponent to know and accept Granwille-Sharp rule.

Rom 9:5 is not a good one, imho. More probable translation is "...human ancestry of Christ. Let God, who is over all, be praised forever. Amen"

 

[trofimus]

And another... John 8:58: "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

Technically, it only says that He existed before Abraham, not that He is God There certainly are many beings who do not die and exist for ages.

 

[trofimus]

Some Christians are having difficulty to believe that Lord Jesus is also God because for them the oneness of God is numeric one.

if Jesus is included then it will be two.

and some uses the verse in Hosea 11:9 that God is not man and John 17:3 that Jesus introduced the Father as the only true God.

now how will you refute what I have stated here?

With the 5 verses in my OP.

Hosea 11:9 was before incarnation, God really was not man in that time. Christ was born of Marry in about 0 AD.

John 17:3 - Jesus had a relation to His Father as to His God (J 20:17), Jesus was our example and our teacher. But other verses like in my OP reveals that He is God also.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Is 7:14 is partially good imo, you could also use the fact that if Jesus was concieved by the Holy Spirit, He must be God because the Holy Spirit is God. But it is not explicit.

Tit 2:13 was given also by dino, it is a good a solid one, but you must convince your opponent to know and accept Granwille-Sharp rule.

Rom 9:5 is not a good one, imho. More probable translation is "...human ancestry of Christ. Let God, who is over all, be praised forever. Amen"

I would think that it was a lot more than partial. How many people have been born of a virgin whose designation is "God with us?" When you match that up with Mary not knowing a man and conceiving the Lord Jesus as being Immanuel, I think that Jesus as being God is undeniable.

 

[trofimus]

I would think that it was a lot more than partial. How many people have been born of a virgin whose designation is "God with us?" When you match that up with Mary not knowing a man and conceiving the Lord Jesus as being Immanuel, I think that Jesus as being God is undeniable.

To be called something and to be something is a different thing. Many Jewish names had/has various meanings related to God. So you would have to convince your opponent that this time its literal and not just symbolical (like God was presented to us by Jesus).

I agree its a good verse. It will just need some more work when used. Combined with the conception of the Holy Spirit, it should be sufficient

 

[JaumeJ]

Isa 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name is called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the growth of his government and peace there will be no end. He will rule over his kingdom, sitting on the throne of David, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness from this time onward and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of the Heavenly Armies will accomplish this

 

[jameen]

Another reasons why some doubted that divinity of Jesus because if Jesus is God then why He does not know the day or hours of the Judgment like the Father do in Matthew 24 and also if Jesus is God why will a God be subjected to another God in 1 cor. 15:27-28.

Anyone can try to refute these arguments? thanks

 

[JaumeJ]

Jesus knew He was and is and always has been God. He often referred to God in the third person, and why not. It is the Holy Spirit Who reveals God to all man, not flesh, and it was not yet time. Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to all who would receive Him after H ascended, Pentecost.

 

[trofimus]

Another reasons why some doubted that divinity of Jesus because if Jesus is God then why He does not know the day or hours of the Judgment like the Father do in Matthew 24 and also if Jesus is God why will a God be subjected to another God in 1 cor. 15:27-28.

Anyone can try to refute these arguments? thanks

Again, the five verses in my OP. Jesus is clearly God.

Why he did not know this or that is a theological question, not an argument that He is not God. It would be a contradiction.

 

[Noose]

Another reasons why some doubted that divinity of Jesus because if Jesus is God then why He does not know the day or hours of the Judgment like the Father do in Matthew 24 and also if Jesus is God why will a God be subjected to another God in 1 cor. 15:27-28.

Anyone can try to refute these arguments? thanks

Yes, you have the right to ask such questions because these scriptures are often misunderstood.
You have to know God- His nature and practical ways.

I would define God as eternal attributes that are true, found in His spirit (the spirit of truth), expressed as His word.
So basically, knowing that the spirit means mind, we can say God is a mind/consciousness of truth. This is what you can collect from the entire bible and put in words that define God.

I'll use specific examples: God is eternal knowledge & wisdom and because these attributes are true, they must be accomplished at some point in time. So at the right time, God through wisdom and knowledge created the heavens and the earth.

God is eternal love and at the right time, He took flesh so that He can lay down His life for others for there's no greater love than a man willingly putting their life on the line for the sake of others.
All these must be accomplished because God is truth.Knowing that God is a mind, there are two ways in which the mind can be expressed; through what is said and through the actions of the flesh. Both actions and words is what we call 'the word' or Jesus.

One of the practical ways of God is that He came in flesh to explain/demonstrate sonship to us through the actions of His flesh (works) and through His words. That is why Jesus insisted on His words being the bread of life but also His flesh (works). Even sometimes He told them to at least believe the works if they don't believe His words.

It is very important to note that the authority of the son is on the earth. Jesus only comes to demonstrate that authority to us but that authority belongs to believers.
Through the believers, God establishes a kingdom here on earth that will reign forever and at the end, when everything is said and done, the initial conditions that were in the garden of eden before man sinned, will be restored- there will be peace/joy/knowledge/wisdom/love in the hearts of believers. This is what it means to hand over authority to God and defeating His enemies because God is all these good attributes/truth in the hearts of men. 1 Cor 15- the son hands back the authority to God. Son here means us.

Regarding the hour. Jesus carefully chose the words to use. He did not mean that He doesn't know the hour, as long as Jesus hold the title alpha and omega (beginning and the end), He knows everything. He clearly said the 'son doesn't know the hour' meaning that we don't know the hour. In another passage, asnwering a similar question, He said:

Acts 1:7 Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority.

So Jesus said that the son doesn't know the hour simply because it is not for us to know the times and season with regards to the end of age.

 

[Dino246]

Of course you don't since it was the Holy Ghost who revealed unto Pharaoh that Sarai was the wife of Abram and it was Holy Ghost who revealed to Abimelech the king of Gerar that Sarah was wife of Abraham.

And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? Ex 3:13

I still don't see the relevance to the subject of this thread. Beginning your post with "Of course you don't..." just comes across as an insult, which if so, is quite unnecessary.

 

[Dino246]

I was thinking about Titus 2:13 too, but can it be translated as "glory of our great God [one person] and Saviour Jesus Christ [second person]"?

There is some rule in Greek (Granwille-Sharp rule) implying that its one person because of the grammar structure, but it would again lead to discussion about Greek rules...

Understandable, as with John 8:58. That the Jews picked up stones in the next verse indicated that they knew He was equating Himself with God.