Can we be forgiven for sins we won't repent of?

[mailmandan]

10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
This Tell US that after we have received the KNOWLEDGE that something is SIN, AND we go ahead and do it, THAT we are LOST, Till GOD GIVE US the REPENTENCE AND THE FAITH TO TURN FROM THAT SIN.
IF we do not GIVE UP THAT SIN< WE WILL BE DESTROYED WITH THE WICKED, SIN IS WICKEDNESS, AND rebellion, AND LOST.

In regards to Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a ongoing, willful, habitual action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation as eternal IN-securists teach, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. In Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here.

The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.

Strong's Concordance
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

*In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse (and by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.

In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to make believers/nominal Christians, not saved people: But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

So after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a professing believer in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but later renounces his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew Christian community of believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.

 

[Blik]

As David said, “Only against you God, have I sinned.” When we grasp that it is God’s standards that matter, and no other, then we realize that we need a real relationship to exist between Him and us.

If we accept, by faith, that He is who He says He is, then we gain a proper perspective. Confession of sin is for us, as is repentance. Repentance is the natural progression of true confession. When we mature in our understanding, we realize that keeping a short list of transgressions is helpful. We need to 1 John 1:9 on a continual basis. No one that I know has ever been able to avoid sin on their own. I concluded long ago that both confession and repentance are impossible without the power of the Holy Spirit. So, it would seem that until one‘s heart has been touched by God, they dont even have the ability to repent.

Beyond that, Satan has many imposters dwelling amongst us. One needs to learn of the promises of God to see that, “He will never leave or forsake us.”

That knowledge of His faithfulness, will cause us to confess and repent.

God will never leave or forsake us, but we can leave and forsake Him. We are given the freedom to do so. Even some who were obedient angels turned against the Lord and became devils.

 

[Blik]

I
In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to make believers/nominal Christians, not saved people: But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition. .

You seem to think it is impossible for a saved person to rebel against Christ ever again. I find no scripture that tells us that, but scripture speaks of rebellion. I have met people who have rebelled.

 

[mailmandan]

You seem to think it is impossible for a saved person to rebel against Christ ever again. I find no scripture that tells us that, but scripture speaks of rebellion. I have met people who have rebelled.

Those who rebel and never return were not truly born of God. (1 John 2:19) Do you infallibly know the hearts of the alleged Christians (infallibly know they were saved) who you said rebelled?

 

[Sipsey]

God will never leave or forsake us, but we can leave and forsake Him. We are given the freedom to do so. Even some who were obedient angels turned against the Lord and became devils.

I’ve heard this comparison before, but I’m not sure we can equate angels with humans. Yes we are both created by God, but we are indeed quite different as to purpose.

By asserting that humans cannot save themselves, but can Unsave themselves, seems to me illogical.

 

[Blik]

I’ve heard this comparison before, but I’m not sure we can equate angels with humans. Yes we are both created by God, but we are indeed quite different as to purpose.

By asserting that humans cannot save themselves, but can Unsave themselves, seems to me illogical.

It seems to me that logic can be used even comparing that humans cannot save themselves, but can choose to be unsaved.

To be saved is to be forgiven of our sins. We can't forgive ourselves of our sins, but we can choose to not let Christ forgive those sins.

 

[Dino246]

But this is a major subject in these posts. Haven't you read the posts about the ten commandments? 'Even something so innocent as the day you choose to go to church brings out actual fighting, and anyone who mentions the fourth commandment needs to run for cover. Usually a mention of living for Christ brings on a reminder that works won't save and a demand to tell them if you think you are saved by works.

You keep bringing up the issue of Sabbath. You are complaining that "it brings out actual fighting".

Do you see the problem here?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The biblical evidence is that EVERY church age believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Signified by the Day of pentacost, evidenced all through the book of Acts and all through the epistles. Its painfully evident this experience was not happening and never happened in the OT . Your clinging to ONE questionable verse ( which I believe its
the same meaning as absolutely EVERY
Mention of the Holy Spirit is always UPON and amongst. This and the fact that the S and s are interchangeably used . I know you don't have anything beyond this because on a panel during a conference, with the so called giants of the faith ,John Macarthur ect . The best answer to this question was " God always saves the same way " . Thats it , no scripture, no evidence.

Scripture proves scripture, and there are no contradictions between them. I will continue to use this form of study along with the revelation of the Holy Ghost, and ignore other men's interpretation of them.

 

[throughfaith]

WE will not HAVE SALVATION UNLESS WE OVERCOME. SIN AND THE WORLD, trying to pull us back in to SINNING, CHOOSING TO SIN MEANS THAT WE ARE LOST AND HAVE NOT REALLY REPENTED< NOR HAVE OVERCOME ETHER,
2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam [the son] of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
Paul didn't even his self saved till they was fixing to kill him. When he had endured till they was fixing to kill him, then Paul said I have KEPT THE FAITH I HAVE FAULT A GOOD FIGHT,
JUST LIKE JESUS TELLS US, HE THAT ENDURE UNTILL THE END, AS PAUL TELLS US HERE, SO WHAT PAUL SAYS IS WHAT JESUS SAID,
IT IS NOT ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED , THAT IS A LIE OF SATAN THAT WILL CAUSE MANY MANY MANY TO BE LOST , THINKING THEY CAN BE SAVED WHILE THEY ARE SINNING, AND THEY DEFINITELY CAN NOT !!!

Are you SDA ?

 

[throughfaith]

There are some scary theology on this thread . If you do not not believe that today you are saved then you are not saved at all .

 

[Sipsey]

It seems to me that logic can be used even comparing that humans cannot save themselves, but can choose to be unsaved.

To be saved is to be forgiven of our sins. We can't forgive ourselves of our sins, but we can choose to not let Christ forgive those sins.

To be forgiven of sins is only a part of what God does. The Bible states that ”while we were yet sinners” God loved us. According to many, that is impossible.

I understand the difficulty of parsing the truth of Scripture. The problem is that too many see contradictions and simply decide to believe one or the other based on feelings. Denominations and cults have been invented by these feelings . We are not to let emotions be our guide, but the pure word of God. We are to live by every word that proceeded from the mouth of God, and not by picking and choosing what makes us feel good, or coincides with human logic.

If you think for one minute that God has ever made a mistake in choosing who to save, then you have a ways to go. No one can know they are saved according to those who contend ”WE” must maintain it. How can we maintain what we cannot even begin?

 

[Blik]

You keep bringing up the issue of Sabbath. You are complaining that "it brings out actual fighting".

Do you see the problem here?

No but I am well aware that you can see problems readily. If you see one your accusing becomes over the moon.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You are deceived,
Hebrews10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
James 5:18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.
5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
2 peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
I WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT THE ONLY WAY THEY COULD GET WASHED IS THROUGH THE BLOOD OF YESUAH, THIS tells us that if we fall back out in SIN THAT IT WILL BE WORSE FOR THOSE THAT WAS SAVED, THEN THOSE THAT THAT HAVE NEVER KNOWN THE WAY, THEY WILL HAFT TO SUFFER MORE,

Heb 10:26-27, These verses have reference to God's judgement upon "his people". verse 30, For wem know him that has said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord, and again, The Lord shall judge his people, verse 31, It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

James 5:18-20, No man can save a soul eternally, only by God's sovereign grace can that happen. Save, according to Greek = deliver. Anyone that teaches the truth to a person, and converts him, has delivered (saved), not eternally, but here in time, that man from the error of his false belief. Death, according to Greek = separation. The converter has separated the converted from believing in a false doctrine.

2 Pet 2:20-22, Once a regenerated person turns away from God due to his lust of the things of this world, he loses his fellowship with God, not his eternal inheritance. 1 Cor 5, Paul is instructing the church how to deal with the sin of a member that has had a sexual relation with his father's wife, telling them to deliver such an one unto Satan, for the destruction of the flesh, "that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus".

 

[Blik]

To be forgiven of sins is only a part of what God does. The Bible states that ”while we were yet sinners” God loved us. According to many, that is impossible.

I understand the difficulty of parsing the truth of Scripture. The problem is that too many see contradictions and simply decide to believe one or the other based on feelings. Denominations and cults have been invented by these feelings . We are not to let emotions be our guide, but the pure word of God. We are to live by every word that proceeded from the mouth of God, and not by picking and choosing what makes us feel good, or coincides with human logic.

If you think for one minute that God has ever made a mistake in choosing who to save, then you have a ways to go. No one can know they are saved according to those who contend ”WE” must maintain it. How can we maintain what we cannot even begin?

This is all so true. If we understood all that God does for us we would be in heaven.

But what we are addressing here is whether God forgives us even if we don't repent and ask Him to forgive us, but only that at one time in our life we did that but now rebel. If God does that heaven would be filled with even extreme sinners, we wouldn't be safe there.

 

[Blik]

Heb 10:26-27, These verses have reference to God's judgement upon "his people". verse 30, For wem know him that has said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord, and again, The Lord shall judge his people, verse 31, It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

James 5:18-20, No man can save a soul eternally, only by God's sovereign grace can that happen. Save, according to Greek = deliver. Anyone that teaches the truth to a person, and converts him, has delivered (saved), not eternally, but here in time, that man from the error of his false belief. Death, according to Greek = separation. The converter has separated the converted from believing in a false doctrine.

2 Pet 2:20-22, Once a regenerated person turns away from God due to his lust of the things of this world, he loses his fellowship with God, not his eternal inheritance. 1 Cor 5, Paul is instructing the church how to deal with the sin of a member that has had a sexual relation with his father's wife, telling them to deliver such an one unto Satan, for the destruction of the flesh, "that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus".

These scriptures are wonderful and of course they are truth. They don't answer the question of whether a saved person can later rebel.

 

[Sipsey]

This is all so true. If we understood all that God does for us we would be in heaven.

But what we are addressing here is whether God forgives us even if we don't repent and ask Him to forgive us, but only that at one time in our life we did that but now rebel. If God does that heaven would be filled with even extreme sinners, we wouldn't be safe there.

What did Jesus answer the Disciples when they declared some were leaving?

The book of James contrasts real faith with pretend faith. Satan tries to mimic everything in God’s plan, but it cannot pass the litmus test. Thats why we are commanded to test the Spirits.

“Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:”

 

[luigi]

We are told we can be forgiven for every sin but blasphemy, even for sins we don't know about.

The Sacrificial System was a shadow of Christ. In Leviticus 5:17-18 they were offered forgiveness for sins they weren't aware of committing. Christ gives us forgiveness in a more perfect way. In Psalm 19:12 "Who can discern their own errors? Forgive my hidden faults."

Scripture also states we are to repent. The Lord is aware that we cannot be perfect, we can only repent and give our will to be perfect to the Lord. Can we be forgiven if we will not repent?

Can we be forgiven if we do not will to be perfect, if we don't repent?

1 Peter 4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

I think the definition of charity in 1 Peter 4:8 may actually be love covers a multitude of sins. Something like how the Samaritan loved his neighbor in Luke 10, and thus believed in Christ, the Son of God/Love.

 

[Dino246]

No but I am well aware that you can see problems readily. If you see one your accusing becomes over the moon.

Well, as you seem blind to your own behaviour, someone needs to point it out to you. I get it though; you prefer to shoot the messenger.

 

[Sipsey]

This is all so true. If we understood all that God does for us we would be in heaven.

But what we are addressing here is whether God forgives us even if we don't repent and ask Him to forgive us, but only that at one time in our life we did that but now rebel. If God does that heaven would be filled with even extreme sinners, we wouldn't be safe there.

According to your understanding, if a Christian forgets or purposely does not repent, do they lose their salvation? Is it 1 sin, 2, a small sin or an egregious one? Are they lost till they repent, then saved again, lost again?

Sins post salvation have to do with earthly blessings and loss of rewards in Heaven, not eternity with God. Jesus said that some will be called the ”least” in Heaven.

“Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
How do you account for this verse?

According to you if one does not repent of one sin, they are doomed. This verse talks about those that broke commandments and taught another to do the same-ARE IN HEAVEN.

When you start down this slippery slope of adding to God’s plan, you are blinded to many of the blessings God promises all who believe.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

These scriptures are wonderful and of course they are truth. They don't answer the question of whether a saved person can later rebel.

Common sense will tell us, that we all rebel at times, and must repent, unless you are sin free (which none are)as Christ was.