Calvinists are preaching a false message .

[ForestGreenCook]

Paul says we are predestined to the Adoption. According to Romans 8.23 when is the adoption?

God's adoption was chosen before the foundation of the world. The payment for his adopted was by Jesus on the cross. The final phase of God's adopted children will be when he comes and takes them home.

We use that same pattern to adopt children in this day and time. Notice God did the choosing, not mankind.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Why not ask God to explain to you why your gospel is false? If God COMMANDS all men everywhere to repent, He expects all men everywhere to repent. Which totally NULLIFIES your gospel.

Acts 17:30, The people that Paul is addressing are those that are "in Christ", verse 27-28, We are in Christ and Christ is in us, if we have been born again, Eph 2:5.

Paul is telling all men, that are in Christ, to repent for making idols of gold, silver and stone.

Anytime that God's regenerated children commit a sin, he calls them to repentance.

The natural, unregenerate, man will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, and thinks it to be foolishness, 1 Cor 2:14. The rebirth from a natural man (while he is yet spiritually dead) to a spiritual man is explained in Eph 2.

You still did not explain how the natural man can understand spiritual things.

 

[throughfaith]

Which means the SAME THING, you just don't seem to realize that. The key to learning is to be able to allow God to correct us.



And the earth is 4.5 billion years old. So, what's the need in saying before the foundation? It's a given God is eternal, and all of His eternity is past, present, and future, all at the same time. He lives in our future now, already. The timing of when Jesus was crucified, didn't stop Abraham from being justified by THE PROMISE of his coming. Slain from the foundation of the world means he was slain 4.5 billion years before Mankind was created. But it actually is saying He always knew that a fallen creation would need a perfect sacrifice. God knows all things at all ties, He lives in all-time at the same time.

So, even though it may be hard to grasp before God created the earth, He was living with us in Heaven, thus when the Bible says Jesus was slain, God was already living with us in the future, in Heaven. LOL, I know, it's wild, but it's factual according to the bible.

Let the bible interpret the Bible. Your adding man's philosophy into your reasoning.

 

[throughfaith]

Which means the SAME THING, you just don't seem to realize that. The key to learning is to be able to allow God to correct us.



And the earth is 4.5 billion years old. So, what's the need in saying before the foundation? It's a given God is eternal, and all of His eternity is past, present, and future, all at the same time. He lives in our future now, already. The timing of when Jesus was crucified, didn't stop Abraham from being justified by THE PROMISE of his coming. Slain from the foundation of the world means he was slain 4.5 billion years before Mankind was created. But it actually is saying He always knew that a fallen creation would need a perfect sacrifice. God knows all things at all ties, He lives in all-time at the same time.

So, even though it may be hard to grasp before God created the earth, He was living with us in Heaven, thus when the Bible says Jesus was slain, God was already living with us in the future, in Heaven. LOL, I know, it's wild, but it's factual according to the bible.

If i say things reguarding BEFORE my children were born or FROM they were born ,this is a massive difference . What your doing is reasoning " hmm since God must be this or that ,therefore this verse must mean this " . Calvinism and other faulty systems are built on this type of faulty reasoning. Instead of allowing Gods word to tell us as much as we can understand about God's perspective.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Verse 23 speaks about the "ADOPTION" we have carnal minds because of the fall of mankind, we need to take on Christ and the Spirit is our guide to lead us unto all truths. But what Paul is saying in verse 29 and 30, is that God gave us a way back from the curse of Adam, via the "PREDESTINATED SACRIFICE" of Jess who was slain before the foundations of the world [ever existed] says the book of Revelation. WATCH HOW I DELINIATE THESE FACTS:

Rom. 8:29 For whom he did foreknow(WeLl, God FOREKNOWS all and all things), he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son (Do you GET IT ? God Predestined EVERYONE to be CONFORMED unto Jess Christ with the simple ASKING), that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also calledGod calls EVERY MAN, the bible says so) and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified(God justified us in Jesus Christ), them he also glorified.

The problem is people do not look at other verses to confirm the bible. God states that he would not that ANY SHOULD PERISH, thus God calls all men unto him, and Pau is saying here, God predestined all mankind to be purged from their evil sin nature via the flood of Jesus Christ, then God who foreknew mankind would need to be purged, sent his son to be that once and for all Sacrificial Lamb, whereby all who receive this PURGING can thus be glorified in Christ Jesus.

They wrote these passages in Greek, then translated them into Old English[e]. I understand the KJV style, so it doesn't trip me up, but the reason is I goo about confirming these truths elsewhere in the bible, the essence of the bible shows God could never Predestinate people to Heaven or Hell and be a just God, BUT he could PREDESTINATE a Sacrificial Lamb for us all. So, I know what it means. Likewise, Daniel 7:11 says the Beast will DIE and then be cast into hellfire but Rev. 19:20 says the Beast will be CAST ALIVE into hell, so what gives? Well, Dan. 7:11 says the Beat will be killed and his body Destroyed, THAT IS PRETTY SPECIFIC, so reading Rev. 19:20, I can read between the lines, we know that ALL MEN (even the Anti-Christ/Beast must die one and be JUDGED, he has that right also. In this instance, he is killed, BUT he is never allowed to go to the Grave and sleep, he is cast STRAIGHT INTO HELL, Alive because our Souls never die. So, he is never given the chance to rest in a grave as all the others who will be judged in 1000 years at the Second Resurrection. This is how you gave to look at the bible, you have to work these things out. God did not predestine some to Heaven and some to hell, Paul is saying God predestined us all to be reconciled, but its up to us to ACCEPT the pardon !! Amen.

First of all; What God predestinate will come to pass. It does not require "asking" to make it happen.

Jesus was an offering to God, for God's acceptance, and not to man, for man's acceptance. His offering was for the purpose of paying for the sin dept for all of those that his Father gave him. Jesus accomplished his purpose on the cross, saying "it is finished", and all that he died for have been secured to live with him in heaven, without the lose of one.

You have misinterpreted and misused scriptures in your attempt to prove your theory, which has failed. All scriptures must harmonize, if you are to understand the truths within them.

 

[soberxp]

If i say things reguarding BEFORE my children were born or FROM they were born ,this is a massive difference . What your doing is reasoning " hmm since God must be this or that ,therefore this verse must mean this " . Calvinism and other faulty systems are built on this type of faulty reasoning. Instead of allowing Gods word to tell us as much as we can understand about God's perspective.

However, we should believe that God reinforces his electors with the reins of mystery, and he often miraculously hides the sparks of faith in their hearts. When the time comes, he will rekindle them with the breath of the Holy Spirit.---john calvin

Do you agree?

 

[throughfaith]

However, we should believe that God reinforces his electors with the reins of mystery, and he often miraculously hides the sparks of faith in their hearts. When the time comes, he will rekindle them with the breath of the Holy Spirit.---john calvin

Do you agree?

Disagree. Election is never to salvation.

 

[soberxp]

Disagree. Election is never to salvation.

Okay,but I think The words no problem.

Matthew 22:14
King James Version
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

my understanding Matthew 22:14 that is
God is calling all human and choose few at the same time,cuz The few are chosen that can leading all.

Do you agree?

Hebrews 4:12
King James Version
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[Lanolin]

It could not be any more simple.
God holds everyone responsible. Response - able . Jesus Marvels at peoples ' unbelief ' . God commands all men everywhere to repent. It could not be clearer that Jesus died for all and that all can respond positively to the Gospel.
But Calvinism teaches the exact opposite to the bible . This is a serious issue . One in which should concern us ,as the popularity of Calvinism is currently at its peak ..
What say you?

calvinists actually preach?
lol thats a joke. What they do is talk amongst themselves and consider everyone else hopelessly lost.

 

[Rondonmon]

Let the bible interpret the Bible. Your adding man's philosophy into your reasoning.

No, you just can't keep up with me brother. That's your go-to accusation any time you feel the water is over your head. Always have a counterpoint t you lose a debate brother. Besides, you don't even seem to understand we are arguing the same point, Calvinism is not only worn, it's wrongheaded.

If i say things reguarding BEFORE my children were born or FROM they were born ,this is a massive difference . What your doing is reasoning " hmm since God must be this or that ,therefore this verse must mean this " . Calvinism and other faulty systems are built on this type of faulty reasoning. Instead of allowing Gods word to tell us as much as we can understand about God's perspective.

You nor I have God's Eternal Godhead, so we thus were created, He wasn't created, thus He lives in all time at once, TIME does not constrain God, He was born outside of time (this universe) thus he has no beginning or ending. God created the time-space continuum for us.

I am arguing against Calvinism by the way. Go back and reread my posts.

God Bless

 

[Rondonmon]

First of all; What God predestinate will come to pass. It does not require "asking" to make it happen.

Jesus was an offering to God, for God's acceptance, and not to man, for man's acceptance. His offering was for the purpose of paying for the sin dept for all of those that his Father gave him. Jesus accomplished his purpose on the cross, saying "it is finished", and all that he died for have been secured to live with him in heaven, without the lose of one.

You have misinterpreted and misused scriptures in your attempt to prove your theory, which has failed. All scriptures must harmonize, if you are to understand the truths within them.

Does it require YOU asking God for forgiveness or does God specifically transfer that unto you but no one else? I am waiting on this doozy of an answer because you are BOXED IN sir. Paul is CLEARLY SAYING that God PREDESTINATED us all to reconcile unto Him, but some listen to Satan and refuse that gift of purging. God wants every man to be saved, Paul told you that, yet you persist in saying Paul says God predetermines some men to Heaven and some men to hell, which would make Paul and I guess God a liar since that would mean God doesn't really desire all men to be saved. Yet, you guys never think these things through, and like Calvin, you lead others in error, imho.

Since those two statements can not be reconciled, one has to DIG DEEPER (YEA) and find out the real truth. So, does God desire for every man to be saved, OR does God predetermine some to Heaven and some to hell? OR is it human error? BOOM, it's of course Human error, God can not lie, and since Paul traveled to the 3rd Heaven in Spirit, I believe what he says. So, WHAT GIVES? What gives is Paul is speaking about God's PREDETERMITIVE REASONING, He foresaw that mankind would fall, therefore God predetermined that we would need to be reconciled by a PERFECT SACRIFICE. Thuss he preordained us all to Heaven via the free gift of Salvation. All one has to do is REPENT and ask for Forgiveness, and BELIEVE that Jesus is the Son of the living God.

Now, that is the only thing that FITS, else God via Paul lied about wanting all men to be saved. This ain't hard brother. You guys complicate it by OVERTHINKING or by following MEN'S (Calvin) Traditions like the Pharisees did. READ THE BIBLE, it's all in there.

God Bless

 

[throughfaith]

No, you just can't keep up with me brother. That's your go-to accusation any time you feel the water is over your head. Always have a counterpoint t you lose a debate brother. Besides, you don't even seem to understand we are arguing the same point, Calvinism is not only worn, it's wrongheaded.



You nor I have God's Eternal Godhead, so we thus were created, He wasn't created, thus He lives in all time at once, TIME does not constrain God, He was born outside of time (this universe) thus he has no beginning or ending. God created the time-space continuum for us.

I am arguing against Calvinism by the way. Go back and reread my posts.

God Bless

I know I'm just confirming what has been predestinated according to the bible and its only believers who will be predestinated after they believe to the future conformity/ Adoption. Putting Predestination before people are born is still Calvinism/ arminism.

 

[throughfaith]

No, you just can't keep up with me brother. That's your go-to accusation any time you feel the water is over your head. Always have a counterpoint t you lose a debate brother. Besides, you don't even seem to understand we are arguing the same point, Calvinism is not only worn, it's wrongheaded.



You nor I have God's Eternal Godhead, so we thus were created, He wasn't created, thus He lives in all time at once, TIME does not constrain God, He was born outside of time (this universe) thus he has no beginning or ending. God created the time-space continuum for us.

I am arguing against Calvinism by the way. Go back and reread my posts.

God Bless

I agree God is outside of time. But we know very little beyond this . God predestines those already saved to future glorification. This is Guranteed by the seal of the Holy Spirit. Eph 1.12-13 . Eph 4.30 . Eph 1.5 . Romans 8 .23 ect .

 

[throughfaith]

Okay,but I think The words no problem.

Matthew 22:14
King James Version
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

my understanding Matthew 22:14 that is
God is calling all human and choose few at the same time,cuz The few are chosen that can leading all.

Do you agree?

Hebrews 4:12
King James Version
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Called for what ? Chosen for what ? why do you leap to that conclusion given the context of the actual verse ? Judas was chosen .

 

[throughfaith]

Does it require YOU asking God for forgiveness or does God specifically transfer that unto you but no one else? I am waiting on this doozy of an answer because you are BOXED IN sir. Paul is CLEARLY SAYING that God PREDESTINATED us all to reconcile unto Him, but some listen to Satan and refuse that gift of purging. God wants every man to be saved, Paul told you that, yet you persist in saying Paul says God predetermines some men to Heaven and some men to hell, which would make Paul and I guess God a liar since that would mean God doesn't really desire all men to be saved. Yet, you guys never think these things through, and like Calvin, you lead others in error, imho.

Since those two statements can not be reconciled, one has to DIG DEEPER (YEA) and find out the real truth. So, does God desire for every man to be saved, OR does God predetermine some to Heaven and some to hell? OR is it human error? BOOM, it's of course Human error, God can not lie, and since Paul traveled to the 3rd Heaven in Spirit, I believe what he says. So, WHAT GIVES? What gives is Paul is speaking about God's PREDETERMITIVE REASONING, He foresaw that mankind would fall, therefore God predetermined that we would need to be reconciled by a PERFECT SACRIFICE. Thuss he preordained us all to Heaven via the free gift of Salvation. All one has to do is REPENT and ask for Forgiveness, and BELIEVE that Jesus is the Son of the living God.

Now, that is the only thing that FITS, else God via Paul lied about wanting all men to be saved. This ain't hard brother. You guys complicate it by OVERTHINKING or by following MEN'S (Calvin) Traditions like the Pharisees did. READ THE BIBLE, it's all in there.

God Bless

If we stick to verses that say the word ' Predestined then we will be on the same page possibly. What happens is some go for the ' foreknowledge ' package, which is just an offshoot of Calvinism.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Okay,but I think The words no problem.

Matthew 22:14
King James Version
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

my understanding Matthew 22:14 that is
God is calling all human and choose few at the same time,cuz The few are chosen that can leading all.

Do you agree?

Hebrews 4:12
King James Version
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Many are called to be his elect people, but few are chosen to be revealed the doctrine, by the revelation of the Holy Ghost.

Many enter the wide gate, but few enter the straight gate, Matt 7:13-14

 

[soberxp]

Called for what ? Chosen for what ? why do you leap to that conclusion given the context of the actual verse ? Judas was chosen .

Called for Salvation and called for all human being.
Chosen for guide as Twelve apostles, Paul.etc.

Judas was chosen by Satan,and he repent.what If he didn't hang himself, he could preach the gospel.

Hebrews 4:12
I use this scripture because I try to understand every single scripture two meaning.
One is predestined，
one is mine.

 

[throughfaith]

Called for Salvation and called for all human being.
Chosen for guide as Twelve apostles, Paul.etc.

Judas was chosen by Satan,and he repent.what If he didn't hang himself, he could preach the gospel.

Hebrews 4:12
I use this scripture because I try to understand every single scripture two meaning.
One is predestined，
one is mine.

I have no problem with: 1 ) we are born
2 ) We hear the Gospel
3 ) We believe the Gospel ( or not )
4 ) We are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption.
Number 4 is when we are predestined.

 

[soberxp]

Many are called to be his elect people, but few are chosen to be revealed the doctrine, by the revelation of the Holy Ghost.

Many enter the wide gate, but few enter the straight gate, Matt 7:13-14

Yes,that's what I want to say.I can use chinese very well but not English.sorry.

I enjoy talk with ppl here,cuz we have few bible forum over here,and few ppl talk with bible on forum.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Does it require YOU asking God for forgiveness or does God specifically transfer that unto you but no one else? I am waiting on this doozy of an answer because you are BOXED IN sir. Paul is CLEARLY SAYING that God PREDESTINATED us all to reconcile unto Him, but some listen to Satan and refuse that gift of purging. God wants every man to be saved, Paul told you that, yet you persist in saying Paul says God predetermines some men to Heaven and some men to hell, which would make Paul and I guess God a liar since that would mean God doesn't really desire all men to be saved. Yet, you guys never think these things through, and like Calvin, you lead others in error, imho.

Since those two statements can not be reconciled, one has to DIG DEEPER (YEA) and find out the real truth. So, does God desire for every man to be saved, OR does God predetermine some to Heaven and some to hell? OR is it human error? BOOM, it's of course Human error, God can not lie, and since Paul traveled to the 3rd Heaven in Spirit, I believe what he says. So, WHAT GIVES? What gives is Paul is speaking about God's PREDETERMITIVE REASONING, He foresaw that mankind would fall, therefore God predetermined that we would need to be reconciled by a PERFECT SACRIFICE. Thuss he preordained us all to Heaven via the free gift of Salvation. All one has to do is REPENT and ask for Forgiveness, and BELIEVE that Jesus is the Son of the living God.

Now, that is the only thing that FITS, else God via Paul lied about wanting all men to be saved. This ain't hard brother. You guys complicate it by OVERTHINKING or by following MEN'S (Calvin) Traditions like the Pharisees did. READ THE BIBLE, it's all in there.

God Bless

Jesus died to pay for the sins, in a covenant relationship with God, of those that God gave him. He did not ask them to repent of their sins before he paid for them on the cross, and gave them the inheritance of eternal life.

When his elect are born into this world, they are all totally depraved due to Adam's sin, and sometime in their lifetime, God quickens them to a spiritual life with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Your theory that God loves all mankind and wants to save them all is contrary to the harmony of the scriptures.

Whom the Lord loves, he chastens. Psalms 73:5, They are not in trouble as other men, neither are they "PLAGUED" (Greek =divinely punished) like other men.

Dan 4:35, And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

If God did love all mankind and wanted to save them, then he will.