Catholicism vs Protestantism
- Thread starter Roughsoul1991
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You are welcome, Dan 
Would you agree, then, that @Bede was wrong to claim "Do you realise that that calling the Catholic Church (CC) the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) was a pejorative term invented by Protestants at the Reformation and therefore not only incorrect but insulting" ? Since a pope used the phrase hundreds of years prior to that, calling it a pejorative intended to insult also seems like overkill, and a playing of the victim card.
Would you agree, then, that @Bede was wrong to claim "Do you realise that that calling the Catholic Church (CC) the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) was a pejorative term invented by Protestants at the Reformation and therefore not only incorrect but insulting" ? Since a pope used the phrase hundreds of years prior to that, calling it a pejorative intended to insult also seems like overkill, and a playing of the victim card. The Roman Church is mentioned no less than four times. Is it not Catholic? Gosh.
One mention by pope INNOCENT III (in 1208) specifically says:
423 By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics but
the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic (Church) outside which we believe that no one is saved.
It is true: expecting you to admit when you are wrong is expecting too much
One mention by pope INNOCENT III (in 1208) specifically says:
423 By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics but
the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic (Church) outside which we believe that no one is saved.
It is true: expecting you to admit when you are wrong is expecting too much
I have seen you and Jackson going back and forth for months and months and months, perhaps not always on this same issue. I do not have an inclination for that type of prolonged dialogue on such matters. Do you think either of you have changed how the other thinks or what they believe on these issues? I would like to commend both of you for doing so respectfully with each other Even if you have not made any real headway with each other, perhaps others have benefitted in some way from your conversatiton
I would like to commend both of you for doing so respectfully with each other Even if you have not made any real headway with each other, perhaps others have benefitted in some way from your conversatiton -
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B
The Roman Church is mentioned no less than four times. Is it not Catholic? Gosh.
One mention by pope INNOCENT III (in 1208) specifically says:
423 By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics but
the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic (Church) outside which we believe that no one is saved.
It is true: expecting you to admit when you are wrong is expecting too much
One mention by pope INNOCENT III (in 1208) specifically says:
423 By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics but
the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic (Church) outside which we believe that no one is saved.
It is true: expecting you to admit when you are wrong is expecting too much
What you quote is Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic (Church).
Note the comma after Roman. That is very important.
At the first Vatican Council (1868-70) the English bishops argued against the term Roman Catholic Church which appeared in a draft. They wanted the term Roman removed, or at least a comma put in after Roman. Eventually the term "the holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church" or, by separating each adjective, as "the holy, catholic, apostolic and Roman Church". (quote from Wikipedia).
The Catechism is the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
I've looked through four documents from the Second Vatican Council where I would expect the name of the Church to appear:
Nostra Aetate (The Relation Of The Church To Non-Christian Religions
Gaudium Et Spes (The Church In The Modern World
Lumen Gentium Several (Dogmatic Constitution On The Church)
Orientalium Ecclesiarum (The Catholic Churches Of The Eastern Rite)
All use only the term Catholic Church (several times in two documents), except once the term Holy Catholic Church is used.
Catholic Church is the name of the Church not Roman Catholic Church.
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You are correct, but another of the little horn (Roman Emperor) did.
Thanks for the correction, here it is.
In 313, the struggles of the Early Church, were lessened by the Edict of Milan legalization of Christianity by the Emperor Constantine I. In 380, under Emperor Theodosius, Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire by the Edict of Thessaloniki.
Thanks for the correction, here it is.
In 313, the struggles of the Early Church, were lessened by the Edict of Milan legalization of Christianity by the Emperor Constantine I. In 380, under Emperor Theodosius, Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire by the Edict of Thessaloniki.
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A tecnicality you find to hide the truth
The emperor [Constantine] became a great patron of the Church and set a precedent for the position of the Christian emperor within the Church and raised the notions of orthodoxy, Christendom, ecumenical councils, and the state church of the Roman Empire declared by edict in 380.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great_and_Christianity#:~:text=The emperor became a great,declared by edict in 380.
So here you have a non-believer, a non baptized person, a pagan, who took control over the church. He dictated events and changed the course and structure of the church.
The influence of Constantine would help solidify a strong role for the Roman emperor in the selection process of pope.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishops_of_Rome_under_Constantine_the_Great
To paraphrase, Constantine made the pope a stooge for the Roman Empire.
The emperor [Constantine] became a great patron of the Church and set a precedent for the position of the Christian emperor within the Church and raised the notions of orthodoxy, Christendom, ecumenical councils, and the state church of the Roman Empire declared by edict in 380.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great_and_Christianity#:~:text=The emperor became a great,declared by edict in 380.
So here you have a non-believer, a non baptized person, a pagan, who took control over the church. He dictated events and changed the course and structure of the church.
The influence of Constantine would help solidify a strong role for the Roman emperor in the selection process of pope.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishops_of_Rome_under_Constantine_the_Great
To paraphrase, Constantine made the pope a stooge for the Roman Empire.
Yes.
1 John 2:21-23
I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
1 John 2:21-23
I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
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This PROVES my POINT!!!!!!!!
Anyone who cites the Nicene Creed is pledging allegiance to the Holy Catholic and Apostolic [Roman] Church.
They of course leave out the Roman to deceive, but as seen in the above context Roman is clearly inferred but omitted from the Nicene Creed.
Deceitful as the devil they are!
Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed[edit]
What is known as the "Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed" or the "Nicene–Constantinopolitan Creed"[21] received this name because of a belief that it was adopted at the Second Ecumenical Council held in Constantinople in 381 as a modification of the original Nicene Creed of 325. In that light, it also came to be very commonly known simply as the "Nicene Creed". It is the only authoritative ecumenical statement of the Christian faith accepted by the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, the Church of the East, much of Protestantism including the Anglican communion.
Anyone who cites the Nicene Creed is pledging allegiance to the Holy Catholic and Apostolic [Roman] Church.
They of course leave out the Roman to deceive, but as seen in the above context Roman is clearly inferred but omitted from the Nicene Creed.
Deceitful as the devil they are!
Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed[edit]
What is known as the "Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed" or the "Nicene–Constantinopolitan Creed"[21] received this name because of a belief that it was adopted at the Second Ecumenical Council held in Constantinople in 381 as a modification of the original Nicene Creed of 325. In that light, it also came to be very commonly known simply as the "Nicene Creed". It is the only authoritative ecumenical statement of the Christian faith accepted by the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, the Church of the East, much of Protestantism including the Anglican communion.
