Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

Thats kind of a wonkey example to use of course how you are meaning it the shepherd is in control. He's God. But the example is flawed also cause if I have a pet sheep and call its name the silly thing might ignore me. Ever have a dog not listen let alone a cat haha.

John 10 verses 27-28 My sheep hear My voice, I know them and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand.

 

[studier]

But this verse does:

Does what?
Please be clear so I can respond with some precision.
Also, please explain the verses you post - what precisely in each verse means what you're saying it means.

 

[GWH]

Nah if your friends arnt tempting you to sin i hang out with them still. If they ask about God I tell them the best to my ability. Who knows maybe the words will sink in one day.

Yes, that is our hope and prayer.

 

[GWH]

You have a serious reading comp problem because all those passages I cited are not teaching what you claim. They are teaching that God hates, loathes, despises unrepentant sinners.

No, that is you projecting your hatred onto God, who loves even you.

 

[Magenta]

Thats kind of a wonkey example to use of course how you are meaning it the shepherd is in control. He's God. But the example is flawed also cause if I have a pet sheep and call its name the silly thing might ignore me. Ever have a dog not listen let alone a cat haha.

Good day Jackson, I hope you are well this fine day! I have wondered something and would like to ask you about it, since it seems to me that some people are saying that God can give somebody something and yet that person does not receive it. Now I do understand that there is an element of receiving meaning believing, but I am not asking about that. I know from my own experience that coming to believe is a process in which God draws us through personal revelation of Himself and His love for us, even though some here deny this as a Scriptural reality and refuse to believe that God keeps His promise to do this. So I am wondering, if you can answer: in the same way we are given physical life and had absolutely nothing to do with it being given, do you believe it is possible that God also gives Spiritual life and we have nothing to do with it? Meaning not given to us as a result of anything we have done... simply done as an act of mercy and love on His behalf.

Psalm 118:24

 

[Jackson129]

I was thinking about this a little last night. About 2 different ways to say it.

1. God know every man there ever was ,is, and will be a trillion eons before he ever created us. He knew which of us would call on His name and which wouldn't before ever creating us. And He created us anyways just as we are.

2. God began creating man and was like this goes to heaven ahh these next 7 go to hell. Oh what the heck these 3 im gonna make go to heaven.

Both scenarios fulfill the pre destination slash forknowledge ideas. He knows who is gonna repent and who isint because He knows everything. That dosent mean He forces some to do it and some not to do it. It just means He knew what we were gonna chose before we were ever created.

 

[Jackson129]

Good day Jackson, I hope you are well this fine day! I have wondered something and would like to ask you about it, since it seems to me that some people are saying that God can give somebody something and yet that person does not receive it. Now I do understand that there is an element of receiving meaning believing, but I am not asking about that. I know from my own experience that coming to believe is a process in which God draws us through personal revelation of Himself and His love for us, even though some here deny this as a Scriptural reality and refuse to believe that God keeps His promise to do this. So I am wondering, if you can answer: in the same way we are given physical life and had absolutely nothing to do with it being given, do you believe it is possible that God also gives Spiritual life and we have nothing to do with it? Meaning not given to us as a result of anything we have done... simply done as an act of mercy and love on His behalf.

Psalm 118:24

I absolutely belive God shows mercy to random people even those who dont believe. There's alot to awnser in that question. There is definitely a difference in spiritual life vs physical life. And there is a romans verse that copies an exodus verse. Along the lines of " I will have compassion on who I will have compassion " it is not up to he that runs or he that wills it but to God if mercy is shown." I probably didnt get that exactly right word for word. I dont have a Bible verse machine lol

 

[Magenta]

I was thinking about this a little last night. About 2 different ways to say it.

1. God know every man there ever was ,is, and will be a trillion eons before he ever created us. He knew which of us would call on His name and which wouldn't before ever creating us. And He created us anyways just as we are.

2. God began creating man and was like this goes to heaven ahh these next 7 go to hell. Oh what the heck these 3 im gonna make go to heaven.

Both scenarios fulfill the pre destination slash forknowledge ideas. He knows who is gonna repent and who isint because He knows everything. That dosent mean He forces some to do it and some not to do it. It just means He knew what we were gonna chose before we were ever created.

What about the verse that says He saved us NOT because of anything we had done? It is by His mercy grace and love to be sure and also foreknowledge, but Scripture does not identify that foreknowledge as having anything to do with what we do or do not believe.

You know I get accused of being a Calvinist by people with a derangement syndrome because they are unaware of what I believe even though they pretend otherwise... as many have shown through the many lies they tell, and they also seem to be clueless of the fact, even though |I have pointed this out several times also, that man's inability is not exclusive to Calvinism. My position has for a long time been as expressed in this post (<= link), which I have expressed other times over the years in my time here.

 

[Cameron143]

So good I had to bookmark your post.

It's a specious argument. Even if one consents that receive means take, or appropriate for oneself, James teaches that receiving from God requires faith...James 1:5-7. You have people attaining faith with what? A faith they don't yet possess? If faith is not gifted first, how then can it be exercised to receive Christ?

 

[Jackson129]

What about the verse that says He saved us NOT because of anything we had done? It is by His mercy grace and love to be sure and also foreknowledge, but Scripture does not identify that foreknowledge as having anything to do with what we do or do not believe.

You know I get accused of being a Calvinist by people with a derangement syndrome because they are unaware of what I believe even though they pretend otherwise... as many have shown through the many lies they tell, and they also seem to be clueless of the fact, even though |I have pointed this out several times also, that man's inability is not exclusive to Calvinism. My position has for a long time been as expressed in this post (<= link), which I have expressed other times over the years in my time here.

I think alot of the issues stem from this temperal realm vs eternal realm stuff. Forknowledge is an eternal realm idea ie God's realm as He exist forever. So Him knowing everything we're we're gonna do including repenting or not before we ever existed is differnt then us thinking it has anything to do with what we believe or not Because we have to exist before we experience these things or have faith or repent. God dint create this human for hell and this human for heaven he just knew what decision we were gonna make before he ever created us.

I personally dont care about what denominations people are or arnt from. I believe there are some that are so far out there I can't see how someone with a Bible can walk in thier church. But I aint gonna hate on them for thier beliefs that's between them and God. Putting people into differnt denominations is no differnt than identity politics. IMO. A house divided against itself cannot stand type stuff .

 

[Jackson129]

I will use a parable I've heard they are good ways to explain hard things.

If i have a magic crystal ball that sees the future and 2 days from now my neighbor punches his wife. Then low and behold 2 days later he does just that. It dosent mean I made him do it. It just means I knew he would.

God knew we as Christians were gonna repent because He knows the future. It dosent mean He made us do it or not do it.

IMO that still satisfies forknowledge and pre destination ideas.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

So, you're affirming the efficacious nature of God's grace?

I am affirming that if we repent and believe we will be saved

if we remain in unbelief we will remain condemned

But Gods grace is offered to all

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

If God cannot regenerate a sinner, then who can He regenerate?

If God laid down judgment, that anyone who sins is dead (spiritual death)

then why would God lift his own judgment that he imposed himself. that would kind of defeat the purpose. Not to mention. he is the perfect judge correct. one we can trust? How can we trust a judge that goes back on his own judgment?

Did you come into this world born a saint?

And why can't regeneration come until [after] a person is justified?

Because justification is the legal term for a person who is found innocent of all charges

the very charges that make one dead.

This is a legal issue.. thats the part reformed people do not understand

Redemption is the price Jesus paid. we are redeemed by the blood..

Paul tells us redemption c0omes through faith. the same faith of abrahm

Gal 3: 13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

I mean it is simple logic.. (except for those who are not his who do not need yet to understand this) but people make it so difficult.. even people of God.. -

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Here's a "novel" idea for you: Those who cry out to God do so by His grace -- just like they believe by grace.

Yes they do. you think I thought otherwise.. Thats another complaint I have, people following ISMS who think they know what everyone believes, when they do not have the slightest idea what many they argue with think, then make comments like this out of ignorance.

The point is they believed.. It is this repentance and faith that led them to get on their knees. KNOWING they were lost with no hope without Gods intervention.

 

[GWH]

What about the verse that says He saved us NOT because of anything we had done? It is by His mercy grace and love to be sure and also foreknowledge, but Scripture does not identify that foreknowledge as having anything to do with what we do or do not believe.

You know I get accused of being a Calvinist by people with a derangement syndrome because they are unaware of what I believe even though they pretend otherwise... as many have shown through the many lies they tell, and they also seem to be clueless of the fact, even though |I have pointed this out several times also, that man's inability is not exclusive to Calvinism. My position has for a long time been as expressed in this post (<= link), which I have expressed other times over the years in my time here.

Post #59?
A joke?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I have another question for all your FWers that has to do with another metaphor: In the Shepherd-Sheep relation, who is in control: the shepherd, the sheep or both?

how are you going to feel when you get to heaven and a lost one is not with you. and you find out that God did not even give them an opportunity to be there with you?

please do not tell me you will jump for Joy and praise God..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

One of her general refrains is that God is unfair to do things the way He does. She does seem to feel
entitled to criticize God in this way. Do you think He finds it pleasing? I am inclined to think not.

it has nothing to do with God being faith. it has to do with God being JUST.

The WAGE of sin is DEATH

if God gives someone the gift of life before the sin issue is resolved. God stops being a Just God

 

[Rufus]

One of her general refrains is that God is unfair to do things the way He does. She does seem to feel
entitled to criticize God in this way. Do you think He finds it pleasing? I am inclined to think not.

I'm strongly inclined to agree. She clearly does not think after God's thoughts, nor understand that his ways are not ours. Her emotions have created God in her own image.

 

[Cameron143]

I am affirming that if we repent and believe we will be saved

if we remain in unbelief we will remain condemned

But Gods grace is offered to all

If one repents and believes, are they not already exercising faith?

 

[Rufus]

how are you going to feel when you get to heaven and a lost one is not with you. and you find out that God did not even give them an opportunity to be there with you?

please do not tell me you will jump for Joy and praise God..

That's your answer to my Sheep-Shepherd metaphor? You must think that sheep tend to, protect, watch and control their shepherds, heh?

But by the question you ask, you must also think that the lost deserve opportunities? On what judicial grounds would they merit such opportunities?

And when I get to heaven what makes you think I would dare question God's justice?