CESSATIONISM AND HEALING

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Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#41
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#41
Sudakar said:
So why did Jesus expect faith to be healed from those who came to Him for healing?
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Christ healed many who did not even know He was there, or did not even put their faith in Him. Take some time to study the miracles of Christ. The healing at the pool of Bethsaida is a good example. Another one is the healing of the Gadarene demoniac.

As to miracle workers today, they will not be found in the churches. However, the prayer of faith as noted in James is for the healing of Christians. But again, healing is not always guaranteed, and many fine Christians are sick, diseased, or disabled even after prayers.

Faith healers are generally charlatans, but that is a separate issue.

"Are faith healers the real deal? Is there such a thing as a miracle healer today? If so, why don’t they go to the hospitals and empty them all? What about the children’s cancer ward? If they claim to have miraculous healing powers, why can’t they cure all the sick in the hospitals and the cancer wards?"
Read more: https://www.whatchristianswanttokno...ont-they-often-visit-hospitals/#ixzz6Kz2TyyOh

Those are valid questions.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#42
Sep 14, 2019
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#42
Guojing said:
Because of Christ on the cross, it is always God's will for you to be well.

However, it does not mean you can expect healing to happen immediately like what happened in the 4 gospels and Acts. The final healing can sometimes come only at the redemption of our earthly bodies, to the one Christ had after he resurrected.
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After bodily redemption, there is immortality and a state of no disease and sickness. So what is the need for healing then if not now?

Mathew 8:16: "When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses".

Jesus took our infirmities and bore our sicknesses to be fulfilled in this life.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#43
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#43
Nehemiah6 said:
Christ healed many who did not even know He was there, or did not even put their faith in Him. Take some time to study the miracles of Christ. The healing at the pool of Bethsaida is a good example. Another one is the healing of the Gadarene demoniac.

As to miracle workers today, they will not be found in the churches. However, the prayer of faith as noted in James is for the healing of Christians. But again, healing is not always guaranteed, and many fine Christians are sick, diseased, or disabled even after prayers.

Faith healers are generally charlatans, but that is a separate issue.

"Are faith healers the real deal? Is there such a thing as a miracle healer today? If so, why don’t they go to the hospitals and empty them all? What about the children’s cancer ward? If they claim to have miraculous healing powers, why can’t they cure all the sick in the hospitals and the cancer wards?"
Read more: https://www.whatchristianswanttokno...ont-they-often-visit-hospitals/#ixzz6Kz2TyyOh

Those are valid questions.
Click to expand...
Mathew 8:16: "When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses".

Jesus took our infirmities and bore our sicknesses to be fulfilled in this life.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#44
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#44
Sudakar said:
Jesus took our infirmities and bore our sicknesses to be fulfilled in this life.
Click to expand...
If you are suggesting that every believer must be 100% healthy throughout their lives based on that, they you do have a serious misunderstanding about healing. Paul prayed three times to be healed of his infirmity, and the Lord denied his request. Epaphroditus nearly died but the prayer of faith brought him back to life.

On the other hand if you believer you are a worker of miracles, get busy. You have your work cut out for you.
 
wolfwint

wolfwint

Senior Member
#45
Feb 15, 2014
3,778
943
113
62
#45
Sudakar said:
Mathew 8:16: "When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:

8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses".

If it was the Father's will to keep you in sickness, why would He send His Son to take our infirmities, and bear our sicknesses?
Click to expand...
He sent his son to gave us far more then our health. Eternal life!! Read John 20,30-31.
And Think over it. All HE healed physcal died later. Even Lazarus died later again. So would be his Goal to heal mankind from there physical sickness His deeds where inperfect. His Goal was to give us eternal life and in this His deed was perfect.
What you are doing with your claime is bringing people in pressure. Because according your belief they are sick because of their own lack on faith. Thats heartless and bases on a false teaching.
We should Trust our heavenly father in all things that is true. But HE never promissed us a life in health on this present earth.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#46
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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#46
Sudakar said:
After bodily redemption, there is immortality and a state of no disease and sickness. So what is the need for healing then if not now?

Mathew 8:16: "When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses".

Jesus took our infirmities and bore our sicknesses to be fulfilled in this life.
Click to expand...
I have already addressed your point on the reasons for Jesus healing during the 4 gospels. Have you seen it?

Churches who preach that signs and wonders still hold today overwhelmingly used evidence from the 4 gospels and early Acts.

They often do not mention that those healings were part of the gospel of the kingdom. When the physical kingdom is set up at Jerusalem, no one is supposed to be sick. Hence Jesus healed to tell the Jews that it was at hand.

So the question you should ask is, "Do we still preach to the Jews to repent for the kingdom is at hand?" If your answer is yes, then go ahead and call forth those signs.

But if those signs are not seen today, then perhaps another set of good news is to be preached today. That is 1 Cor 15:1-4.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#47
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#47
Nehemiah6 said:
If you are suggesting that every believer must be 100% healthy throughout their lives based on that, they you do have a serious misunderstanding about healing. Paul prayed three times to be healed of his infirmity, and the Lord denied his request. Epaphroditus nearly died but the prayer of faith brought him back to life.

On the other hand if you believer you are a worker of miracles, get busy. You have your work cut out for you.
Click to expand...
Paul was denied because instead of believing His grace, he was exalting himself.

In the case of Epaphroditus, faith was tested. But faith never fails.

Instead of focussing on people like benny hinn, t.b.joshua, create awareness of the above truth. That will prevent people from seeking them or doctors and thereby lose their wealth.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#48
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#48
Guojing said:
I have already addressed your point on the reasons for Jesus healing during the 4 gospels. Have you seen it?

Churches who preach that signs and wonders still hold today overwhelmingly used evidence from the 4 gospels and early Acts.

They often do not mention that those healings were part of the gospel of the kingdom. When the physical kingdom is set up at Jerusalem, no one is supposed to be sick. Hence Jesus healed to tell the Jews that it was at hand.

So the question you should ask is, "Do we still preach to the Jews to repent for the kingdom is at hand?" If your answer is yes, then go ahead and call forth those signs.

But if those signs are not seen today, then perhaps another set of good news is to be preached today. That is 1 Cor 15:1-4.
Click to expand...
You are confusing between signs and faith. Faith is universal. If Epaphroditus can be healed by faith in Christ, anyone who believes can be healed by faith.

Don't be obsessed about signs and allow people visit people like benny hinn & by missing out on the truth about faith which saves them from wrath & diseases.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#49
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#49
Sudakar said:
You are confusing between signs and faith. Faith is universal. If Epaphroditus can be healed by faith in Christ, anyone who believes can be healed by faith.

Don't be obsessed about signs and allow people visit people like benny hinn & by missing out on the truth about faith which saves them from wrath & diseases.
Click to expand...
I am not, I am merely saying to you that Jesus healing the sick when he was in the flesh were not random acts of kindness.

The healings serve as a sign to the Jews that their Messiah has arrived in the flesh, as you also quoted from that Matthew passage. The Jews always needed signs and wonders to authenticate anyone who claims he is sent by God. It started in Exodus 4.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#50
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#50
wolfwint said:
He sent his son to gave us far more then our health. Eternal life!! Read John 20,30-31.
And Think over it. All HE healed physcal died later. Even Lazarus died later again. So would be his Goal to heal mankind from there physical sickness His deeds where inperfect. His Goal was to give us eternal life and in this His deed was perfect.
What you are doing with your claime is bringing people in pressure. Because according your belief they are sick because of their own lack on faith. Thats heartless and bases on a false teaching.
We should Trust our heavenly father in all things that is true. But HE never promissed us a life in health on this present earth.
Click to expand...
W (wolfwint): He sent his son to gave us far more then our health. Eternal life!! Read John 20,30-31.
And Think over it. All HE healed physcal died later. Even Lazarus died later again. So would be his Goal to heal mankind from there physical sickness His deeds where inperfect. His Goal was to give us eternal life and in this His deed was perfect.
M (Me): Do you have eternal life? If yes, won't you die? If you will die and yet believe to receive eternal life, why not let christians believe to receive healing?

W: What you are doing with your claime is bringing people in pressure. Because according your belief they are sick because of their own lack on faith. Thats heartless and bases on a false teaching.
M: By not teaching christians about faith to be healed, you are driving them to despair, trust in doctors & people like benny hinn who snatch their money. That's true heartlessness!

W: We should Trust our heavenly father in all things that is true. But HE never promissed us a life in health on this present earth.
M: Mathew 8:17 is for all believers and not just for the Jews. Allow christians be healed, so they could preach the gospel.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#51
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#51
Guojing said:
I am not, I am merely saying to you that Jesus healing the sick when he was in the flesh were not random acts of kindness.

The healings serve as a sign to the Jews that their Messiah has arrived in the flesh, as you also quoted from that Matthew passage. The Jews always needed signs and wonders to authenticate anyone who claims he is sent by God. It started in Exodus 4.
Click to expand...
2 Corinthians 1: 20: "For however many are the promises of God, in him (Christ) is the "Yes." Therefore also through him is the "Amen," to the glory of God through us".

Epaphroditus, a christian, was healed not by a sign or a doctor but by faith in Christ's work on the cross by taking infirmities & bearing sicknesses upon Himself.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#52
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#52
Sudakar said:
2 Corinthians 1: 20: "For however many are the promises of God, in him (Christ) is the "Yes." Therefore also through him is the "Amen," to the glory of God through us".

Epaphroditus, a christian, was healed not by a sign or a doctor but by faith in Christ's work on the cross by taking infirmities & bearing sicknesses upon Himself.
Click to expand...
So why did Paul advised Timothy to drink wine instead of water in account for his frequent sickness?
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#53
Sep 14, 2019
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48
#53
Guojing said:
So why did Paul advised Timothy to drink wine instead of water in account for his frequent sickness?
Click to expand...
2 Corinthians 11:17: "That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting".

Christ alone is perfect, paul is not.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#54
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#54
Sudakar said:
Mark 9:21 Jesus asked the boy’s father, “How long has he been like this?” “From childhood,” he answered.

9:22 “It has often thrown him into fire or water to kill him. But if you can do anything, take pity on us and help us.”

9:23 “ ‘If you can’?” said Jesus. “Everything is possible for one who believes.”

9:24 Immediately the boy’s father exclaimed, “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!”

Jesus expected faith if one desires healing. Don't you desire healing? Do you desire to remain sick and die?
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You fail to address the fact that unsaved people are healed everyday.

God is sovereign in healing. God heals whom He wishes to heal.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#55
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#55
notuptome said:
You fail to address the fact that unsaved people are healed everyday.

God is sovereign in healing. God heals whom He wishes to heal.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
Wasn't Epaphroditus healed not by sign or a doctor but by faith in Christ's work on the cross?
If you don't teach the above, you will sending more christians to benny hinn for them to lose their wealth!
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#56
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#56
Sudakar said:
Wasn't Epaphroditus healed not by sign or a doctor but by faith in Christ's work on the cross?
If you don't teach the above, you will sending more christians to benny hinn for them to lose their wealth!
Click to expand...
Still you do not answer the question. Why are unsaved people healed and saints of God go on in their infirmities?

You do not address the sovereignty of God in healing. You lack a sufficient foundation in Christ to give an answer of merit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#57
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
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#57
Sudakar said:
So why did Jesus expect faith to be healed from those who came to Him for healing?
Click to expand...
Because who come to HIM must believe that HE is and a rewarder of them that seek him diligently. God shows Mercy on those who did not ask. He rains on the Just and unjust a like. Are saying God nature is not to heal when HE created man with healing?
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#58
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#58
notuptome said:
Still you do not answer the question. Why are unsaved people healed and saints of God go on in their infirmities?

You do not address the sovereignty of God in healing. You lack a sufficient foundation in Christ to give an answer of merit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
You: Why are unsaved people healed and saints of God go on in their infirmities?
The unsaved are healed because God is kind to the wicked also.
Christians go on in their infirmities because faith is tested.

You do not address the sovereignty of God in healing.
Sovereignty works through faith for the elect.

You lack a sufficient foundation in Christ to give an answer of merit.
What foundation you have? Explain. My foundation is faith in Christ's merits.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#59
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
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#59
CS1 said:
Because who come to HIM must believe that HE is and a rewarder of them that seek him diligently. God shows Mercy on those who did not ask. He rains on the Just and unjust a like. Are saying God nature is not to heal when HE created man with healing?
Click to expand...
How was Epaphroditus healed?
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#60
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#60
Sudakar said:
Paul was denied because instead of believing His grace, he was exalting himself.
Click to expand...
Paul was not exalting himself, but the Lord was keeping him humble even though he was a humble man. Paul was very reluctant to tell the churches about himself, but was forced to do so.
 
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