Calvinism Critiqued
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So jesus contradicted himself? When he said you do not see because you do not believe, And it is the will of God that whever sees and believes.
Rom 10: 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.
Time and time again, We are told we must come.. We come because we believe, we believe because we see.
If we continue in pride. We will never believe, and never see, thus never come, no matter how Hard God calls (many are called few are chosen) and never be saved.
Rom 10: 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.
Time and time again, We are told we must come.. We come because we believe, we believe because we see.
If we continue in pride. We will never believe, and never see, thus never come, no matter how Hard God calls (many are called few are chosen) and never be saved.
No my friend. His election was not based upon the actions of people. Whom He foreknew, He predestined. No what He foreknew. God foreknew people, not their actions. We see in Acts 10:34 and Romans 2:11 that God does not show favoritism. Yet, according to your view, God elected those He foreknew would receive His grace. That has Him playing favorites, a clear contradiction of Acts 10:34 and Romans 2:11.
Also, God did foreknew those who would receive His grace, because foreknew in the Greek is a verb, and you are making it out to be a noun. God foreknew those He would save because He actually foreknew them, elected them.
Also, God did foreknew those who would receive His grace, because foreknew in the Greek is a verb, and you are making it out to be a noun. God foreknew those He would save because He actually foreknew them, elected them.
From John 10...
3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."
Clearly referring to His sheep, those He came to die for.
7 So Jesus said to them again, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
"If any enters through Me..." Again, He is referring to His sheep. Jesus came that they, the sheep, may have an abundant life.
11 “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. 12 He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13 He flees because he is a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.
Twice here Jesus says He gives His life for the sheep, not all mankind my friend. He also says He knows them and they know them. This is not omniscience but foreknowing them. He knows all things all peoples by omniscience, but His own sheep intimately, by foreknowing them. Adam knew Eve, not by mental assent, but making love to her(the NIV uses made love with Eve), showing an intimate relationship. God knows us in an intimate relationship.
Later on, the Jews confront Jesus, wanting Him to tell them “How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”(vs 24) Then He said 26 “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. 26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
Those who die lost die lost because they are not of His sheep. He said He gives them eternal life, they will never perish, and no one will be able to snatch them out of His Father's hand.
Not everyone is a sheep my friend. One is not a goat when they are lost and becomes a sheep after they are saved. Those who are saved, were sheep all along, just sheep that had went astray.(Matthew 18:12-14, Isaiah 53:6)
3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."
Clearly referring to His sheep, those He came to die for.
7 So Jesus said to them again, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
"If any enters through Me..." Again, He is referring to His sheep. Jesus came that they, the sheep, may have an abundant life.
11 “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. 12 He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13 He flees because he is a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.
Twice here Jesus says He gives His life for the sheep, not all mankind my friend. He also says He knows them and they know them. This is not omniscience but foreknowing them. He knows all things all peoples by omniscience, but His own sheep intimately, by foreknowing them. Adam knew Eve, not by mental assent, but making love to her(the NIV uses made love with Eve), showing an intimate relationship. God knows us in an intimate relationship.
Later on, the Jews confront Jesus, wanting Him to tell them “How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”(vs 24) Then He said 26 “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. 26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
Those who die lost die lost because they are not of His sheep. He said He gives them eternal life, they will never perish, and no one will be able to snatch them out of His Father's hand.
Not everyone is a sheep my friend. One is not a goat when they are lost and becomes a sheep after they are saved. Those who are saved, were sheep all along, just sheep that had went astray.(Matthew 18:12-14, Isaiah 53:6)
Yet, person's having a mental assent to the fact they sin means absolutely nothing. It doesn't mean one is saved via admittance to this, which is the doctrine of easy-believe-ism. That is what EG is saying in general.
Any fool knows they sin.
Yes, to deny being a sinner is pride but admitting it isn't salvific either. That is just one of the questions the easy-believe-ism sinners prayer people check off their "salvation list." If the person jumps through all the hoops of their questions just right *presto* they're popishly declared saved, on their way to heaven, go from point A to point Z.
"You did this believe and repent thing once, remember? Don't worry about anything else that happens, like evidence of real conversion. Just skip the context of 1 John and "accept" 1 John 5:13 out of context every time you're convicted that you're really lost!"
#falsegospel
#fakegospel
Any fool knows they sin.
Yes, to deny being a sinner is pride but admitting it isn't salvific either. That is just one of the questions the easy-believe-ism sinners prayer people check off their "salvation list." If the person jumps through all the hoops of their questions just right *presto* they're popishly declared saved, on their way to heaven, go from point A to point Z.
"You did this believe and repent thing once, remember? Don't worry about anything else that happens, like evidence of real conversion. Just skip the context of 1 John and "accept" 1 John 5:13 out of context every time you're convicted that you're really lost!"
#falsegospel
#fakegospel
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Again, it is called pride.
The HS job is to break our pride by revealing to us the truth. Jesus attempted to do this to many while he was here. And many still did not see it, Because their pride refused to allow them to.
Thanks be to God that Peter. Paul and others allowed God to humble them without getting mad..
The HS job is to break our pride by revealing to us the truth. Jesus attempted to do this to many while he was here. And many still did not see it, Because their pride refused to allow them to.
Thanks be to God that Peter. Paul and others allowed God to humble them without getting mad..
eternally-gratefull <sic> made this comment:
"Yet by defenition you preach God favored you over other people. By allowing you to see, abd not allowing them to see."
The above is so full of theological errors and Romans 9:20ism it's sad to behold!
First, there is the ridicule from EG that God "favored" SnA over another.
OK. Let's deal with that Biblically:
What may I ask is the definition of "favor?" It is "grace." God does grace some people and chooses not to grace others. That is a fact.
It isn't God "being a respecter of persons!!" as will be the next, out of context argument showing this text too is misunderstood and misused.
Most anti-Calvinists practice this. That is a different context, so please stop misusing texts to support your error!
Why though does God show grace in this way to some? God grants his electing mercy and grace based on NOTHING in the one to whom he bestows it. EG is incorrect in decrying how God grants grace to one and not another because he fails to think it through and apply Biblical truth. He is pointing the finger in ridicule at SnA as if SnA had something to do with this himself. He did not.
Note 1 Corinthians 1:25-31; Romans 9:11ff, Romans 9:16, 2 Timothy 1:9 &c as it is all of God's grace ad nothing in man to Soli Deo Gloria.
Next point:
Now to the decrying Bible rejecting "God allowing you to see and not allowing others to see!" Um. Scripture declares this truth in many places. What we have here is natural man calling God unfair which means "unjust."
Yep.
One biblical proof God does this in his Sovereignty?
Matthew 11:25-30. Read the entire portion, don't divorce 28-30 from the context. Thank you.
"Yet by defenition you preach God favored you over other people. By allowing you to see, abd not allowing them to see."
The above is so full of theological errors and Romans 9:20ism it's sad to behold!
First, there is the ridicule from EG that God "favored" SnA over another.
OK. Let's deal with that Biblically:
What may I ask is the definition of "favor?" It is "grace." God does grace some people and chooses not to grace others. That is a fact.
It isn't God "being a respecter of persons!!" as will be the next, out of context argument showing this text too is misunderstood and misused.
Most anti-Calvinists practice this. That is a different context, so please stop misusing texts to support your error!
Why though does God show grace in this way to some? God grants his electing mercy and grace based on NOTHING in the one to whom he bestows it. EG is incorrect in decrying how God grants grace to one and not another because he fails to think it through and apply Biblical truth. He is pointing the finger in ridicule at SnA as if SnA had something to do with this himself. He did not.
Note 1 Corinthians 1:25-31; Romans 9:11ff, Romans 9:16, 2 Timothy 1:9 &c as it is all of God's grace ad nothing in man to Soli Deo Gloria.
Next point:
Now to the decrying Bible rejecting "God allowing you to see and not allowing others to see!" Um. Scripture declares this truth in many places. What we have here is natural man calling God unfair which means "unjust."
Yep.
One biblical proof God does this in his Sovereignty?
Matthew 11:25-30. Read the entire portion, don't divorce 28-30 from the context. Thank you.
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Yup. Well said.
I come from the mean streets and I will let you know: Everyone admits they sin. Not many people who are locked up think they are good wonderful people
I come from the mean streets and I will let you know: Everyone admits they sin. Not many people who are locked up think they are good wonderful people
https://www.truthforlife.org/broadcasts/latest-aired/
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Well you can spin it all you want (thats the way I see it anyway)
God chose you
He did not chose someone else
That makes you special since both of you deserved hell.
Imagine if a father had 2 kids. Both whom rebelled against him, both who wanted nothing to do with him, And both who rejected him.
The father had the ability to save them both because he loved them both. But he chose one over the other just because. So he pays the ones debt so he can get out of prison, but leave the other there with no hope of ever getting out. Everyone who hears this story is going to look at the father and say he respected the one child over the other. Because he chose one, and not the other. And not only this, he did not even give the one child a chance to get out He left him their to rot. His excuse, He deserved it anyway.
On the other hand, The father has the ability to save both, He pays the price for both. Yet only one child recieves his grace gift. The other rejects it. The father is vindicated. And no one ever again will doubt that fathers true love, Because he paid the penalty for both. The one ended up never getting out of prison, But that was his fault, not the fathers.
This is my issue with calvanism, or as some call it fatalism. It does not show the true love of God. And will not put to death the claims against him for eternity. It leaves the door wide open for another rebellion. Because he became a respector of persons.
God chose you
He did not chose someone else
That makes you special since both of you deserved hell.
Imagine if a father had 2 kids. Both whom rebelled against him, both who wanted nothing to do with him, And both who rejected him.
The father had the ability to save them both because he loved them both. But he chose one over the other just because. So he pays the ones debt so he can get out of prison, but leave the other there with no hope of ever getting out. Everyone who hears this story is going to look at the father and say he respected the one child over the other. Because he chose one, and not the other. And not only this, he did not even give the one child a chance to get out He left him their to rot. His excuse, He deserved it anyway.
On the other hand, The father has the ability to save both, He pays the price for both. Yet only one child recieves his grace gift. The other rejects it. The father is vindicated. And no one ever again will doubt that fathers true love, Because he paid the penalty for both. The one ended up never getting out of prison, But that was his fault, not the fathers.
This is my issue with calvanism, or as some call it fatalism. It does not show the true love of God. And will not put to death the claims against him for eternity. It leaves the door wide open for another rebellion. Because he became a respector of persons.
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G-d would not have made ...free will... available if He planned to hand pick those who would be selected.
He would not have provided unlimited sin forgiveness if He had plans to pre-determine salvation allocation.
Applying common sense...He would not have asked Christ to sacrifice His life on the cross if....pre-selection was part of G-d's plan, et al.
He would not have provided unlimited sin forgiveness if He had plans to pre-determine salvation allocation.
Applying common sense...He would not have asked Christ to sacrifice His life on the cross if....pre-selection was part of G-d's plan, et al.
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Mark 7:21-23 - “For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.” (c.f. Matthew 15:19)
Looks like total depravity to me.
Total depravity is about how God sees us, not how we see ourselves
Looks like total depravity to me.
Total depravity is about how God sees us, not how we see ourselves
And ALL can be sheep if all will repent and believe.
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. (Isa 53:6)
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one (Rom 3:10)
Because all human beings are sinners, all need to be saved. And God invites all to be saved. Therefore He cannot elect some for salvation without violating His own character.
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. (Isa 43:22)
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. (Isa 53:6)
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one (Rom 3:10)
Because all human beings are sinners, all need to be saved. And God invites all to be saved. Therefore He cannot elect some for salvation without violating His own character.
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. (Isa 43:22)
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