Catholic Heresy (for the record)

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valiant

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Mar 22, 2015
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mattp0625 said:
Jackson123 said:
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Yes nice picture. Face value - look at the man praying to the statue.
What is really happening, friend, is he is kneeling to honor Mary, with the statue as a reminder (e.g. he is not attaching divinity to the statue) asking her for her prayer.

The issue here is you are using a picture at face value, assuming you know everything that is happening, and assuming you know Catholic beliefs better than Catholics do.

The next issue is that you are using false accusations to openly discredit a faith.
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so you deny that that is a graven image? what then is it?

you shall not make to yourself a graven image in the likeness of ANY form in the heavens above, or in the earth beneath, or in the waters under the earth, YOU SHALL NOT BOW DOWN TO THEM ---.' (Exod 20.4-5; Deut 5.9). Pretty clear really, except to Roman Catholic scholars,-
 
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valiant

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Mar 22, 2015
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mattp0625 said:
Ok. Who has the real truth? The forefathers of the Lutherans? The Adventists? The Baptists? The Methodists? The Pentecostals? The Presbyterians?

Then, I await your qualifications.
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NONE. The Scriptures have the real truth. The best qualified to understand them, according to Jesus, is the child. What were Jesus' qualifications?
 
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mattp0625

Guest
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valiant said:
NONE. The Scriptures have the real truth. The best qualified to understand them, according to Jesus, is the child. What were Jesus' qualifications?
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Apologies sir, but Jesus you are not, nor on the same level as the Master, nor more favored than Mary, nor more qualified than Pope Benedict, but most of all, you are not the issuer of condemnation.
 
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mattp0625

Guest
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#3,545
valiant said:
so you deny that that is a graven image? what then is it?

you shall not make to yourself a graven image in the likeness of ANY form in the heavens above, or in the earth beneath, or in the waters under the earth, YOU SHALL NOT BOW DOWN TO THEM ---.' (Exod 20.4-5; Deut 5.9). Pretty clear really, except to Roman Catholic scholars,-
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It's called a reminder! Please.
 
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Jackson123

Senior Member
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Feb 6, 2014
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mattp0625 said:
Yes nice picture. Face value - look at the man praying to the statue.
What is really happening, friend, is he is kneeling to honor Mary, with the statue as a reminder (e.g. he is not attaching divinity to the statue) asking her for her prayer.

The issue here is you are using a picture at face value, assuming you know everything that is happening, and assuming you know Catholic beliefs better than Catholics do.

The next issue is that you are using false accusations to openly discredit a faith.
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Full Definition of WORSHIP

1
chiefly British : a person of importance —used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)

2
: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence

3
: a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual

4
: extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem<worship of the dollar>

A. Definition of worship is extravagant respect.

If I make statue of Mary mean and bow before it mean.:

I believe Mary is omnipresence/ deity. because only God is omnipresent.

mean extravagant respect or worship.

B. You said I make false accusation. In my 2 post above I am not make any comment, only post a photo.
 
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mattp0625

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#3,547
notuptome said:
Arrogance to assume that it matters what your church teaches outside of your church. Hypocritical in that you cannot save yourself. If a blind man leads a blind man will they both not fall in the ditch?

Teach from the bible and not the RCC catechism.

The fields are white unto harvest but the laborers are few.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Sir, if you would be so kind, please show me your wedding liturgy in the bible. Then, if you will, please show me the formation of your church in the bible.
 
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mattp0625

Guest
#3,548
#3,548
Jackson123 said:
Full Definition of WORSHIP

1
chiefly British : a person of importance —used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)

2
: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence

3
: a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual

4
: extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem<worship of the dollar>

A. Definition of worship is extravagant respect.

If I make statue of Mary mean and bow before it mean.:

I believe Mary is omnipresence/ deity. because only God is omnipresent.

mean extravagant respect or worship.

B. You said I make false accusation. In my 2 post above I am not make any comment, only post a photo.
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Red, bold letters and a dictionary do not add credit to your statements.
 
notuptome

notuptome

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mattp0625 said:
Sir, if you would be so kind, please show me your wedding liturgy in the bible. Then, if you will, please show me the formation of your church in the bible.
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This is a red herring. You are deflecting the subject with another unrelated subject.

Born again believers are the church. You no doubt are seeking the organization not the organism. This is of course of no merit since Christ never established any organization but He did birth an organism. Our admonition from scripture is not to forsake the assembling together as is the manner of some.

The bible says that a man shall leave his mother and father and cleave unto his wife and they shall become one flesh.

The ceremony is up to the discretion of the parties involved.

We render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's. Government has many regulations with which we ought to comply regarding the establishment of a local congregation of believers and the formal legal recognition of the marital union. The church has no such obligations to God.

The fields are white unto harvest but the laborers are few.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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mattp0625

Guest
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#3,550
notuptome said:
This is a red herring. You are deflecting the subject with another unrelated subject.

Born again believers are the church. You no doubt are seeking the organization not the organism. This is of course of no merit since Christ never established any organization but He did birth an organism. Our admonition from scripture is not to forsake the assembling together as is the manner of some.

The bible says that a man shall leave his mother and father and cleave unto his wife and they shall become one flesh.

The ceremony is up to the discretion of the parties involved.

We render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's. Government has many regulations with which we ought to comply regarding the establishment of a local congregation of believers and the formal legal recognition of the marital union. The church has no such obligations to God.

The fields are white unto harvest but the laborers are few.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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The point, sir, is the RCC catechism is as much outside of the bible as the 'age of accountability', the formation of your church, or your wedding liturgy. Unless, sir, your statements mischaracterize the nature of the catechism.
 
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Jackson123

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mattp0625 said:
Red, bold letters and a dictionary do not add credit to your statements.
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Base on dictionary, if a man make a statue and bow in front of it, doesn't mean worship?

You said it is a respect and extra respect is worship.


If you respect your parent do you make statue and bow in front of it?

Do you believe Mary aware if you bow in front of her statue? if so Mary is omnipresence /god.

Mean : bow before her statue is declare she is omnipresence/declare she is god.

And you believe she is queen of heaven anyway
 
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mattp0625

Guest
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#3,552
Jackson123 said:
Base on dictionary, if a man make a statue and bow in front of it, doesn't mean worship?

You said it is a respect and extra respect is worship.


If you respect your parent do you make statue and bow in front of it?

Do you believe Mary aware if you bow in front of her statue? if so Mary is omnipresence /god.

Mean : bow before her statue is declare she is omnipresence/declare she is god.

And you believe she is queen of heaven anyway
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No, Mary is a saint in heaven, highly favored by God, and mother of my Lord. My parents are not!! Duh!
Again, you presume to know Catholic intercessory prayer better than Catholics! Using some internet pictures, a dictionary, and red letters to prove it!
 
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Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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#3,553
mattp0625 said:
No, Mary is a saint in heaven, highly favored by God, and mother of my Lord. My parents are not!! Duh!
Again, you presume to know Catholic intercessory prayer better than Catholics! Using some internet pictures, a dictionary, and red letters to prove it!
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You respect your parent and not make a statue of your parent and not bow before they statue. because you stop at the level of respect not worship.


Pope bow before statue of Mary, it mean he goes to the next level not only respect but extra respect or worship.

Simple brother. don't let catholic direct you to hell. Go to Jesus not Mary or catholic.

To know the precise meaning of a word I go to dictionary, I am not make my own definition. What's a wrong whit what I did.

Any suggestion how to know the precise meaning of a word?

Picture is a fact, I am not make it up brother. Fell free to Goggle or ask your church if that picture is manipulation.

Can you prove I am the one who manipulate that picture, and Pope never worship that image?
 
F

fordman

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Feb 6, 2015
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kaylagrl said:
My pastor prays along WITH me,he has no more special powers or line to God then I do. The Bible says we can come "boldly before the throne". We dont need anyone to pray for us.Christ is the link between God and man.We dont need a priest/pastor as a go between.That was OT.
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Really???? you've never in your life ever asked anyone to pray for you? Wow!! I ask people here on earth and in heaven to pray for me all the time....Lord knows I need it. Kayla, asking a person to pray for you in no way violates Christ’s mediatorship, as can be seen from considering the way in which Christ is a mediator. First, Christ is a unique mediator between man and God because he is the only person who is both God and man. He is the only bridge between the two, the only God-man. But that role as mediator is not compromised in the least by the fact that others intercede for us. Furthermore, Christ is a unique mediator between God and man because he is the Mediator of the New Covenant (Heb. 9:15, 12:24), just as Moses was the mediator (Greek mesitas) of the Old Covenant (Gal. 3:19–20).

Futhermore...The intercession of fellow Christians—which is what the saints in heaven are—also clearly does not interfere with Christ’s unique mediatorship because in the four verses immediately preceding 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should interceed: "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:1–4). Clearly, then, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something "good and pleasing to God," not something infringing on Christ’s role as mediator.

And I know how to pray in tongues,why would I need Mary or anyone else to pray for me?
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Well Kayala, we on earth are the body of Christ on earth needing grace to persevere to the end which is obtained by prayer. The body of saints in heaven can pray for us for this end as well as help us in special moments of need. "Where two or three are gathered in my name there I am in the midst." And then God especially listens to holy people which the saints are. Mary, the mother of God, being the holiest. To not ask saints to pray for us is like a person who has others around him to help him, but he doesn't ask but prefers to go it alone. Yes, he can do that, but isn't it better to ask friends for help rather than going alone? Our friends in heaven, members of our body, are real as we are real and are more than understanding when asked to help. The communion of saints is something important not just a doctrine. They are willing and wanting to give us a hand, for they are part of the one body of Christ as we. When they love us, they are loving Christ.

First of all Jesus saves us,we dont need Mary to pray for us.Mary did not pray for anyone in the Bible. Jesus did everything on the cross so we can go to HIM in prayer.
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Believe I just addressed that above.

Yes called blessed because she bore the Savior.
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Don't know about you, but I think that in itself is a big deal!!

She was blessed because she obeyed God and bore the Savior.
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Ahhhh....FYI...Mary, conceived without sin, accepted the request without hesitation. She gave her full consent to become the Mother of God. She wasn't forced to "Obey" anything.
HER? Mary was born of parents the same as all of us.Christ died for her sins and saved her like the rest of us.Mary is as human as I am and you are.
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Yes.... "HER" Immaculate Conception. Who elses do you think I was talking about?


In closing kayala, reguarding intercessory prayers, let me ask.... do you ever pray the 'Lord's Prayer'? I will say yes you have sometime in your life. If so, did you know that the entire second part of the Lord's prayer is intercessory prayer where we pray for ourselves and others (us, we, and our)?

Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy Kingdom come,
thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
Give US this day OUR daily bread.
Forgive US OUR trespasses,
as WE forgive those who trespass against US.
And lead US not into temptation,
but deliver US from evil.

Something you might want to think about next time you pray it.



Pax Christi


"From henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." ---Luke 1:48

And I ask again. When was the last time you've done so?
 
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yogosans14

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#3,555
mattp0625 said:
No, Mary is a saint in heaven, highly favored by God, and mother of my Lord. My parents are not!! Duh!
Again, you presume to know Catholic intercessory prayer better than Catholics! Using some internet pictures, a dictionary, and red letters to prove it!
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Dont let them bother you...Some are still stuck in the reformation sadly lol.

I think the RCC is christian and the early church father writings seemed to be catholic. I'm taking RCIA when it starts and I might convert to the RCC :)
 
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mattp0625

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#3,557
yogosans14 said:
Dont let them bother you...Some are still stuck in the reformation sadly lol.

I think the RCC is christian and the early church father writings seemed to be catholic. I'm taking RCIA when it starts and I might convert to the RCC :)
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Very nice! Please let me know if I can help or answer any questions.
 
F

fordman

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Feb 6, 2015
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mattp0625 said:
Apologies sir, but Jesus you are not, nor on the same level as the Master, nor more favored than Mary, nor more qualified than Pope Benedict, but most of all, you are not the issuer of condemnation.
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Hey matt. Have you noticed that those I put forth my challenge (valiant,MikeHenderson,KenAllan) have as of yet agreed to accept? I am pretty sure the reason they haven't is because they've done some reasearch. Lol!!! Maybe Jackson123 or notuptome would care to accept. What do ya say fellas??


Pax Christi


"From henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." ----Luke 1:48.
 
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mattp0625

Guest
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#3,560
fordman said:
Hey matt. Have you noticed that those I put forth my challenge (valiant,MikeHenderson,KenAllan) have as of yet agreed to accept? I am pretty sure the reason they haven't is because they've done some reasearch. Lol!!! Maybe Jackson123 or notuptome would care to accept. What do ya say fellas??

Pax Christi


"From henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." ----Luke 1:48.
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Yes, I did notice that. I also noticed they didn't tell me where the age of accountability is in the bible. They also didn't tell me which Protestant sect has the real truth.
 
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